pig needs buffs honestly
Its like taking a hammer and nail to the pig only, there is no nail and you keep hammering a non existent nail. Like you nerf pig so many times. Like no sloppy butcher when ambush? like what? and the pig skillchecks arent hard at all. I suggest to make them really hard. like maybe brand new part difficult.
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I would have to respectfully disagree with the Pig being weak- but making the skill checks for removing a RBT hard wouldn't be an option. If you have a new player that has a hard time with skill checks (or someone with a disability), that's basically a guaranteed death. It's one thing to miss a skill check on a generator and take a few more seconds, it's another to straight up kill them.
There's a silver lining to the ambush change; you can now down the obsession with STBFL without losing stacks by using the ambush. Since that change, she has not been nerfed.
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Most killers powers tend to not work with basic hit attacks and tbh allowing this would only really help with lower ranked players.
Skill checks again won't help against the better survivors and only serve to hurt the lower ranks or new players.
There are already numerous threads about how new players and how people struggle to get friends to keep playing.
The Pig does need some love but those need to help with the high rank play without making it seemingly too daunting for new players to verse.
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Well, she wasn't weak before you started to nerf her every single update since the End Game collapse. Now, she's arguably the worst killer with no chase ability, little stealth ability and moderate map pressure ability. Some would call Clown/Legion worse but at least Clown and Legion can be devastating with good addons. Pig doesn't even have that.
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She cant sneak around well. she moves slower in crouch mode and she cant even do anything in crouch mode besides ambush which charges and survivors get an alert. She should at least be able be faster in crouch mode
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Instant down perks, Sloppy Butcher, Surge and other perks got weaker on Pig in exchange for STBFL to be a little bit better on her, so that change was indeed a nerf to her.
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Ehhh, I think Pig is weak, but I think there are Killers weaker. Wraith, Doc, Leatherface.
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Could there be a point in time when the pig didn't make that roar way before she even dashes? Not much of an ambush if you give them warning before she even does the dash, it's way better to just uncrouch and m1.
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The ambush attacks is too situational. Sorry but in the most scenerios I prefer to just stand up and then attack the survivor. Maybe if you guys buff Ambush to be faster than sprint burst, then maybe it would be worthy. Also her traps should work until the end-game collapse is active and when is active it would slow the timer :) THANK YOU.
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I would also have to disagree about dash being too situational. There's some pretty good Pig players out there that can use it pretty frequently. It can take a good portion of loops and make them unsafe.
I would normally refer to Scorpionz, but he's out for Twitchcon at the moment.
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Scorpionz? The guy who main Pig? I played against him once, in the open field he didn't had a chance to use the dash against me, same with crouch strategy, it doesn't work on me. Sorry I didn't saw any good player Pig from very long time. Only the Pig players that can tunnel you with the RBT.
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Doesn't Scorpionz only play Pig though?
Still that doesn't change the fact that she needed improvements before the devs nerfed her.
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Hey, sometimes good players know how to make weak characters seem strong. :P
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I feel that she is definitely still a viable character, her power isnt what it used to be because of the endgame collapse, i think she just needs tweaks, slight reworks not her whole kit
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How about making the traps not tied to gen finishes? You only get 4 of them, they are fairly easy to remove, and it gives Pig an end game. If there needs to be starting method outside of being placed, then make it when raised from dying or rescued from hook. Another option is to bring Tampered Timer down from a purple addon to a green or yellow. It's one thing to ease the burden on a new player but they don't remain new for long at which point they view Pig traps as a non issue.
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Pig is... a nuisance at best. Her dash is VERY situational. Most loops are too safe to get a hit and at best you can force them to drop the pallet early. Even then, they get a minimum for 8 more seconds. Her traps BARELY slow down the game against half decent Survivors and her crouch is too slow to be useful for mindgames.
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As someone who's played Pig quite a lot VS most other Killers... She needs some looking at. Her add-ons are so blase, little more than a slightly hindrance or for meme builds. Her dash ambush is mostly useless... occasionally used near the beginning of a match for jumpscare opening and MAYBE some mindgame use at loops.
However, more often than not people use her crouch to get close and just sit up and smack a Survivor. Her RBTs are (as have always been) time wasting uses, however the Endgame changes neutered the endgame pressure she could utilize. To say she's just fine & doesn't need any kind of change is just ridiculous.
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I think the biggest thing she needs is an add-on pass, as she has a LOT of add-ons that are just bad. Beyond that, a few changes here and there to her base could go a long way.
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- Her combat straps add-on could be included as base kit.
- She should have 5 jigsaw boxes as default.
- Her traps should have a high chance or guarantee of not being removed on the first jigsaw box search.
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@Peanits Come on, you guys don't wanna see more Pig Mains in the game? Adjust the ambush and her RBT in the end game collapse and I think she will be okay. Here is my changes:
- 3 seconds duration of Ambush Attack, movement speed during that: 7m/s
- Slightly increase the Ambush charge time by +0.25s to compare the balance of new Ambush.
- Reverse bear trap now works in end-game collapse. If the survivor is on the hook/dying state/ chased by the Pig the timer of EGC is stopped. If there is any survivor with RBT, EGC timer is slowed.
- Rules set 2.0 is her base kit now.
There you go.. This 4 changes would make her better :)
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Rule Set no. 2 being base kit would arguably make her worse unless you're running Tampered Timer (in which case, you just cross your fingers and hope you get lucky with the traps). The whole point of the RBT is to force them off of generators. Rule Set no. 2 goes against that; it blocks the box auras until a generator has been powered. You're giving the survivor two choices: 1) Run around the map looking for boxes, spending who knows how long searching for them, or 2) Just do a generator anyway and then take your RBT off.
Since there's more than enough time to get it off, you could easily afford to do a generator and then search. It can have some niche use with Tampered Timer or Jigsaw's Sketch, but you wouldn't want to have it unless you're using one of those two with it.
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Maybe I am interpreting this wrong, but it seems to me like the argument you are making is that Rules Set No. 2 is bad overall.
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Peanits, can Pig have RSN2?
This would do one of two things:
- Waste the survivors' time by looking for a Jigsaw Box.
- If survivors complete a generator instead of getting the trap off, they risk dying to the trap because they are now on a timer. Sure, traps aren't meant to kill survivors, since they wanted to take the risk — they get the risk they wanted. Fair is fair in my opinion.
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@Peanits why couldn't the traps require 2 keys to take off and adjust the timer to balance that out?
Also I understand the EGC change, but why can't she have the traps between the last gen and when the EGC actually starts?
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In some ways, yes, in other ways, no.
If you combine it with other add-ons, like the ones mentioned, it can be okay. You're still leaving a lot up to luck, but it might pay off. If you use it on its own, it might actually hurt you more than it helps.
There are some pig add-ons that we would like to change. The Pig is on the to-do list for add-on updates.
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There should be at least a scoring event for getting a hit when you just uncrouch... similar to wraiths surprise attack scoring event...
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you're forgetting also Jigsaw's Annotated Plan (for the lower level pigs), interlocking razor if you're doing a hard skillcheck build, bag of gears to increase search time, and crate of gears to also increase search time... and if you're doing the impossible skill checks thing you could also go for workshop grease or razor wires to increase the chances of a skillcheck popping up...
just to... name a few more possibilities for a base kit Rules Set No. 2. I think you're thinking a little too small, theres definitely some variety that can be done with the traps, and even more so if it was base.
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What's the difference? They still need to take off the RBT, so it's completely ok. And survivors will have more playstyles thanks to it 😁
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Would it be possible to give Pig 5 jigsaw boxes as default?
It makes the boxes more threatening, but not impossible to get off.
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Glad to hear Pig add-ons are on the list. And it is good to hear specific dev insight like this to get their perspective on things.
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The difference is the generator going off. If they can take it off anytime, they'd be more likely to take it off as soon as possible and then do a generator (at which point, you probably should have been able to down and hook somebody else). If they don't see auras until a generator goes off, it becomes way more efficient to do a generator and then search. When the idea behind the RBT is to slow down generators, encouraging them to do a generator is a little counterproductive.
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I would like to be able to replenish traps from box or something it be alot more fun to be able to have more during the match
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I appreciate the feedback and clarity, but did you see my reasoning on why RSN2 should be base?
Personally, I think it helps the Pig in all situations in my opinion.
They either waste time finding a Jigsaw Box, or they do a generator and now they have to worry about a timer. :)
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Give it a chance, at least in the PTB. Let's see if the people will like it or not. She needs some love though 🐷🐽
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Since RBT don't trigger at the exit gates anymore they should just pop when the last gen does.
😁
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Scorpionz doesn't even utilize all of Pigs power correctly tho? All he does is ambush.
Barely stealths, doesn't properly manage traps etc. He isn't that good of a pig tbh, but he is better than most players.
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Skill checks aren't a buff. Huntress's, Ruin, Overcharge, they're not as useful when you climb the ranks for a reason, because they're a nuisance rather than a barrier.
However, Pig does need some love. It's been pretty clear that she's lowest on the dev's priorities, considering that most every mechanical change implemented for over a year has negatively impacted Pig play - she wasn't that strong to begin with, and while I still get my 4k games I imagine it'd be a nightmare for people new or even moderately skilled at playing her.
Her stealth has been invalidated, her speeds are a joke, her RBTs more limiting on her than on Survivors, the Ambush is more situational than ever because gaining benefit with one perk wasn't equivalent to losing benefit from multiple, et al.
Her 'slowdown' just doesn't exist in a game where 99ing also exists, and it's invalid versus people able to power through and juggle chase - tunnels are how a lot of my fellow Pigs get kills, which is just pathetic, and if that's what development wants: that makes the dev team pathetic in their goals.
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How about a slight tweak to RSN2 and instead of making you completely blind when trapped it shows you one of two boxs which is in between the closest and the furthest. It give players options and if the pig is using tampered timer a good reason to get it off or at least know where the others are before a gen pops.
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This wouldn't be the sort of thing you need to test in the PTB. You could test it on live right now by using Rule Set no. 2.
I've watched him pretty often and he does use the stealth pretty often. He uses Monitor & Abuse with Whispers so he knows when he's close to a survivor before they can hear the terror radius to crouch, then sneaks up and goes for a grab/ambush. Granted, that won't always be an option if the generator is in the open or the survivors are already on the lookout.
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I understand what are you saying, but I need to point out, why is this even a ultra rare if even you say is such a bad add-on by itself.
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But they don't see the aura of these jigsaw boxes, so they still waste their time and if they want the survivors need to remember these boxes placement. It still gives you a lot amount of time. :) Survivor who don't spend time on repairing gen is still good.
What about the changes to ambush attacks? It would be still counterable. :)
Oh and also the changes to EGC when survivor has RBT on head? :)
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He did say that Pig is on their list for add-on revision, for what it is worth.
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You are correct, assuming they try to take off their trap before it's active. Though they would have 2:30 to remove it after it's activated, which would be enough time to check all four boxes, so you don't need to worry about searching for boxes before a generators goes off.
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But the purpose of this traps are to slow the game down and not killing the survivors, so I thought you will be okay with that...Perhaps you guys want to make her traps more lethal?
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He's saying that in practice, Survivors affected by Rules Set No. 2 tend to just do a gen and light up the box auras, which means the Traps are LESS effective at slowing the game down.
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I'll gladly let them work on a generator and being on a timer. Now they only have 2:30 minutes to search 4 boxes all around the map. Instead of 2:30 minutes + however long they wanna take getting to the boxes.
Survivors already fix a generator before taking the trap off anyway (or do 1 box and a generator). Because it's already more efficient.
This change only changes 1 aspect, the wasted time taking mask off, it's either before or after a gen gets done. I preffer the second, on a timer a survivor is way more likely to make mistakes and rush things.
If the trap is active I know for a fact he is looking for a box, if it isn't active he could be anywhere, making it harder to find him. And getting a hook because of this might be the difference between a win or a loss.
I really don't see how the pig having RSN2 as base would be anything but beneficial to her.
Can we test this on the ptb?
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if, theres only 4 boxes, they arent running bag or crate of gears, they dont push you off the boxes, arent running tampered timer, using interlocking razor and you happen to fail a skillcheck, doing a full on impossible skillchecks build.
also your point on "unless youre pairing it with something else"... if you're not using add ons or certain perks to boost your traps, you're either new to pig, or focusing more on her ambush than the traps.
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No, quite the opposite.
Showing auras right away encourages the survivor to immediately go and try to take it off. They're not doing a generator while they do that. That's one fewer survivors on generators.
Showing auras only once a generator is completed leaves you with two options. Do a generator and then look, or waste a ton of time looking. A new player that doesn't know what they're doing might go looking, but most people are just going to do a generator and then take off their trap. If they do a generator so they can see the boxes, your add-on just backfired.
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in my opinion rule set no. 2 shouldnt let you get traps off before it starts and it should show auras within a certain radius. makes it scary, but fun
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