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The Streamers add-on was already mid, why was it nerfed?!
Streamers is an add-on from Springtrap that reduced the time it takes to travel through doors from 3 seconds to 2.4 seconds (20%), it was a nice QoL feel add-on, but nothing that would really have a huge impact on the match, why was it nerfed to 2.55 seconds (15%)? Is there a reason or is this one of those random nerfs?
Comments
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it seems the devs went back to their old ways and just nerfed all his most popular addons (bonnie’s guitar strings, streamers, and security badge) and did a small buff to 3 addons that won’t do much. I understand bonnie’s guitar strings getting nerfed but the other 2 make no sense.
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because bhvr doesn't know how to balance killers addons anymore, they only see quantity, if people use a lot, it means it's op for them, simple as that.
the effect may be mediocre, but if there are a lot of people using it, they'll nerf it.
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Yes old ways nerf the popular things and thats it to force more diversity.
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if they want to force more diversity then they should’ve done more substantial buffs to his other addons to alleviate the massive nerf his best addons got.
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To be fair, they also completely failed with the Bonnies Guitar Strings-Nerf. Nobody cares about the Undetectable as long as this Add On provides perfect Gen Progress information with a map-wide teleport.
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just to correct some misinformation there - whilst data on addons tells us what is preferred there's a bit more to it than "it's used a lot therefore needs a nerf" you have to take into consideration the kill rate with that addon used, and compare it to other addons used with it. What we're seeing with this particular addon is that it increased kill rates by a pretty high percentage, more than 6% which does show that there's likely some issue with it. So whilst you might feel the effect is mediocre, the reality is that something is more problematic than it appears at first glance.
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Thanks for the answer, but if that's the logic, I can think of several addons that can increase the kill rate and without needing to see the official stats, like for example, the purple addon of the ghoul to block window while in the rage, I still wonder how this addon still exists, I'm sure this addon increases the killer rates.
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If only the people responsible for such decissions would come to the conclusion, that the high killrates with this addon is probably due to the fact that decent killers pick this particular addon because the others are just not worth it, and not the fact that its overly broken.
Its the same story with every killer over and over again. Addons get gutted because of high killrates with it but ignoring the fact that other addons are just hot garbage.
Im pretty sure by that logic of nerfing addons even the most uncreative addon every killer has (add hermorrhage and mangled for 60 seconds) would get nerfed to the ground if all the springtrap killers decide to pick them.
All i can wish for is that at some point the team responsible for these changes will learn that the killer needs decent alternatives in order to make decisions based on kill and pickrate.
tldr: Add 2 good addons to springtrap while the the others are mediocre / bad - wonders why springtrap only picks these 2 addons. Thats a meme potential.
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They are really destroying the "addon variety and transformative nature" everyone talked up on the ptb. Now most of his addons are gonna be mid. (Wonder how often that happens) i can agree guitar strings because the addon is just straight busted but badge and streamers? Not really.
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So i take it a double range addon nerf for pyramid head is in order? Because I mean i see those addons used a lot because the others aren't the best so.
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I wish the same design philosophy applied to toolboxes. Some toolbox/addon combinations provide way way more value than other toolbox/addon combinations, but we still haven’t gotten a toolbox update similar to the giant medkit update.
And can the same design philosophy apply to medkit addons, like syringes, gel dressings, and styptics? They don’t increase escape rate, way more than the other medkit addons?
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Is this for all mmr or high mmr?
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I would guess Streamers got nerfed because of proxy-camping.
Security Badge, because you could have on-demand 30 seconds of Undetectable.
And Bonnie's Strings are obvious.
I would revert Streamers and instead add a small anti-camp mechanic (blocking doors near hooked survivors as a hard counter or slowing down travelling to those doors as an alternative)
Bonnie's Guitar Strings are easily the most obvious, swap them with Iri Remnant's effect. The addons stay the same rarity, just the effects swap.
And Security Badge got nerfed rightfully imo.
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BTW, how is no one talking about these 2:
This is pretty impactful.
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The problem is, we're now going to use foxys hook again, but it's going to be nerfed again because by bhvr's logic.
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I don't think so.
It's still not as strong as the PTB version, and they saw the second version was too little, so they landed in the middle.
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I hope this is the case.
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I knew the badge was too good to be true :(
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are there any basekit changes for springtrap planned?
cameras are useless and he has no viable way to deal with people using doors or even KNOW what is going on around the map because they can just randomly TP and you have no idea where they are.
this is the only killer I genuinely feel lost as because I cant keep track of survivor's positions around the map even generally when there's always a possibility they can just disappear through the door system.
This is not fun.
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I've farmed a few ragequits this week thanks to the camera in solo q. I don't think cameras are useless, i just think people aren't even bothering in the first place.
I made a risky move and revealed a Glitchtrap at the start of the game and he DCd. world's fastest Springtrap speed run baby!
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I mean, yeah, you can go out of your way to use them to break him out of stealth or give your teammate wallhack, but this is just not worth it most of the time.
most of the time Im facing springtrap and using cameras I catch myself realizing I'd be doing more for the team if I was just doing gens instead.
most of the time he just walks right into the gen without utilizing stealth and otherwise people can either see him or i just have no idea when I need to be using cameras.
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I don't often use addons on any killer, so it doesn't affect me much. However, I find it unsurprising that Bonnie's guitar strings and security badge were nerfed. Those add-ons needed a slight nerf (imo).
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I feel like your too worried about it. its a uncommon addon and 15% is still feel good. Springtrap has some of the best designed add-ons EVER for a killer. i wish PH and Nemy got a hard add-on rework to be more like him. the difference between 2.55 and 2.4 is so little, i really dont care, as for bonnie's guitar strings, it still does what it does, they didnt gut anything. they just, made it a little weaker. im excited to use the party hat and the CPU now, though!!
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used a lot - but do they massively increase the kill rate of the killer? It's not just a simple "it's used a lot" which is what I'm trying to explain.
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exactly this, we went for the middle ground between the two of them.
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Badge was probably hit so it wouldn't just be paired with guitar strings to undo its downside.
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There's no current plans for any base changes, for right now we're happy with what we're seeing - it will still be monitored and see how that develops.
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I know but this is easier way of getting same or simular effect just less work (and it works) thats it.
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so is that intended that cameras are not worth using most of the time and that springtrap isnt meant to have a realistic chance of punishing people for using doors or simply knowing they used them?
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It's probably still good at 15%. Not a big deal imo
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Kinda find it a bit hard to believe that based on kill rate and not just pick rates. Most recent proposed changes to Artist add-ons nerfs that got rolled back with the only complaint I've seen to not go through with them was due to her having no other add-ons even worth using. Pyramid Head and maybe a few other killers are in a similar spot with so few add-ons even worth using. And there's Blights busted add-ons that took years to nerf with the constant complaints it was having.
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So when is pyramid head going to get his addons changed to actually have useful things? He still has the worst iri addons by a mile, and everything other than range addons or duration of paths is completely pointless.
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High usage rate and probably high killrate is what got it nerfed is my guess
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My guess is all
Post edited by Orvarihusklumpen on0 -
Thank you for replying to our questions, Mandy. I appreciate it. I'm glad there are no plans to change him at the moment because he does feel like a well-balanced killer. He's fun to play as and against, in my opinion. You guys did a great job with him.
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From the Wiki:
- Killer Exit Door: 1 second
- Killer Enter Door: 2 seconds
- Killer Teleport: 3 seconds
It takes a total of 6 seconds, + however long it takes to choose a door to teleport to, for a player to use this part of Springtraps Power. AFAIK the Streamers add-on only affects the 3 second Teleport part of the power, Meaning that if you Enter a door, immediately choose another without wasting any time, and exit, the whole process would take 5.4 seconds with the previous 20% faster streamers add-on, and now they've increased that to 5.55 seconds, because obviously… the difference of 0.15 seconds was making the killer too oppressive(?)
I don't really believe saving .6 seconds on the 6 second door teleporting process was really the reason the killers using the add-on were getting a higher kill count. I could believe it if it also reduced the timing of the entering and exiting parts of the power, because that would drop it to 4.8 seconds total, but we would need someone to confirm that it affected those parts as well to further justify this change.
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Wouldnt it be better to improve sub par add ons instead of just crushing the ones that improve kill rate? So there are other viable options?
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as a person who was using endo CPU with badge it wasn't really worth and might be worth now? but at this point i might as well not use add-ons
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The only useful combo left is Endo CPU + Brutal Strength + Foxy's Hook, where the entire strategy is to try to make loops unsafe, by throwing an axe near a dropped pallet, then trying to zone the survivor on the opposite side of the pallet, so the killer can enter the axe AoE, quickly break the pallet, then use the Foxy's Hook haste to chase the survivor.
Guitar strings are so awful at 0% undetectable duration. If they were 25% duration (so they could combo with the badge to be 50%), then it would be worth using, but I feel like undetectable is supposed to be so important to this killer's identity, that limiting it to 0-5 seconds is just defeating the entire point of playing this character.
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I hated the Endo CPU add-on simply because it takes 1 second to wind up and throw the axe, and 2 seconds to cooldown afterwards before you can strike or interact with anything. Base gen kick/pallet break speed is 2.34 seconds, with brutal strength you can reduce this to 1.8, but unless the axe was already deployed and in the environment near the pallet or gen, you would add 3 seconds onto your break, which makes it useful only in niche situations. Basically, no matter how much they buffed it, it's still in that niche spot of usefulness. Much like Billy, Bubba, and Demogorgon, if you don't already have their powers charged so you can break a pallet faster, then it's a waste to spend time charging up, vs. just kicking it.
I understand keeping the killer from attacking for the 2 second cooldown after throwing the axe, but the only way Endo CPU will be useful is if you've already thrown the axe before reaching your kick target, or the devs change it to at least allow Springtrap to interact with Pallets, Gens, etc right after throwing the axe. Even then however, throwing alone still adds 1 second with the wind up, and Endo CPU right now paired with Brutal strength can only reduce that interaction to 0.936 seconds, totaling the whole thing to 1.936 seconds, and thus still making it slower than just kicking with BS equipped.
What I'm saying is, Endo CPU is niche and underpowered to the point of being worthless as it is currently, especially compared to simply breaking a pallet normally or with a perk. To me, the best change they could make for it would be to empower the axe to break stuff it's thrown at. Given that you would still have a 2 second cooldown + 7 seconds before you can reclaim the axe… I don't think this would make it overpowered, and it would be far more useful/less niche than it currently is.
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It doesn't make sense on paper, but it does in practice (along with killers like BIlly using saw to break pallets). Until you actually go to break the pallet, your still a risk to the survivor. If they pre-run, you could just leave the pallet unbroken. With killers like Billy and Bubba, a charged saw could quickly be used to down a SURVIVOR rather than the pallet.
With the springtrap addon... just chuck the axe while looping and pressuring the survivor. You dont have to just stand still in front of the pallet to do that.
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So now it's confirmed Springtrap zoning speed while holding an Axe is not problem and won't get nerfed for a long time. Survivors aint gonna like this.
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Taking bets rn it's gets nerfed again being at 7% it'll still make a huge difference as it did 10% now that it's at 6 seconds again makes it way better
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Nice! What about blight and nurse then? Don't some addons perform better? (speeds blight, mangled nurse)
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Did the data include the time springtrap was invisible when coming out? Maybe the kill rate was higher because of another addon/perk that was frequently used alongside this one?
"So whilst you might feel the effect is mediocre, the reality is that something is more problematic than it appears at first glance." - so you are not sure exactly why the kill rate with this addon was higher, just saw a change in stats and proceed to nerf it no questions asked?
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What bothers me about the rationale about nerfing addons as described by Mandy is it doesn't seem to always be applied.
In what world is Myers killrate with Tombstone Piece not way higher than without it and how has it been left in the state it's in? I know this seems like a petty complaint but it really bothers me how (imo) quality of life addons like streamers get nerfed but game breakingly frustrating addons that can take players out of the game without a single hook get left unchanged.
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I think it is the P2W nature for killer. People will buy Myers to do that. Imagine if survivors had a DLC that can bypass a huge part of their objectives?
I never believe anything devs say about stats or kill rates because of that.
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I can see what you mean, but i can also understand players.
This addon is strong we nerf it, ok, this other addon is bad lets make it a little less bad. Not worth.
I really think it would help if bad/useless addons become decent to compensate. I would say quite a few players see this as good addons will be nerfed, really bad addons are always going to be bad. Bad in one hand and bad in the other.
Like this nemi addon that is just beyond bad.
Or if help wanted in addition to be a "learning addon" also make axe aura 15% bigger or something like that.
If killer had no ""bad addons"" (i dont mean OP just not awfull) it would hurt less (Not just STrap in this case)
(Just a few examples)
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Surprised you didnt go with pyramid heads entire existance lol
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You don’t believe the kill rate stats because of…a Myers add-on? What?
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