Add in game voice chat. Balance accordingly
Literally just do the title.
Everyone has SWF level info and coordination, then rework anything that needs reworking as a result of this, then Nerf survivors/Buff Killers to counterbalance the change.
Trying to avoid the issue of VC without removing SWF and the pregame survivor chat is futile, so instead just balance with the assumption that it is there
Comments
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Sigh this sin't going to work because as has been pointed out no one will use it in place of Discord etc because they don't want to listen to a screaming 12 year old. Then you've got the friends just playing around and talking about gf's, work etc who won't use it.
The well if you balance around it then buff killers works right up to the point you forge that the solo's aree on the only one possibly using it and they get screwed.
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Literally just do the title.Everyone has SWF level info and coordination, then rework anything that needs reworking as a result of this, then Nerf survivors/Buff Killers to counterbalance the change.
Trying to avoid the issue of VC without removing SWF and the pregame survivor chat is futile, so instead just balance with the assumption that it is there
No (do I really need to say more?)
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@powerbats said:
Sigh this sin't going to work because as has been pointed out no one will use it in place of Discord etc because they don't want to listen to a screaming 12 year old. Then you've got the friends just playing around and talking about gf's, work etc who won't use it.The well if you balance around it then buff killers works right up to the point you forge that the solo's aree on the only one possibly using it and they get screwed.
Oh yeah also have some kind of text option for them. Maybe more if needed.
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@Luigifan64 said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Literally just do the title.Everyone has SWF level info and coordination, then rework anything that needs reworking as a result of this, then Nerf survivors/Buff Killers to counterbalance the change.
Trying to avoid the issue of VC without removing SWF and the pregame survivor chat is futile, so instead just balance with the assumption that it is there
No (do I really need to say more?)
You absolutely need to say more. If I can't take the advice and use it to either A: Form a proper rebuttal, B: Tweak the solution to address it's issues or C: Make an alternate suggestion to a similar effect that doesn't have the same issues, then you haven't said enough.
If I am able to do A then either you are wrong, right but aren't sure why (which still isn't helpful) or you still need to say more
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@powerbats said:
The well if you balance around it then buff killers works right up to the point you forge that the solo's aree on the only one possibly using it and they get screwed.I don't know what this is trying to say. Can you reword it/check for typo's please?
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@powerbats said:
Sigh this sin't going to work because as has been pointed out no one will use it in place of Discord etc because they don't want to listen to a screaming 12 year old. Then you've got the friends just playing around and talking about gf's, work etc who won't use it.
Who care's if they aren't using it in place of discord? A game balanced with in game VC should work just as well with 3rd party VC.
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Literally just do the title.Everyone has SWF level info and coordination, then rework anything that needs reworking as a result of this, then Nerf survivors/Buff Killers to counterbalance the change.
Trying to avoid the issue of VC without removing SWF and the pregame survivor chat is futile, so instead just balance with the assumption that it is there
This wouldn't work, this is because there is no guarantee that a group of friends will want to use a VC with the solo to begin with. Some friend groups would rather just have a casual conversation as they play the game rather than have someone scream about what killer is being used or what they are doing and in return you end up causing certain perks which solo's occasionally use (example : kindred) to become obsolete. The main thing to keep in mind is that you don't know the random person you're going into a match with, you could hope that it will be a pleasant experience or it could just be a horrible match with nothing but complaints, slurs, screaming, etc. This is obviously worse case scenario, but I'm just not so sure about how many people are all that excited about the idea of having an ingame voice chat.
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@vampire_toothy said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Literally just do the title.Everyone has SWF level info and coordination, then rework anything that needs reworking as a result of this, then Nerf survivors/Buff Killers to counterbalance the change.
Trying to avoid the issue of VC without removing SWF and the pregame survivor chat is futile, so instead just balance with the assumption that it is there
This wouldn't work, this is because there is no guarantee that a group of friends will want to use a VC with the solo to begin with. Some friend groups would rather just have a casual conversation as they play the game rather than have someone scream about what killer is being used or what they are doing and in return you end up causing certain perks which solo's occasionally use (example : kindred) to become obsolete. The main thing to keep in mind is that you don't know the random person you're going into a match with, you could hope that it will be a pleasant experience or it could just be a horrible match with nothing but complaints, slurs, screaming, etc. This is obviously worse case scenario, but I'm just not so sure about how many people are all that excited about the idea of having an ingame voice chat.
Honestly I consider this the lesser of 2 evils.
In a perfect world we would be able to have SWF groups who never share info and the game would always be 100% balanced without the need for VC because friends weren't communicating with each other.
But that's not happening, so we can instead do the next best thing and give everyone the same tools so we can properly balance in accordance with reality.
Everyone having VC is bad sure. But only SOME people having VC is much worse.
Also perks made obsolete can be reworked to account for changes
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Honestly I consider this the lesser of 2 evils.In a perfect world we would be able to have SWF groups who never share info and the game would always be 100% balanced without the need for VC because friends weren't communicating with each other.
But that's not happening, so we can instead do the next best thing and give everyone the same tools so we can properly balance in accordance with reality.
Everyone having VC is bad sure. But only SOME people having VC is much worse.
Also perks made obsolete can be reworked to account for changes
You do have an interesting point, but it is a bit harder to sell me on the "give everyone VC". If there ever were to be one in the game I'd much rather it be a preference that anyone can have on or off - though odds are that most groups probably wouldn't bother to use the ingame chat when they already have programs like discord.
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The important part isn't that it is used. Anyone using discord would be able to ignore the inclusion of in game chat and it wouldn't matter. The important part is that we can use an in game VC to let us balance with it in mind.vampire_toothy said:@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Honestly I consider this the lesser of 2 evils.In a perfect world we would be able to have SWF groups who never share info and the game would always be 100% balanced without the need for VC because friends weren't communicating with each other.
But that's not happening, so we can instead do the next best thing and give everyone the same tools so we can properly balance in accordance with reality.
Everyone having VC is bad sure. But only SOME people having VC is much worse.
Also perks made obsolete can be reworked to account for changes
You do have an interesting point, but it is a bit harder to sell me on the "give everyone VC". If there ever were to be one in the game I'd much rather it be a preference that anyone can have on or off - though odds are that most groups probably wouldn't bother to use the ingame chat when they already have programs like discord.
Vc isn't an unfair advantage if everyone has it0 -
I would probably turn it off. I've tried using voice chat in all sorts of games and my experience is almost always the same. You get a mix of people playing vaguely public domain sounding rap music in the background (but refusing to use push to talk), the guy who's way too young to play the game arguing with his mother about cleaning his room or playing five more minutes, and then the guy who's your best friend until they die and they start blaming everyone else and throwing around insults like they're going out of style. And then you've got people like me who have been down that road before and want no part of it so we just turn it off, or people who don't have microphones to begin with.
Then you're left with a group of people who might not have voice chat enabled and others that you'll probably end up muting, and at that point the entire purpose of having voice chat is lost. If you can't communicate with half your team you are not going to be on the same level as those super coordinated groups anyway. They're all friends, they (presumably) don't hate each other and mute each other, they can all trust each other to do their part and they know each other's strengths and weaknesses.
Voice chat alone is not what makes it powerful. What makes it powerful is when there's a coordinated team, voice chat or not. If everyone's working at maximum efficiency the killer is going to have a rough time. Sticking a couple of complete strangers together and expecting them to be just as coordinated is very optimistic, but it wouldn't be the same.
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@Peanits said:
I would probably turn it off. I've tried using voice chat in all sorts of games and my experience is almost always the same. You get a mix of people playing vaguely public domain sounding rap music in the background (but refusing to use push to talk), the guy who's way too young to play the game arguing with his mother about cleaning his room or playing five more minutes, and then the guy who's your best friend until they die and they start blaming everyone else and throwing around insults like they're going out of style. And then you've got people like me who have been down that road before and want no part of it so we just turn it off, or people who don't have microphones to begin with.So much this. That's also my experience in most games with VOIP.
I'd have disabled this feature so bad if it ended up in DbD. It doesn't belong here.0 -
@powerbats said:
Sigh this sin't going to work because as has been pointed out no one will use it in place of Discord etc because they don't want to listen to a screaming 12 year old. Then you've got the friends just playing around and talking about gf's, work etc who won't use it.The well if you balance around it then buff killers works right up to the point you forge that the solo's aree on the only one possibly using it and they get screwed.
The point is that yuo need to have the ability to use ingame voice comms (even if you dont) such that the game can be balanced around them.
The current situation is not acceptable
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I love the "just chatting" excuse.
Inbetween "just chatting" there will ALWAYS be the coordinating messages like "im chased, lost him, OMGHESONMEGETAWAYGETAWAYIMHAVINGASEIZURELIKEAYOUTUBERHERE"
Or you hear their chase music theough the mic or whatever.
anyone disagreeing with this is a liar.4 -
@poopman said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Literally just do the title.Here's the thing. I agree 100% and I have asked the devs on several occasions.
They always gave me the same ridiculous answer:
"We can't do that because it would break the immersion".That makes 0 sense.
You can just make it optional - Heck, turn it OFF by default if you have to, just make it a toggle option.But oh.. they always ignored that argument, they kept going back to: "It would break immersion"
Seriously, they told me that argument 10+ times. I'm not joking.
That's the only argument they have against it and they'll always use it.Because everyone knows people can't talk to each other in real life...
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About voice chat, not all players are able to speak English fluently, and DbD is not a class of foreign language. About written chat, via consolle it's impossible. Moreover, I agree with @Peanits: chats are a simple mean, but the team is born elsewhere, with friendship and many hours of shared practice: random people don't become a team because of a chat.The balance solution to fill the gap between SWF and killers, killers and solos, is here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/46538/definitive-solution-to-bridge-the-swf-killer-solos-gaps
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People who disagree with this keep saying that there may be some survivors who won't use VC and therefore get screwed. So it's better that the solo killer get screwed by SWF than for the 4 players on a team? At least they have the option to just use in game chat to bring back the balance. What can the killers do when against SWF who use comms which aren't balanced?
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@Stealth no don't! It's a trap!0
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@Master said:
@powerbats said:
Sigh this sin't going to work because as has been pointed out no one will use it in place of Discord etc because they don't want to listen to a screaming 12 year old. Then you've got the friends just playing around and talking about gf's, work etc who won't use it.The well if you balance around it then buff killers works right up to the point you forge that the solo's aree on the only one possibly using it and they get screwed.
The point is that yuo need to have the ability to use ingame voice comms (even if you dont) such that the game can be balanced around them.
The current situation is not acceptable
Yes balance around something that people might not use, that's like adding in a perk and balancing the entire game around that perk. But hey people might use that perk so therefore we must balance as if they're using said perk.
It doesn't matter if it'll totally destroy solo game balance as long as killers get their way and screw over 30% of the playerbase.
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I'm not a Trapper: I'm Myers and I'm looking at you from nowhere. XDNuclearBurrito2 said:@Stealth no don't! It's a trap!
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Funny you say that because this is from last year and is hilarious because I'd spawned up there and stalked well into Evil II and lamost Evil III before they moved.
There was 3 originally on the gen but as soon as i got into Evil II 1 person left then about 1/4 through stalk shown the 2nd person left.
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Instead of generalizing 'Balance Around Voice Chat' please, give even 1 example of 'balance' around voice chat? Voice Chat isn't a function or some type of mechanic that can be tweaked and altered in any way. It is either there, or it's not.
Some might say, well have perks that can affect voice communication in game in some way. Maybe after the 1st hook the player loses the ability to use voice chat (killer cut out their voice box idk). Wow, balance . . .
Wait . . . Let's just use Discord.
I am willing to hear any actual 'balance' based around voice chat that players won't simply revert to using Discord because they don't want any type of balance.
As others have said, voice communication is only as powerful as the survivors make it. A bunch of randoms with voice chat would probably be trash talking one another 90% of the time, making annoying noises or talking about non game related things.
SWF is only OP when used by organized, skillful and knowledgeable players. They are a dim a dozen, but the fact they can be that power needs to be balanced within the SWF mechanic in the game. Limiting SWF groups only to unique perk/item/offerings (no player would have access to what other players take into the game) would add great balance to such SWF groups. Those who claim otherwise just want to have access to such OP configurations if they want too use them.
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@TrAiNwReCk said:
Instead of generalizing 'Balance Around Voice Chat' please, give even 1 example of 'balance' around voice chat? Voice Chat isn't a function or some type of mechanic that can be tweaked and altered in any way. It is either there, or it's not.Some might say, well have perks that can affect voice communication in game in some way. Maybe after the 1st hook the player loses the ability to use voice chat (killer cut out their voice box idk). Wow, balance . . .
Wait . . . Let's just use Discord.
I am willing to hear any actual 'balance' based around voice chat that players won't simply revert to using Discord because they don't want any type of balance.
As others have said, voice communication is only as powerful as the survivors make it. A bunch of randoms with voice chat would probably be trash talking one another 90% of the time, making annoying noises or talking about non game related things.
SWF is only OP when used by organized, skillful and knowledgeable players. They are a dim a dozen, but the fact they can be that power needs to be balanced within the SWF mechanic in the game. Limiting SWF groups only to unique perk/item/offerings (no player would have access to what other players take into the game) would add great balance to such SWF groups. Those who claim otherwise just want to have access to such OP configurations if they want too use them.
Balance around VC doesn't mean that you make changes that directly hinder the VC itself, that would be counter productive.
Rather you just take the assumption that survivors know anything the other survivors know and then make a balanced game with that information after doing whatever needs to be done in order to make sure that this is true.
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ps4 = party
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
Instead of generalizing 'Balance Around Voice Chat' please, give even 1 example of 'balance' around voice chat? Voice Chat isn't a function or some type of mechanic that can be tweaked and altered in any way. It is either there, or it's not.Some might say, well have perks that can affect voice communication in game in some way. Maybe after the 1st hook the player loses the ability to use voice chat (killer cut out their voice box idk). Wow, balance . . .
Wait . . . Let's just use Discord.
I am willing to hear any actual 'balance' based around voice chat that players won't simply revert to using Discord because they don't want any type of balance.
As others have said, voice communication is only as powerful as the survivors make it. A bunch of randoms with voice chat would probably be trash talking one another 90% of the time, making annoying noises or talking about non game related things.
SWF is only OP when used by organized, skillful and knowledgeable players. They are a dim a dozen, but the fact they can be that power needs to be balanced within the SWF mechanic in the game. Limiting SWF groups only to unique perk/item/offerings (no player would have access to what other players take into the game) would add great balance to such SWF groups. Those who claim otherwise just want to have access to such OP configurations if they want too use them.
Balance around VC doesn't mean that you make changes that directly hinder the VC itself, that would be counter productive.
Rather you just take the assumption that survivors know anything the other survivors know and then make a balanced game with that information after doing whatever needs to be done in order to make sure that this is true.
"after doing whatever needs to be done" that's what I am wanting to know. What is that, that needs to be done? How do you balance around an assumption?
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@TrAiNwReCk said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
Instead of generalizing 'Balance Around Voice Chat' please, give even 1 example of 'balance' around voice chat? Voice Chat isn't a function or some type of mechanic that can be tweaked and altered in any way. It is either there, or it's not.Some might say, well have perks that can affect voice communication in game in some way. Maybe after the 1st hook the player loses the ability to use voice chat (killer cut out their voice box idk). Wow, balance . . .
Wait . . . Let's just use Discord.
I am willing to hear any actual 'balance' based around voice chat that players won't simply revert to using Discord because they don't want any type of balance.
As others have said, voice communication is only as powerful as the survivors make it. A bunch of randoms with voice chat would probably be trash talking one another 90% of the time, making annoying noises or talking about non game related things.
SWF is only OP when used by organized, skillful and knowledgeable players. They are a dim a dozen, but the fact they can be that power needs to be balanced within the SWF mechanic in the game. Limiting SWF groups only to unique perk/item/offerings (no player would have access to what other players take into the game) would add great balance to such SWF groups. Those who claim otherwise just want to have access to such OP configurations if they want too use them.
Balance around VC doesn't mean that you make changes that directly hinder the VC itself, that would be counter productive.
Rather you just take the assumption that survivors know anything the other survivors know and then make a balanced game with that information after doing whatever needs to be done in order to make sure that this is true.
"after doing whatever needs to be done" that's what I am wanting to know. What is that, that needs to be done? How do you balance around an assumption?
Simple. Buffs when the assumption means a side has more power and nerfs if it means less power.
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@TrAiNwReCk said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
Instead of generalizing 'Balance Around Voice Chat' please, give even 1 example of 'balance' around voice chat? Voice Chat isn't a function or some type of mechanic that can be tweaked and altered in any way. It is either there, or it's not.Some might say, well have perks that can affect voice communication in game in some way. Maybe after the 1st hook the player loses the ability to use voice chat (killer cut out their voice box idk). Wow, balance . . .
Wait . . . Let's just use Discord.
I am willing to hear any actual 'balance' based around voice chat that players won't simply revert to using Discord because they don't want any type of balance.
As others have said, voice communication is only as powerful as the survivors make it. A bunch of randoms with voice chat would probably be trash talking one another 90% of the time, making annoying noises or talking about non game related things.
SWF is only OP when used by organized, skillful and knowledgeable players. They are a dim a dozen, but the fact they can be that power needs to be balanced within the SWF mechanic in the game. Limiting SWF groups only to unique perk/item/offerings (no player would have access to what other players take into the game) would add great balance to such SWF groups. Those who claim otherwise just want to have access to such OP configurations if they want too use them.
Balance around VC doesn't mean that you make changes that directly hinder the VC itself, that would be counter productive.
Rather you just take the assumption that survivors know anything the other survivors know and then make a balanced game with that information after doing whatever needs to be done in order to make sure that this is true.
"after doing whatever needs to be done" that's what I am wanting to know. What is that, that needs to be done? How do you balance around an assumption?
Also "doing what needs to be done" is refering to the VC. Not additional changes in response to VC.
You make it so that there is no disconnect between the perceived factors and the actual factors. And then you make sure the stats
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
Instead of generalizing 'Balance Around Voice Chat' please, give even 1 example of 'balance' around voice chat? Voice Chat isn't a function or some type of mechanic that can be tweaked and altered in any way. It is either there, or it's not.Some might say, well have perks that can affect voice communication in game in some way. Maybe after the 1st hook the player loses the ability to use voice chat (killer cut out their voice box idk). Wow, balance . . .
Wait . . . Let's just use Discord.
I am willing to hear any actual 'balance' based around voice chat that players won't simply revert to using Discord because they don't want any type of balance.
As others have said, voice communication is only as powerful as the survivors make it. A bunch of randoms with voice chat would probably be trash talking one another 90% of the time, making annoying noises or talking about non game related things.
SWF is only OP when used by organized, skillful and knowledgeable players. They are a dim a dozen, but the fact they can be that power needs to be balanced within the SWF mechanic in the game. Limiting SWF groups only to unique perk/item/offerings (no player would have access to what other players take into the game) would add great balance to such SWF groups. Those who claim otherwise just want to have access to such OP configurations if they want too use them.
Balance around VC doesn't mean that you make changes that directly hinder the VC itself, that would be counter productive.
Rather you just take the assumption that survivors know anything the other survivors know and then make a balanced game with that information after doing whatever needs to be done in order to make sure that this is true.
"after doing whatever needs to be done" that's what I am wanting to know. What is that, that needs to be done? How do you balance around an assumption?
Simple. Buffs when the assumption means a side has more power and nerfs if it means less power.
Yes, but what would these buffs be? I am not trying to be a troll or whatever. I really want to know.
The problem is Survivors OR Killers just want something to happen and then balance it from there. What's the points of changing things to change them only to still have balance issues down the line. Wanting change without any specific realistic ideas for balance there after makes the change meaningless. It essentially gives into one side and still problems persist, but hey that one side got what they wanted so its fine.
Really, I am just asking. If you are unsure that's fine, but that's my point.
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@TrAiNwReCk said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
Instead of generalizing 'Balance Around Voice Chat' please, give even 1 example of 'balance' around voice chat? Voice Chat isn't a function or some type of mechanic that can be tweaked and altered in any way. It is either there, or it's not.Some might say, well have perks that can affect voice communication in game in some way. Maybe after the 1st hook the player loses the ability to use voice chat (killer cut out their voice box idk). Wow, balance . . .
Wait . . . Let's just use Discord.
I am willing to hear any actual 'balance' based around voice chat that players won't simply revert to using Discord because they don't want any type of balance.
As others have said, voice communication is only as powerful as the survivors make it. A bunch of randoms with voice chat would probably be trash talking one another 90% of the time, making annoying noises or talking about non game related things.
SWF is only OP when used by organized, skillful and knowledgeable players. They are a dim a dozen, but the fact they can be that power needs to be balanced within the SWF mechanic in the game. Limiting SWF groups only to unique perk/item/offerings (no player would have access to what other players take into the game) would add great balance to such SWF groups. Those who claim otherwise just want to have access to such OP configurations if they want too use them.
Balance around VC doesn't mean that you make changes that directly hinder the VC itself, that would be counter productive.
Rather you just take the assumption that survivors know anything the other survivors know and then make a balanced game with that information after doing whatever needs to be done in order to make sure that this is true.
"after doing whatever needs to be done" that's what I am wanting to know. What is that, that needs to be done? How do you balance around an assumption?
Simple. Buffs when the assumption means a side has more power and nerfs if it means less power.
Yes, but what would these buffs be? I am not trying to be a troll or whatever. I really want to know.
The problem is Survivors OR Killers just want something to happen and then balance it from there. What's the points of changing things to change them only to still have balance issues down the line. Wanting change without any specific realistic ideas for balance there after makes the change meaningless. It essentially gives into one side and still problems persist, but hey that one side got what they wanted so its fine.
Really, I am just asking. If you are unsure that's fine, but that's my point.
I've only not been specifying because it is kinda arbitrary. It could be a MS buff to killers, it could be a gen repair nerf to survivors, it could be a hatch rework that is more killer sided or it could be a combination of things.
The buffs do not have to specifically counter VC somehow so it's kinda hard to say that this change needs a specific buff to go with it, we don't it just needs to be mathematically sufficient, playtesting would be required to figure out what that means exactly
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
Instead of generalizing 'Balance Around Voice Chat' please, give even 1 example of 'balance' around voice chat? Voice Chat isn't a function or some type of mechanic that can be tweaked and altered in any way. It is either there, or it's not.Some might say, well have perks that can affect voice communication in game in some way. Maybe after the 1st hook the player loses the ability to use voice chat (killer cut out their voice box idk). Wow, balance . . .
Wait . . . Let's just use Discord.
I am willing to hear any actual 'balance' based around voice chat that players won't simply revert to using Discord because they don't want any type of balance.
As others have said, voice communication is only as powerful as the survivors make it. A bunch of randoms with voice chat would probably be trash talking one another 90% of the time, making annoying noises or talking about non game related things.
SWF is only OP when used by organized, skillful and knowledgeable players. They are a dim a dozen, but the fact they can be that power needs to be balanced within the SWF mechanic in the game. Limiting SWF groups only to unique perk/item/offerings (no player would have access to what other players take into the game) would add great balance to such SWF groups. Those who claim otherwise just want to have access to such OP configurations if they want too use them.
Balance around VC doesn't mean that you make changes that directly hinder the VC itself, that would be counter productive.
Rather you just take the assumption that survivors know anything the other survivors know and then make a balanced game with that information after doing whatever needs to be done in order to make sure that this is true.
"after doing whatever needs to be done" that's what I am wanting to know. What is that, that needs to be done? How do you balance around an assumption?
Simple. Buffs when the assumption means a side has more power and nerfs if it means less power.
Yes, but what would these buffs be? I am not trying to be a troll or whatever. I really want to know.
The problem is Survivors OR Killers just want something to happen and then balance it from there. What's the points of changing things to change them only to still have balance issues down the line. Wanting change without any specific realistic ideas for balance there after makes the change meaningless. It essentially gives into one side and still problems persist, but hey that one side got what they wanted so its fine.
Really, I am just asking. If you are unsure that's fine, but that's my point.
I've only not been specifying because it is kinda arbitrary. It could be a MS buff to killers, it could be a gen repair nerf to survivors, it could be a hatch rework that is more killer sided or it could be a combination of things.
The buffs do not have to specifically counter VC somehow so it's kinda hard to say that this change needs a specific buff to go with it, we don't it just needs to be mathematically sufficient, playtesting would be required to figure out what that means exactly
Right on, I think I can see what you are saying now. And some of those ideas sound fair on the surface, I think so anyway.
One example, then we get a new problem. Gens take a bit longer to do with the addition of Voice Chat.
"As a survivor I don't use voice chat at all, I don't like it, it's annoying because x, y and zwhy should I have a harder time getting gens completed when I don't even use the voice chat?"
Might not be the best example, but while your reasoning isn't unfair in my opinion. Players will find circumstances to make your reasons unfair for them in particular.
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Yes a voice chat would balance the game.
But many people would quite DbD.
Because they dont want hear other survivor.
And you know why.
A Ping System (example:Rainbow Six Siege or Apex Legends) would be better.0 -
Something tells me you ( @NuclearBurrito2 ) didn't read Peanits post. He literally gave the reasons why VC wouldn't work with randoms. I play PS4, my friends and family, whom are decent at best, destroy killers because we have more coordination with each other then randoms would ever have.
@ShyN3ko I think a ping system would be lovely, maybe a new item like a spray can? Literally anything would be good. I enjoy not using vc if I can.
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You guys realize these solutions are not mutually exclusive. We can have redundancy if we need it.
We can have VC, Pings, additional passive aura's, action icons in the character portraits ect and then rework perks like bond and empathy in response
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As someone else pointed out earlier either in this thread or another one might've been @TrAiNwReCk the language barrier is along with the trolling that comes with it.
Adding in VC and balancing around that only works if 100% or at least 90% of the player base uses it and there's no way that'll happen.
Then you also introduce the same problem all the other games that've done it have, toxicity that can't be accurately dealt with and a ton of false reports.
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@powerbats said:
As someone else pointed out earlier either in this thread or another one might've been @TrAiNwReCk the language barrier is along with the trolling that comes with it.Adding in VC and balancing around that only works if 100% or at least 90% of the player base uses it and there's no way that'll happen.
Then you also introduce the same problem all the other games that've done it have, toxicity that can't be accurately dealt with and a ton of false reports.
Funny how powerbats is trolling threads to be a 'Right Fighter'
As long as this poster feels right they will post a wall of text that makes THEM feel like they are right.
They can't be bothered we are tossing around theories.
Sorry, but not sorry powerbats. YOU are still WRONG
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@powerbats said:
As someone else pointed out earlier either in this thread or another one might've been @TrAiNwReCk the language barrier is along with the trolling that comes with it.Adding in VC and balancing around that only works if 100% or at least 90% of the player base uses it and there's no way that'll happen.
Then you also introduce the same problem all the other games that've done it have, toxicity that can't be accurately dealt with and a ton of false reports.
Look at how many posts this user has. Clearly they don't spend much time in the game they claim to know so much about ROFL
They troll threads within this forum to feel right because in game, when put into practice, they find out they're wrong.
In forums users can come across however they want, powerbats is a clear example of a 'Right Fighter'
- I am right
- Read my wall of redundant generalized text
- Know I am right
And the cycle repeats.
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@TrAiNwReCk said:
@powerbats said:
As someone else pointed out earlier either in this thread or another one might've been @TrAiNwReCk the language barrier is along with the trolling that comes with it.Adding in VC and balancing around that only works if 100% or at least 90% of the player base uses it and there's no way that'll happen.
Then you also introduce the same problem all the other games that've done it have, toxicity that can't be accurately dealt with and a ton of false reports.
Funny how powerbats is trolling threads to be a 'Right Fighter'
As long as this poster feels right they will post a wall of text that makes THEM feel like they are right.
They can't be bothered we are tossing around theories.
Sorry, but not sorry powerbats. YOU are still WRONG
I'm not even going to bother responding to you since it's obvious you're no longer here to debate.
Post edited by powerbats on0 -
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@powerbats said:
As someone else pointed out earlier either in this thread or another one might've been @TrAiNwReCk the language barrier is along with the trolling that comes with it.Adding in VC and balancing around that only works if 100% or at least 90% of the player base uses it and there's no way that'll happen.
Then you also introduce the same problem all the other games that've done it have, toxicity that can't be accurately dealt with and a ton of false reports.
Look at how many posts this user has. Clearly they don't spend much time in the game they claim to know so much about ROFL
They troll threads within this forum to feel right because in game, when put into practice, they find out they're wrong.
In forums users can come across however they want, powerbats is a clear example of a 'Right Fighter'
- I am right
- Read my wall of redundant generalized text
- Know I am right
And the cycle repeats.
Read my above response and when you're ready to actually debate I'll be here waiting.
Post edited by powerbats on0 -
@powerbats said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@powerbats said:
As someone else pointed out earlier either in this thread or another one might've been @TrAiNwReCk the language barrier is along with the trolling that comes with it.Adding in VC and balancing around that only works if 100% or at least 90% of the player base uses it and there's no way that'll happen.
Then you also introduce the same problem all the other games that've done it have, toxicity that can't be accurately dealt with and a ton of false reports.
Funny how powerbats is trolling threads to be a 'Right Fighter'
As long as this poster feels right they will post a wall of text that makes THEM feel like they are right.
They can't be bothered we are tossing around theories.
Sorry, but not sorry powerbats. YOU are still WRONG
I'm not even going to bother responding to you since it's obvious you're no longer here to debate.
The forum troll returns #1
You give up on your 'debate' because a debate uses facts, you use feelings.
Anything else?
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@powerbats said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@powerbats said:
As someone else pointed out earlier either in this thread or another one might've been @TrAiNwReCk the language barrier is along with the trolling that comes with it.Adding in VC and balancing around that only works if 100% or at least 90% of the player base uses it and there's no way that'll happen.
Then you also introduce the same problem all the other games that've done it have, toxicity that can't be accurately dealt with and a ton of false reports.
Look at how many posts this user has. Clearly they don't spend much time in the game they claim to know so much about ROFL
They troll threads within this forum to feel right because in game, when put into practice, they find out they're wrong.
In forums users can come across however they want, powerbats is a clear example of a 'Right Fighter'
- I am right
- Read my wall of redundant generalized text
- Know I am right
And the cycle repeats.
Read my above response and when you're ready to actually debate I'll be here waiting.
The forum troll returns #2
Read my above response and when you're ready to actually debate I'll be here waiting.
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Testing 1 2 3
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@TrAiNwReCk said:
Testing 1 2 3Read you loud and clear
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Always assume SWF groups are on voice, and communicating your location. I think then, it would be fair, that if you can see one SWF group member, you should get Aura locations of all other SWF group members. This seems fair and balanced. Turnabout being fair play and all. Solo players would be unaffected as their location would not be shared.
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@Tiersis said:
Always assume SWF groups are on voice, and communicating your location. I think then, it would be fair, that if you can see one SWF group member, you should get Aura locations of all other SWF group members. This seems fair and balanced. Turnabout being fair play and all. Solo players would be unaffected as their location would not be shared.What would stop my friends and I from queuing separately at the same time until we end up in the same lobby to circumvent that?
I also don't think this really fixes the issue, that's more of a bandaid. The issue is not people playing with their friends, a lot of the groups you go against aren't much better than solo survivors. The issue is the lack of counterplay when a group is playing efficiently, SWF or not. If you start punishing all groups as if they are highly coordinated you'll start to notice a wider disparity in skill between the coordinated groups and the casual groups of friends.
I will also say, for what it's worth, that auras alone wouldn't really help with that. Most experienced killers can already read survivors like a book and predict their movements. I can usually guess when someone's going to go for an unhook, for example, and knowing they are a premade group will usually mean they're going to be more aggressively altruistic. Knowing where they are isn't going to give me a leg up on them, it doesn't allow me to chase more than one survivor at a time. All that would do is hold the hands of those who never learned how to predict survivor movements while leaving the time efficiency issue completely unaffected.
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@Tiersis said:
Always assume SWF groups are on voice, and communicating your location. I think then, it would be fair, that if you can see one SWF group member, you should get Aura locations of all other SWF group members. This seems fair and balanced. Turnabout being fair play and all. Solo players would be unaffected as their location would not be shared.Anything that explicitly re-balances the game for the immediate presense of SWF would need to be in a separate lobby. Because balance is not in isolation and that kind of aura reading effects EVERYONE in the game and not just the SWF players, it influences what perks you would take, it effects any solo's qued alongside SWF ect ect ect.
Hence why the solution is to bring the Solo's potential power up to the same level as SWF by just giving them VC and potentially other information that SWF would have anyways. And then we can just buff killers around the board to compensate
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Also people forget. Coordination vs uncoordinated randoms isn't a balance issue. It's a skill gap. As in an uncoordinated team failing is doing so because they are uncoordinated so learn to coordinate dammit, you obviously can't do that now because players can't communicate, but that is a solvable problem.
The fact that high ranked survivors escape more than low ranked survivors just means to me that survivors have a higher skill gap than killers, the gap itself is 100% fine, that's just the room you have to grow and is a sign of a game that requires skill which is a good thing. The fact that it isn't the same for the killers is a bit of a problem but again, can be solved with changes (I'm not high rank so I'm not the best person to ask about that particular kind of change)
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@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tiersis said:
Always assume SWF groups are on voice, and communicating your location. I think then, it would be fair, that if you can see one SWF group member, you should get Aura locations of all other SWF group members. This seems fair and balanced. Turnabout being fair play and all. Solo players would be unaffected as their location would not be shared.Anything that explicitly re-balances the game for the immediate presense of SWF would need to be in a separate lobby. Because balance is not in isolation and that kind of aura reading effects EVERYONE in the game and not just the SWF players, it influences what perks you would take, it effects any solo's qued alongside SWF ect ect ect.
Hence why the solution is to bring the Solo's potential power up to the same level as SWF by just giving them VC and potentially other information that SWF would have anyways. And then we can just buff killers around the board to compensate
Again vx won't solve the issue since it's based upon the false premise that everyone is going to use it.
- There's language barriers
- People that have their own Discord aren't giving that up to talk to total strangers.
- No one wants to listen to screaming 12 year olds yelling at them for not coming to save them from the chainsaw wielding maniac camping them in full view.
- Trolls would simply have a completely safe venue to harass people in.
- Trolls would simply falsely report people for being toxic in voice.
- Solo players enjoy playing without having to listen to others and I've declined Discord invites in solo and other on here have as well.
- You've got groups of friends talking shop ie significant others, work, movies, music etc and they won't join to talk to some random.
- F13 did it and look how toxic that got, any COD and both Battlefront games show why voice is toxic.
The idea is to buff solo's up to swf level information wise and then buff killers to match that since a base kindred or something like that will help.
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The problem with the huge differencebetween coordinated and uncoordinated is that the killers will be balanced around the weaker uncoordinated and get ######### on by coordinated survivors, regardless of involved parties' skill.NuclearBurrito said:Also people forget. Coordination vs uncoordinated randoms isn't a balance issue. It's a skill gap. As in an uncoordinated team failing is doing so because they are uncoordinated so learn to coordinate dammit, you obviously can't do that now because players can't communicate, but that is a solvable problem.
The fact that high ranked survivors escape more than low ranked survivors just means to me that survivors have a higher skill gap than killers, the gap itself is 100% fine, that's just the room you have to grow and is a sign of a game that requires skill which is a good thing. The fact that it isn't the same for the killers is a bit of a problem but again, can be solved with changes (I'm not high rank so I'm not the best person to ask about that particular kind of change)
LOL at zhe "not-talking-about-the-game"-myth.1
