What the devs should have done from the very beginning
As the years progressed this game has surviors face some serious nerfs, and killer received some serious buffs. Problem is despite all of this bullshit, problems still arise Killer whine and complain and Survivors whine and complain toxicity plagues (har har) the community and the game still face some serious balance issue, but what if I told you there was one simple solution that was so easy to figure out it's embarassing the developers are now just figuring it out. MAKE GENERATOR PROGRESSION LONGER.
This is the primary issue with every killer, there isn't enough time to do anything because Generators take only 80 seconds at standard to complete, this isn't enough time for the killer to get into a groove. On average a game might only last 5 to 8 minutes with a swf group that manages to avoid the killer and work on generators only. That is not sufficent time to do anything, if the killer runs ruin and have crappy totem placement (raise your virtual hands if this has happened to you multiple times) the game might last at least 10 minutes, not enough time.
If Generators took roughly 1 minute and 80 seconds to complete, that means it will take 9 minutes uninterrupted to complete 5 generators which will give the killer enough time to do anything. This will promote healthy gameplay from both sides and mend the discord between two groups. Atlas at the point in the years with too many buffs and nerfs it would be pointless to incorporate this change due to killer perks that can stall the game.
Leave your thoughts below and please don't be a dickhead about it.
Comments
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This is a topic often discussed here on the forums. Bottom line: Some people think the game is fine how it currently is, others don't. Of those who want the killer to have more time, the majority doesn't want increased gen time but a 2nd objective. (Because repairing gens is boring.)
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What 2nd objective would they even add?
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Making gen times longer solves nothing it promotes camping + the last time they tried this they made exit gate timers 16 seconds which was seriously a issue it's not as simple as increasing gen times bud they have tried it didnt work.
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There are a lot of suggestions here on the forums as well. For example, I made this suggestion a couple of months ago: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/65083/concept-for-a-2nd-objective-for-survivors/p1
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That's why I said its too late for them even implement that type of change, Had they done this in the beginning there wouldn't have been vaulting nerfs, perk nerfs, etc.
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If a 2nd objective was implemented/gen time was increased, the hook phase time would simply need to get increased as well, to make camping stay a bad tactical choice.
Edit: Also AFAIK the devs never tried increasing gen time (to be more than 80 seconds). I don't know why you are making that claim. Gens used to be 70 seconds a long, long time ago.
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@DudeDelicious Yup, it's normal that DbD is constantly changing and that game mechanics are being adjusted. But I would like to know what the devs' opinion on this topic is - do they believe that the time that survivors need to get their objective done is balanced or do they see the need for a change?
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https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Patch_Notes_1.5.0
You sure about that?
- -Increased Exit Gate opening time from 15 seconds to 20 seconds. We've increased Generator and Exit Gate unlocking times by a 10 and 5 respectively in order to add more time overall to matches.
- -Increased generator total repair time from 70 seconds to 80 seconds. We've increased Generator and Exit Gate unlocking times by a 10 and 5 respectively in order to add more time overall to matches.
Hm i guess being increased to 80 seconds from 70 means nothing Interesting Also i never said they went higher but they did increase them but what else did they do? read my dude before replying that was the exact point i was talking about they also lowered exit gate timers on the ptb for end game collapse recently which im telling you now if they upped the gen times they would either up the hook timers or they would lower the door timers.
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Increasing generator time again aint it. Another objective and then increasing survivor defence options to compensate seems much more appealing.
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Totems are a 2nd objective and devs have been trying to give more incentives to do them. Though, doing totems is just as boring as doing gens which is why some people refuse doing them I guess.
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Ever since the rise of noed tier 1 I've have been busting totems left and right and feeling the salt from the killer as they send me hate mail and dude it's still really boring.
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@Hexyl I wrote in my post that gens used to be 70 seconds a long time ago and you reply that gens used to be 70 seconds a long time ago. Great, that is obviously something we agree on.
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Repair tools is a common idea.
Killers biggest problem is the first 45sec or so. Survivors Spawn in and all start working on gens while the killer has 0 pressure. This typically results in 2 gens popping as the killer gets his first hook.
Giving the survivors a 30 - 45s task at the start would have a significant effect.
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That idea sounds pretty cool. Where would you find them exactly?
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gens don't need more time, killers just need more pressure.
the ones that dont have mobility, which is universally useful, should have a way of forcing survivors to make tough decisions or psyche them out of performing efficiently.
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What they should have done from the beginning was make all maps with the same amount of pallets, and all doors the same distance apart, and not made addons that make powers flat out better, but rather change little things about how the power works. Having things that tip the scales so drastically to one side or the other will never create balance. It then just becomes about who brings the bigger guns that determines who wins.
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Then you’re right back at square one with no real change to the balance of the game. Just more interaction for the Survivors. Second objective, yes, more defensive options, no.
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I actually enjoy busting totems. Though the NOED buff was a stupid idea from he developers.
“Let’s buff a badly designed crutch perk to band aid fix the bad mechanics of Gen Rush, to punish Survivors for just doing their objectives. It’s a great counter for Good Killers who get beaten by Gen Rushing, but let’s just ignore that it boost bad Killers who are legitimately bad and can’t win even if they have all the time I the world. Great plan!”
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Doubling the amount of time it takes to repair a generator IS NOT THE WAY TO SOLVE ANYTHING! Its boring as sin to hold M1 for 80 seconds already.
Introduce something new! A secondary objective. Something else than just increasing numbers.
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I agree wholeheartedly with this, there have been a few objectively bad decisions (OG MOM) but stuff like gen times, early infinites, etc were caused by lack of predecessors and different expectations for the game then what it actually became. No one's omnipotent, they couldn't have predicted the game we have now 3 years ago when they still weren't even sure how to handle the concept in the first place.
And honestly, looking at some of the terrible, horrendous things that used to be in this game that they just didn't expect people to abuse (toxicity finds a way) and have now been removed. I'd say that they've not only done a good job so far, they've done an amazing damn job so far.
With dedicated servers coming up, a better ban system for D/Cers, and them just in general communicating with the playerbase far better than they used to they're only getting better.
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Why was MoM so bad? I never had a big issue with it at all it just prolonged the inevitable.
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Better than R6S? Overwatch? Fortnite? If they're that good at engaging their playerbase they wouldn't be losing so many people.
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It was like a slightly worse version of old DS. You got a free "extra life" for no effort. The biggest problem with it was that it destroyed M1 killers with no counter to stop it but hat literally no effect on killers like Legion, Billy, etc.
To be fair, I don't like new MOM either. It went from brokenly strong to brokenly weak. It honestly probably needs a whole rework or just an increase in required stacks and the addition of a hook save stack (protection stacks are too buggy and hard to actually achieve in a way that doesn't negate the usefulness of the perk)
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Personally I think Blizzard does a great job with Heroes of the Storm but BHVR is definitely the best "started from the bottom" team I've come across now adays
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Yes that was what i was talking about.
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Yep they could've done the idea they had at first which was gain a stack when you get a safe unhook but they took it out before the patch.
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Agreed. They were just worried the combination of the two would be too strong. That's why I thought a simple bump up on the stack count would've helped too. Like just one more stack would have made it a good pair for WGLF
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I don't see how protection hits is even considered too strong (sounds like queens the only one who plays the game), but they had to know deep down that nerf or rework was straight doo doo water.
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Increasing Gen times is a nerf to Solo Survivors. Let's find a way to buff solo survivors first before we change the game-plan.
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Unless 4 survivors are on 4 different gene, then the gamw wouldn't last 9 minutes
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and if you increase the amount of time for the killer, how are survivors supposed to cope with that? 4k's are pretty common in the game (outside red ranks), giving the killer even more time without any compensation for the survivors capabilities will only exacerbate that.
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It's a nerf to all Survivors.
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As of May there was over 75,000 players on PC as of June that dropped down to 40,000 players and continued to drop, we will see a rise once the Stranger Things content drop, but mark my words after a month or 2 that number will drop again.
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Thats why I address this post as something the devs should have done from the very beginning before all the nerfs and buffs, we all would have had our perks normally on both sides.
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@StupidButTru you must be new if you think the playerbase has been dropping.
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Bad idea though.
Putting the gen repair to 1 minute and 80 seconds?... Adding a whole minute to each gen?
Wozzers.
I don't want to have 20 minute plus matches. If you want survivors to stop working on gens all together... put the repair time to 1 min 80 seconds... no one would touch them ever again.
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Check for yourself --> https://steamcharts.com/app/381210
Also had you actually sat there and read I said from the very beginning.
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I wouldn't put it to more than 100 seconds per gen no matter how bad gen rush and looping get.
If it gets that far then I'd rather speed up Killers drastically instead.
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Woah woah noooo making them faster plus bloodlust chase would end easily.
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Better than 2-3 minute gens.
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The playerbase always goes through ups and downs.. you can see that throughout the history.
You got dedicated servers coming... and now a big popular hit show Stranger Things incoming, a license that is current and has a big fan base. That is going to send the numbers probably higher then that 75K influx that happened.
They aren't losing players in the playerbase, and it doesn't look like they will for some time yet.
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Problem is playerbase on average might lose roughly a few thousand, dbd always drops tens of thousands in business terms not good numbers, had it not been for dedicated fans who buy their cosmetics and cells I'm pretty sure this game would be deserted as they'll probably leave to go work on DeathGarden. Not even Nba 2k whose known to abuse microtrasaction and have buggy mechanics lose that much in fan base.
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Generator speed should be different based on how many survivors are in the game. You can argue that adjustments could also be made depending if a survivor is in chase, hooked, or downed. It makes sense that if there are more survivors in the trial that gens should run a little slower. And when it's down to just 1 or 2 they should probably speed up to swing momentum into the survivors favor so they at least have a chance. Also, I think the size of the map should be a factor in gen speed as well. Many large maps really put killers in a hole to start the game, when really most games are decided by how many gens can you complete before the killer gets the first hook.
My biggest problem right now with balance is that on average you probably have about 2 dead/2 survived, as killer or survivor it's pretty rare that 2 of us live and 2 of us die. Most games the survivors get rekt or the killers get rekt. So the games are either pretty terrible if you're killer or almost too easy. Having the entity make changes to gen speed based on different factors would help balance the game.
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This........ This I like....
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Agreed dead hard is way better than old MoM. Dead hard remains untouched somehow.
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Gens taking over 2 minutes?!? That’s insane. Killer could sleepwalk his way to 4K. Why is it that a lot of killers seem to want survivors balanced around low tier killers? “These killers (Wraith, Legion, Clown, etc) are weak. Solution- nerf the ######### out of survivors.”
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This wouldn't actually solve as much as you might think. Generator times were increased from the original 60 seconds to 80 seconds way back, but as you can see, that alone doesn't change much.
Adding extra time to a generator doesn't make the game significantly longer. To give an example, let's say the generator times goes from 80 seconds to 100 seconds. That's a 25% increase- 20 seconds longer per generator. However, over the course of the entire game and between all five generators, that's only a total of 100 seconds. Worse yet, this assumes that all generators are being worked on sequentially, but that's not the case.
Realistically, three survivors are going to be working on separate generators while one gets chased. 100 seconds later, three generators are going to go off. They can then split off to three others, start working on those, and then 100 seconds later, the remaining two are bound to go off. (These are obviously worst case scenarios, if they're doing it that fast, you are doing a terrible job applying pressure.) In total, you would only gain about 40 seconds from that 25% increase.
Unless you go to the extremes- which is going to feel awful to play against- it's not going to make a difference. We're talking old Freddy half speed levels of slow. Realistically speaking, that would make the vast majority of games incredibly killer sided just to balance around the few games that go quickly (which often times, the killer fails to apply pressure in). Increasing generator times seems like an obvious move on the surface, but in practice, it wouldn't accomplish much.
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I don't really agree with that assessment. 140 seconds extra time is a big deal. even if all 3 survivors working on generators, 40 seconds is more time to search for survivors, an extra chase and extra hook chance. I would say that a killer chances to win generally speaking increase the longer the game is. You can even look at a guy named Tru3Ta1ent who consistently hits red ranks killer in under a week every rank reset because he can dumpster purple rank survivors who unoptimal at doing generators and can win chases rapidly. The current analytics of the game just don't make much sense. If you have 30 seconds to find a survivor, 30 second chases and 15 carrying to a hook, that's like 85 seconds per hook. In that time, survivors are capable of doing 3 generators. so in 2 chases, it's possible to complete entire game and killers need at least 3-9 hooks to have a chance at winning the game. It's just not very realistically for killers to achieve their win condition even if your a best killer in the world with 4000 hours of experience. Further evidence can be seen by the killer Nurse who has fastest tracking via perks, fastest chase times, lethality and map presence and even with all those insane traits, It's still possible to lose because of game speed. Just like you said, if your playing well as survivor, you'll win anyway but at least killer will have greater chance of winning than they do currently.
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Gen times don’t need increased, people just need to accept they won’t win every game.
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I understand that, but I see killers run here to forums to complain that they're not getting 4k for majority of their games which goes to show they won't accept that statement. Had they just increased Gen time in the very beginning before choosing to nerf survivors and buff killers there wouldn't have been this much of a problem. If a killer can't manage to get at least a hook before two gens with gen time of 1 minute and 80 second at that point its not game mechanics it's just the killer him/herself. They should've at least tested it in the beginning.
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As we see now 80 seconds (1 minute and 20 seconds) apparently still isn't enough time for killers to do anything had they just up gen time slightly before nerfing and buffing the game would've balance itself out. If you can't at least get a hook in 2 minutes then you're just bad.
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