Devs: Please Tell us The Legion Is Going To be Reworked Again? Please?
The Legion's power is really, really bad. I'm sorry, but it is. It actively stops itself from working.
1) Deep Wounds timer will not reduce if the Survivor is in a chase. So no putting on the pressure!
2) Deep Wounds CANNOT incap a Survivor who is actively mending, even if the timer hits 0.
3) Legion LOSES Feral Frenzy gauge if they attack normally. Like, they will lose half the gauge for trying to down a Survivor. Why? Why are they punished for doing what Killers do and trying to KILL people?
4) Legion can't track Survivors using Feral Frenzy (They can't see blood or scratch marks). Though you will see the auras of non-Deep Wounds-suffering Survivors after hitting 1. Good luck finding that 1.
5) If you use Feral Frenzy to catch up to a Survivor in a chase, the 'extended cooldown' (4 seconds) means they WILL put 5 miles between you and them before you can run normally again. So you can't use it as a chase-closer.
6) You cannot break pallets while in Feral Frenzy (I think they have an addon that breaks any pallet you vault)
7) You can NOT incap someone by stabbing them in Feral Frenzy. You can take them from Healthy to Injured, but NEVER Injured to Dying.
Basically, Feral Frenzy can't be used to speed up a chase, due to the horridly long 4 second cooldown. It can't be used to send someone into Dying. And You can't pressure anyone into missing the Mend, since the timer stops in a chase AND if they are Mending.
I did not make this list to be a jerk. I wanted to try and crystallize just how badly Feral Frenzy works & hope the Devs will use it to help rebalance The Legion..
Comments
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Probably at 5th anniversary stream
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Yeah some ppl like me who played alot Legion, old and new, know that the new legion is even worse then the old legion. But you are missing some things, the deep wound timer would go down in chase, it just dont goes dont when you are in the terror radius. And you can kind of use sometimes frenzy to catch up again (if you get stunned by a pallet without enduring or brutal streangth and the survivor build up alot of distance to you, then you can actually us it to catch up again. But overall you are right and i understand what you mean.
I think the most ppl that played the old legion and miss them really hard, just like me, i really miss the old legion, that the devs are gonna do something with the new legion, they need a rework or a good update. A update that is not half and fast made, a good update with alot of thinking and love just like with the new freddy.
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Since they just used a lot of resources on Legion and there are a couple of killers who need work a bit more, I think we'll have to wait a bit.
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why would you want to bring back number 1 and 4?do you want to suffer the exploit legion agian? I have enough of that ######### already
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I was not asking for anything to be brought back. I was pointing out everything bad about his power.
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He is an M1 killer, mid to bottom tier. You don't use his power to tunnel/down one survivor like old legion, you use it to slow the game down.
When it comes down to it, like all of the m1 killers, you have to be able to find and catch a survivor.
Old legion was either god tier against bad survivors or below trash tier against good ones.
Use his power to locate multiple survivors and stop the gen rush. Get away from the ones you hit and spread out. Try running thano and sloppy butcher. Stop trying to tunnel the one you hit with Frenzy.
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"Legion is in a good spot[for Survivors] now. There are no plans to look into them at this time."
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In the most recent QnA when the Freddy rework came out they did say they were going to buff him, specifically his addons. No ETA though, I wouldn't hold your breath it'll probably take a while for them to do it.
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Addon ones buffs are only short sighted buffs and will not help at all, if the addons are not so op, as some addons of the old Legion.
The abilities of the Legion need a rework. Best would be, if they would do 2 patches:
-Patch 1 should bring the Legion back as she once was, just without the exploits and op addons (please without them, I don't need a second survivor Legion-nerf thread wave).
-Patch 2 should go further and adjust the Legion to set her in a viable spot for their major playerbase (without turning her into a m1 killer ->again<-).
Imo it should be go on this way. We Legion's could life with patch 1 for some time until they are ready for patch 2 and some survivors would finaly see that the Legion was not that dangerous.
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If you advocate for any of old legions mechanics to return, then you're opinion is unpopular and wrong.
For example, missing frenzy stabs SHOULD cancel frenzy (for counterplay purposes), Legion should not see blood for anti Tunnelling purposes, and you should never be able to use frenzy to down a survivor.
Old Legion was basically a badly designed Nurse rework and thank God it's gone. Is he undertuned? Perhaps, but mechanics went out the door for him for a specific and good reason. Keep them out.
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Since I know @Peanits just loves being tagged in Legion thread I'll do it ;)
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I doubt that my opinion is unpopular and she is to 100% not wrong.
I had in my endgame chats many survivors that were happy to play against the Legion and I have see many Legion mains that were happy with the pre patch Legion.
And I highly assume that I have met in my endgame chats more survivors as we would find in the nerf threads here. Especially if we talk about the nerf threads in the steam forums, since some Legion haters have push there, their opinion with namechanging tactics.
Luckily for me, I could watch them, because everytime they changed their names, there names got also changed in old forum threads and I just needed to look then in a old thread, if I have a new forum member for me, or a name changer and let us say... Some have really try to push negative comments with the help of name changing nearly every day. I have even make with one of those guys a joke about that in the steam forums.
Besides the design of the pre patch Legion was nearly perfect. They have just 3 errors made. 2 have lead to exploits. 1 to op addons. All 3 of those things should not happen.
And sorry... If you were 1 of the survivors, that have found no counterplay against the pre patch Legion without addons, then you was just bad at it. It's a fact. Tutorial videos on YouTube show that there was counterplay.
Of course not against Legion's with op addons, but not every Legion has run around with those, so don't treat all of us, as would have everyone use them.
Besides. A character should make fun for the guy who is playing this character and did you really think it makes "fun", to be stunned just because you or a survivor has struggeld with a lag?
Did you think it makes fun to have a castrated special abilitie? Did you think all those drawbacks on frenzy make fun?
There is a reason why devs in other games usually do everything in their force, to build no drawbacks in, or to let drawbacks not look like drawbacks, because they make no fun for the guy who is playing their game.
The current Legion is not innotative and she makes no fun for people that have exactly look out for a killer like the pre patch Legion. Most of them have even join dbd just because of this killer.
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I have been doing the same since the rework, even better really, and yes DW actually speeds up the chase more if you play legion properly, and I play on console
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Console vs pc is a different beast, legion is just a m1 killer now, using their power to "slow the game down" requires the survivors to be absolute potato's
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@undeadmauler yes, but on PC frenzy is harder to spin out, console is easier as of many issues, like slow af sensitivity and its at max
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Spinning frenzy isnt hard on either, it's just movement the biggest cause of misses is either lag or someone getting greedy
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@undeadmauler You don't know about the game auto ended lunges do you?
And PC has higher sensitivity than console, so hitting the survivor is not too hard there, while on Xbox for example, with the sensitivity as slow as it is, instead of following through with the survivors spin and not abruptly ending can result easily with a whiff and make you go through the chase
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Auto ended lunges are caused by not going through the whole animation without letting go of the attack. You can cancel the animation early and get a shorter lunge by just tapping, the biggest counter to big spins is getting on them waiting for the spin then short lunge, nlanything else is a greedy swing and if you miss it's not the movement it was your poor judgement of distance.
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Actually the Auto ended lunges are cause, from what I have seen, survivors spinning slightly in front of the killer during the start of the lunge animation, the cone system in place will cause the killer to follow through and end the animation early on its own, and I also do medium lunges because of this
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What you're seeing are whiffs due to 360's and aimassist. Short lunges counter this.
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Devs are slow to fix their own mistakes legion gonna be dead for a while. Legion is one of a few killer that is capable of being high tier with wraith. both need changes for that to happen, both have increased movement speed with their powers but they are not great for chases.
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Not being able to down someone with Feral Frenzy is very much so intentional. Since you can vault pallets and windows like a survivor, being able to down them with Feral Frenzy as well was (and always will be, as long as it's possible) overkill. It turned chases into wait for power > use power > repeat- there was no skill involved, you didn't need to outplay the other person, you just ran out the clock until you got a guaranteed down.
Blood and scratch marks not appearing is also very intentional. Since your power is non-lethal, the intent is to show you people who don't have deep wounds, not those that do. Using your power against someone who is already injured is silly, you cannot down them with your power.
It's not likely that the Legion will receive a full rework. A rework would require completely changing their power (like Freddy). We do have some changes we'd like to make, but there is no exact date for them just yet. We'll squeeze them in once we can.
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Are those changes nerfs, buffs or something in the middle? Since the changes don't seem to be finalized yet, what is the goal of the changes, in general?
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Mind giving us a hint of what those changes COULD be, if possible?
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so, if its not gonna be a full rework, just add an aditional power to his basekit.
many people ask for a killer that is able to disguise as a survivor, legions trailer shows frank acting like a survivor aswell, so why not?
Legion right now has the same problem old freddy had - actually, its even worse: he has no mindgame potential whatsoever. his power has no depth to it, its just "M2 and stab", which is very boring - for both players involved.
id like to add, that i am not trying to hate on the "rework". this has been very necessary, since Legion had just no counterplay at all to him. the changes got rid of all the annoying aspects of him, which is a very good thing, and im very glad we got it.
yet, and ive said so when the changes dropped and i'll say it again, they only fixed the annoying aspects of the power. legion is far from being a killer in a good spot. he needs buffs - quite drastic ones aswell. however, buffing his feral frenzy would probaply just put it back into the old annoying spot, so he should eigther get his frenzy reworked or get something else, something strong that allows for mindgames, added to his basekit.
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Thankyou for taking Time out of your day to respond, honestly the only big change that I'll ask for is either vault speed increase or receding the nerf on the cd addons. But even for those who havnt said so thankyou for all yall do.
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Using your power against an injured survivor is not silly in any way shape or form.
Let legion see scratch marks and pools of blood of survivors who don't have deep wound,it is that simple.
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Yeah plz do a rework on Legion
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No,
because you apply deep wound and you make them waste time and you refill your power gauge and then go for someone else.
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Old freddy had a ton of mindgame potential. What are you talking about?
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You would either see them, use your power, then hit them, or you would hit someone else and see a killer instinct indicator on everyone that doesn't have deep wounds. If you see them, use your power, then lose them before you hit them, oof, you messed up.
Post edited by Peanits on3 -
Well, thank you for replying :)
I guess rework was the wrong word or too strong. I did not mean, like, changing his power alltogether. ..Rebalance? Rebalance seems like the right word.
But you answered, and thank you again for that.
I'm still worried that his power harms itself more than it helps Legion. More specifically: losing power gauge on a normal attack. This just seems very silly. No other killer loses power gauge on an attack. The closest is GhostFace losing stealth & needing to wait for a recharge, but he does not lose the gauge if he's not using it.
It's like, Legion has to pick: Power, or kill? Most Killers use their power TO kill. Legion has to pick instead. And since his power can't incap on it's own, the Deep Wounds pauses in the killers TR (or in a chase? One of these), and won't incap if they are actively healing, so you can't apply pressure to make it work, AND the stun cooldown is too punishing to just use it as a speed boost..
It all just adds up to 'Just M1; you lose his power if you attack, but his power ain't worth it'
Well, I should rephrase; His power CAN be useful but it's VERY addon dependent. If you Mangle someone, Mending takes longer, right? That slows down Gen speeds..Except you've slowed down your killing (trading an incap for a Deep Wound), so even that's more of an even trade..
I don't know. We will have to wait and see. I love the aesthetic of Legion; 4 people in one body. I'm just lukeworm on their power.
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If an injured survivor loops you and you understand that you need to break the chase ,its the best option to use ff and go to another survivor.
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Alright so since he can avoid all of the survivors methods of defense he shouldn't be able to down?
THEN NERF NURSE BY THIS LOGIC BECAUSE IT'S THE EXACT SAME THING.
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What is silly is to, use a power that can only injure on an injured survivor that give a 4s fatigue and run only 10% faster than his normal ms.
Go to red ranks he makes no difference trust me legion power against pro survivors is BS. If they are in your terror radius they even repair because deep wound is not lethal in your terror radius.
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His power hurts him more than it helps him. Tunneling is a part of the game, whether you like it or not. Legion, especially on console, is hard to use. People abuse the hell out of 360'ing on console because they know Killers play at 25 FPS and Survivors play at ~45. Everytime you activate FF the FPS drops even more, making EVEN harder to land the hit.
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Unfortunately Legion will never be changed, they'd rather have them be another useless, loopable m1 killer than put thought into reworking them properly.
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I MAIN legion at red ranks and my strategy works.
Against pro survivors ,every power is pointless,duh
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"It turned chases into wait for power > use power > repeat- there was no skill involved, you didn't need to outplay the other person, you just ran out the clock until you got a guaranteed down."
This is exactly why pre patch Legion should and never will come back. No matter how many times you say it, there was no counter play. There was not a single thing you could do about his Frenzy. There was no skill involved, and it made it so even a bad player could down a superior survivor player in a predetermined amount of time.
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I mean, I personally don't find it too hard to hit people in Frenzy. Much better to have a penalty for missing than to be able to swing like a madman and have 15 chances to hit someone imo
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Why are you hitting them? Hitting survivors with Feral Frenzy is a terrible use of the power. Heck, using Feral Frenzy at all is a terrible use of the power unless you can guarantee that you'll hit at least two survivors, and since Legion has been slowed down, any halfway decent survivors will be able to guarantee that they won't be hit after the first person.
The best use of the power is typically to close distance, and then hope that there isn't a window or pallet near enough to keep you from being able to just take the stun in order to get a normal hit for a down. Any power that requires you to not use it to perform well is a bad power.
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While I could sit here and argue all day and night about how Legion deserves a ground up rework more than Freddy ever did, I do want to say something in regards to base kit:
If you're not going to rework Legion from the ground up, please at least revert the Frenzy Speed changes. You removed the lethality from the power, no need to slow them down as well. As it currently stands getting 2 chain stabs on Survivors that have more than 2 brain cells between them simply doesn't happen because you run out of gauge long before you reach the second person, and I'll also mention how Frenzy Vaults feel like hot garbage still. Please, at the bare minimum revert the speed nerfs to the supposedly agile teens.
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One change I think is pretty necessary is the vault speed change. At first I thought it was OK, but I don't think it's right that you can drop a pallet and run around a short loop as survivor and completely negate the power. Legion has plenty of counterplay without that.
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True. But maybe have it deplete the power tremendously instead of just cancelling it.
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Cancelling it is fine.
You shouldn't be missing hits anyway. The only place where this is actually a problem is console, and specific fixes should be targeted at that.
Legion has problems, but losing your power when you get outplayed so hard (or outplayed yourself so hard) you missed a hit is adequate.
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360'ing on console, as I said, is extremely hard for the Killer to deal with because of the low framerate. This is the main reason I want to give him two chances to hit, instead of one.
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