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Perhaps we are in need of a healing change(?)
So months and months ago, there was a healing change that changed the healing base time from 12 seconds to 16 seconds. This was an attempt by the developers to slow the game down, stop rapid healing, and buy the killer more time for successfully injuring survivors as a reward. Yet in sharp contrast, the meta has taken an incentive to not heal because it wastes too much time and they can equip Adrenaline in order to save half a minute in most cases. What it seems to me right now is that the planned change to buy time for the killer by injuring survivors has backfired as survivors now have stopped healing in general. Therefore, wouldn't 14 seconds be a mediator of the two times (12 and 16) that doesn't discourage survivors from healing?
Feel free to post your criticism below. I haven't had much time to dwell on this, so I can't think of many downsides at the moment.
Comments
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In my experience the no heal strategy is rare, but if survivors don’t wanna heal now then two seconds less probably won’t change that.
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This happened because efficient survivors understood they could use their self care slot in a better way by just using a medkit. Plus there are many perks which grants extra lives (MoM, Ds, BT, Adrenaline, Dead Hard). Of course there will always be smart claudettes who prefer self healing with sloppy (aka 32 seconds waste), most of them play solo, since they cant rely on swf, they use SC.
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survivors from rank 1-12 usually don’t run self care because they understand that it waste time and when you’ve got to that rank you know where to go to get healed also you can bring med kits and insta heal add ons so it’s kinda just wasting a perk slot and people run adrenaline So they know they don’t have to heal during the last 1/2 gens and waste time and just be insta healed
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Before SC was even nerfed people still didn’t bring it in cause they basically thought it was a waste of time.
After the nerf, including with sloppy that make sure healing longer, I doubt devs are going to undo their nerf.
Survivors recently had DS buff (not in the best way) and there are now double pallets.
Best thing to do at the moment is adapt, I know it like sucks but that’s all we have to do.
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40 seconds with sloppy mate, that's a half gen
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Yeah, adapt it's easy to say but, if you play agains 4 adrenaline, 3-4 DH, 2-3 MoM mayby DS, BT, and game duration is less than 3 minutes(typical high rank game,ruin count). I think something is wrong in game. Now i play exclusive only nurse, rest killer, even spirit, bc her power compare to nurse is limited, she has hard time. Same with nurse, sorry to say that but 2 blink in this meta is not viable againt all these cruthes. Now i don't even want to play this game, bc even if i have np with killing people, this is just no fun for me to play against all this #########.
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Thats kinds interesting. Before the change the amountog Time needed for Healing (12-24) was much time but you were okay because it was still possible to safe people, make gen progress and survive. Now it takes 16-32 secs and more and more Players like i am stopped healing. They started playing as efficient as possible which depletes the whole amount of time buyed in the past through healing (12-24secs/heal)
But idk if reverting this changeor nerfing it would solve this because high ranked survivors will still deny healing because for those it is wasting their time. I mean somepeople would start playing SC again if it would take max. 24 secs bit i dont believe thst its an option for most Players ^^ so yea
I Think thats the new meta. Efficiency.
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That's true, and it shows how broken the game is. When you can bypass a debuff provided by your opponent and have it easy to win you clearly have problem with balance, but that's something everyone knew.
I keep saying it, survivors should have an individual penalty to repearing speed if they stay injured.
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Most survivors wont even getting healed with WWMI, even though thats ######### stupid. nothing will balance this, cause it will alsways benefit one side.
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I think healing a DYING survivor should be a little faster. I also think that killers attacking a person being healed and a healer should have their attacks prioritize the healer instead. Right now it ignores them and puts the injured into dying.
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true it would encourage healing, some players still won't heal often because that is time that could be spent on a gen. I do better whenever I get survivors that dont heal because that just means chases end quicker, so I don't really have a problem with how it is now. even if they do heal, that means they werent on gens. it's a win-win for me
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It's a little more complicated than that. The healing changes, along with sloppy butcher being buffed at the same time, definitely shifted the meta. The issue is that changing it back wouldn't necessarily make the meta change back.
To really understand how much time not healing saves, you need to look at how many charges healing takes, since that tells you how many charges could be going into generators. A self care at half speed is the same as two survivors at full speed (rather than one person spending 32 seconds, for example, two spend 16). Each second a survivor is occupied is a charge they could be putting into a generator.
Let's assume that sloppy butcher isn't at play, even though it's a very popular perk, and that nobody is self healing with a medkit to balance it out. When you really break it down:
- If all four survivors are injured and need to heal with a base 16 heal time, that would work out to effectively 128 charges.
- If all four survivors are injured and need to heal with a base 12 heal time, that would work out to effectively 96 charges.
There's definitely a difference there, but when you consider that 80 charges is a solo generator, you'd see that it's a no brainer not to heal most of the time. The time it would take for everyone to heal up, even with the old heal times, is more than the time it would take to fully repair a generator.
Let's just take the old heal times as an example. You could heal everyone in 96 total seconds, or you could repair a generator, get healed in the process, and get a huge speed boost while you're at it all in 80 seconds. Not to mention the extra insurance you get from having adrenaline activate while you're on the hook.
Even before, the no heal meta would have worked, it was just that hardly anyone realized it. Switching the healing times back wouldn't change that.
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Sounds like a future killer perk.
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From most of the comments, the issue isn't with the heal times, it's all the extra hits players can take now; which I completely agree with. Reverting heal times back would only make the problem worse. It's unreasonable to remove those perks that extend the life of survivors (the extra hits). Instead, we should see some new killer perks that can counter that play style, which would change the meta and keep the game fresh for everyone.
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Very often, it's actually more time efficient to not heal
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"It's a little more complicated than that. The healing changes, along with sloppy butcher being buffed at the same time, definitely shifted the meta. The issue is that changing it back wouldn't necessarily make the meta change back."
It wouldn't. The survivors who moved away from it would still run what is working for them. This would only help survivors who still waste time healing and would hurt killers.
It was a change not thought out or tested enough. It is the same thing with Plague everyone thought the fountains instantly healing would be a big deal. Smart survivors just stayed sick to keep the Plague weaker.
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Self Care is still the most used perk at all levels.
I don't agree with it and think its a waste of time but many people are still trying to keep the self healing meta going.
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The healing change that is needed is one that brings buffs to healing perks.
If people don't need healing because it takes too long and they have protection or perks that benefit them being further injured, then nobody will give the healer the ability to make use of their perks.
No One Left Behind and Autodidact come to mind when we're talking about perks that could be useful given the conditions needed for them, but aren't...due to the conditions needed for them.
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I feel like that would make thanataphobia pointless since it would cause survivors to heal up instead, imo.
Although I do think it's an idea...could also end up making add-ons like those you find on leatherface that slow down gen work after being hit with an M2 a bit redundant unless they stacked (which would end up being too much)
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I still use Self-Care because it's always nice to have it.
I play solo mostly and I really don't want to rely on teammates, because most of them are potatoes.
Many times, this perk has saved my life and many times it has been completely useless.
I'd rather waste 30 seconds to heal myself to full health instead of going down in 15 seconds in a chase because I'm injured.
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It's a little more complicated than that. The healing changes, along with sloppy butcher being buffed at the same time,
Sloppy Butcher buff?
Healing time 12 seconds = Sloppy Butcher 25%
Healing time 16 seconds = Sloppy Butcher 20%
Its the same time.
Where is the buff?
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Rly?I thought Sloppy Butcher had always the mangled effect.
Because without this effect the perk would be pretty useless.
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@ShyN3ko When sloppy butcher was 25%, healing speed was 12. With sloppy butcher it became 16 (which is the normal healing speed right now) and the devs liked it.
After that, they nerfed the healing time to 16 second down from 12. The devs thought that sloppy butcher was overkill and adjusted its numbers, making it 20%.
So basically, they gave every single killer 'base old sloppy butcher' and then adjusted it accordingly, still making it powerful.
And yes, the perk was horrible before the buff.
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@ShyN3ko I actually now made a little bit research and here is my findings.
- Clown's mid chapter - Sloppy Butcher: Added the Mangled Status Effect. 25% increased healing time after being hit in addition to the bleed. Mangled status effects do not stack.
- Spirit's mid chapter - Increased the base heal time from 12 seconds to 16 seconds
- Mangled Status Effect: Reduced the modifier strength from -25% to -20%. Mangled will now increase healing time from 16 seconds to 20 seconds.
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@ShyN3ko Nothing :D
Sloppy butcher was just like monstrous shrine, honestly it was worse than that as far as I remember. Nobody even touched the damn perk. That's why they buffed it in the first place.
It is quite interesting that it is one of the top 5 perks that red rank killers use right now. I guess every perk has some kind of a chance with enough buffs.
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Tracking, I suppose. If you have it combined with Bloodhound, or pump up your monitor to display red better, its pretty much impossible to lose an injured survivor then.
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@ShyN3ko They should just combine bloodhound's effect with bleedout status effect. More frequent bleeding with better visibility.
As a survivor main, I have no idea why the hell the devs nerfed the pig. I guess they thought her endgame potential was not healthy but at the very least, they could have buffed her in other areas.
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they could have buffed her in other areas.
Nope.
I rly would dislike buffs for the ambush.
Both abilities must work.
In the normal game and in the endgame.
And going through the exit gate and escape with a DEADLY trap on your head just destroy the horror feeling.
DId someone watch SAW?
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This. I keep hearing about the "no heal meta" and have yet to see it materialize. Only time people won't heal is if they have Adrenaline and the last gen will pop soon.
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The healing time increase was a needed change. The solution to people now not healing IS NOT to lower the time again, the solution is to make it MORE dangerous to stay injured so that they HAVE to heal.
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there needs to be a downside of being injured, since most of the killers are not feared cuz they are easy to loop and gens go fast af. maybe a debuff like -actionspeed. the thana buff what we had on one of the PTBs was actually pretty good but ofc the change got never through.
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Being injured should definitely carry a penalty by default. Slower move speed, less efficiency on actions, no fast vault. All of these things make sense for being injured.
The fact that being injured/broken imparts NO penalty at all makes especially m1 killers, and Plague more specifically just ass.
Combine the above with the fact that MoM might as well be an insta heal on a perk, DS might as well be an extra hook state if you don't play around it, adrenaline makes end game irrelevant, makes m1ing a survivor useless, and makes killers without instadowns just that much worse.
No penalty for injury+20 extra free health states on perks and items is the reason games go so fast. You want to fix game speeds and slow them down? Make being hurt matter, and stop giving survivors so many free ways to ignore killers hitting them.
A decent killer can end a chase and have an equally skilled survivor on a hook in less than a minute assuming no perks and no items. Add in all the free escapes and health states survivors get, and chases can last literally the entire game.
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Sorry I don’t usually play in high ranks for both sides.
DS is not much of an issue anymore, just don’t tunnel.
DH is kinda just like ok lots of people tend to use it too soon.
MoM is the only broken perk but it can be activated early the as hell in the match.
Adrenaline is yet again another situational perk. I always thought to myself, sure you injured maybe 3 people and 2 heal up but why stress if you're not even nearby them. You lost them after all.
Yeah it sucks when you’re chasing them.
I think perks aren’t the problem (besides MoM), gens should probably be more difficult in higher ranks due to the use of ruin according to the statistics they’ve given us, it is extremely high in those ranks.
Plus killers also have crutch perks? (NOED, Nurse’s, BBQ, etc)
Survivors have more because their whole objective is to try to SURVIVE longer. That is the whole point of playing as survivor.
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NOED I agree is crutch. That said they ALL have counter play that doesn't even require a perk to do so.
Please explain how you think NC, BBQ, or "etc" of any other perks are crutch? You literally counter them by not being an idiot.
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I think being healed by a teammate should be faster. That way, Self-care isn't always more viable than relying on teammates.
That's it.
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Maybe because healing yourself grants you the best exhaustion perk in the entire game, but who knows, maybe it does nothing.
This is just educated guess, but I think healing is only a problem between ranks 15-20 because at those ranks, killers can hit survivors in less time than a survivor can heal themselves because their chaser emblems are poor. At higher ranks, players more experienced with tile set, so when they have jungle gym or good pallet, they can waste a lot more time, which in turn accelerates games as players get hit less and do generators faster because they have less of need to heal themselves. So I would say their healing change only hurt lower ranks and did essentially nothing for better players.
If you wonder why a lot of killer players use Nurse calling+Sloppy, It's because it indirectly gives you machine gun build by making your hits on survivor mean more, since It's harder to reverse healing states and if you don't heal, you are essentially accepting to play No Mither build for the rest of the match which in my opinion is very risky and not a good strategy plan.
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