Best Of

I haven't played those games nor am I involved in any other game community so idk what goes on there, but am I mistaken in understanding those are the kinds of games I mentioned, where the base roles are on fairly equal footing with fairly equal objectives? Like not just power-wise, but narrative-wise? Also, Arc Raiders is like two months old. That's not an equivalent comparsion to DbD's near decade of player baggage.

You seem to want a simple answer to a psychological effect that's probably very layered. I'd imagine it partially has something to do with what personality types are drawn to this game, and even more so which ones choose to speak about it. Lots of people play it. Only some feel personally slighted and complain on the internet. We talk a lot about loud minorities here but that's what we all are simply by taking a game seriously enough to even care to discuss this.

I think one part of it is what you perceive your opponent is getting out of it. I've come across and spoken to people who genuinely want to make people suffer and feel awful and use the games mechanics to do that. They feel as though thier punishing them and they enjoy doing it. Just knowing that someone whose slugging you over and over for what appears to be kicks is going to heighten your own emotional response.

What makes DBD so special that someone can't sit for 4 minutes on the ground so they can die?

I mentioned being humped, not the lengthy time spent doing nothing. I'm just going to assume you're not defending the former option.

It's partially agency, partially respect. As someone who doesn't use the abandon, I'm still getting left on the ground a lot as survivor while the killer closes the hatch and break pallets. They don't care that I'm a real person and not a bot, they just care about getting a few more bloodpoints, at the expense of being decent to your opponent. This outward lack of respect is part of this game's toxicity. I don't linger at the exit gates until the timer is done and make the killler wait, and I don't leave people on the ground a second longer than needed to wrap up the match, but people do it constantly and that builds up the anger. Look how often people complain about tbagging at the gates. These things actually make this community hate each other.

The other half is the agency. There's no retaliation or comeback. I'm very much for anti-slug. I don't think slugging for the 4k should be a thing. However it comes about, cool, but players shouldn't have to taste the ground for however long thier opponent decides simply because they chose to.

Admitting to having zero empathy for other players, including your teammates, while resting on your laurels as they drag you across the finish line is… certainly a flex. "If more people thought like you" then your escape rate would be in single digits. Sentiments like i last longer in chase than a lot of people mean nothing if you actively avoid ever being spotted. Also Just because i dont let myself get chased doesnt mean im not doing my part. is an oxymoron when drawing the killer's attention away from vulernable teammates is part of "your part." Again, if its a 6 hook game and you have 0 hooks, everyone else is on death hook and your chances of being one hooked (either by being left there, or nobody being in a position to save you) go up exponentially.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with avoiding the killer strategically. Making them waste time searching near a 75% complete gen, misleading them away from someone who might be getting tunneled, being on death hook and banking on the killer dumping extra effort into finding you, there are absolutely times where stealth is a very smart play. But avoidance is actively not, and the game design for everything minus the hatch is centered around interaction more than non-interaction. If you can't understand any of this, at least try to understand that you are being an active detriment to your team if you refuse to engage with the killer, especially if you "last longer in chase than a lot of people."

Thing is in Rust, some servers does not allow offline-raiding, so that point is only semi-valid.

As for DotA/League and those kinds of games, if it is truly lost, you have a surrender vote option, if your team agrees. That way you don't have to sit through an hour-long game if you know your odds are highly stacked against you.

While I have never played Arc Raiders myself, I don't see this problem being any different from a game like Rust. The general idea is to trust no one, unless you know their intentions.

What this translates to in DBD terms would be something different.

Let's say for the Rust-dilemma, that you have a custom lobby with a game-rule in place, where if you try to tunnel someone out, you would be automatically disconnected, and locked out of the killer role until the lobby leader gives you permission again.

For the DotA/League dilemma, this could easily be implemented into DBD with a surrender vote function (would count as a loss) instead of surrender = DC (with penalties).

And as for the Arc Raiders dilemma, just assume that the opposite side will play in a default manner, unless you take the initiative yourself to just goof off or doing something unexpected.

And lastly, would YOU enjoy being bled out by the killer while they are BM'ing you for 4 minutes? If no, then you'd understand how other players feel about it as well, and why YOU shouldn't do it as a killer.

I agree a lot of bitterness seems to come from a lack of general empathy. And yes, everyone should at least try out both roles, but everyone has preferences and those preferences shouldn’t be invalidated.

I think a major issue is that people want to treat both roles as the same, and they’re not. You can’t balance for the killer role the same way you would survivor and vice versa. There are certain things you must accept depending on which role your play, and you have to acknowledge that the other role has different things they have to accept.

People are way too crazy for a tit-for-tat. It’s rampant in the forums and YouTube comments and Reddit, this whole idea that: If this role gets a buff then the other needs compensation. If this role gets a base-kit change then the other needs one too. Etc.

You can’t balance the roles the same way. And just because 1 role needs X it doesn’t mean the other role needs X too. I think people get way too caught up in tally marks rather than what those marks actually mean for the game as a whole and not just the role that they don’t enjoy as much as the other.

I think a less heavy-handed way of addressing this might be to make it that some of the strongest Killer perks deactivate once a Survivor is dead, like Hex: Ruin used to. If a Killer wants to tunnel early to try and guarantee a win, that's their prerogative, but then they shouldn't also get to benefit from really powerful slowdown or regression like Pain Res, Grim Embrace and Dead Man's Switch on top of having a numbers advantage. That way there is an *optional* system of disincentive for tunnelling that doesn't just punish Killers for existing like the previous attempts at universal anti-tunnelling changes did. It would also help if they buffed some of the weak Killer perks that rely on spreading pressure to function, like Ravenous, Dying Light, Thanatophobia, Furtive Chase, Hex: Huntress' Lullaby, Friends Till The End etc.

This seems like a non-sequitur.

@killer_hugs is explaining why the game breaks down IF a certain scenario occurs.

Discussing HOW that situation can be avoided is a different topic, especially being as survivor you don't have control over the other three players.

Yeah, you're right, I do not understand. It's a game, not a war. The people you play with and against are often kids. "At all costs" is a wild approach to gaining internet points that have no value and no one cares about. You're not even playing comp, where people at least have the same mindset. You're proud of one upping players who probably don't even care that they lost.

But if you're the one that gets tunneled and the other three walk out, you're satisfied?

Because SWF comes in a lot of shapes and sizes and blanket nerfs don't make sense. There are far more people partying up for the sake of fun and socializing than there are psycho cordinated teams with clock callouts. The game would make no distinction between extremes, like those psycho teams and two people who added each other in-game from different platforms and have never been on comms. All this would do is make SWF players just as miserable as many soloqers. Communal misery is not a solution. Lifting soloq up is.

You saying "survivors constantly ask for killer buffs" is super biased. I play both. There are killers I absolutely want nerfed, and others I want buffed. Everyone should be an A-C killer. There should be nothing above or below that.

I don’t explain because no explanation is needed. Your question is merely posed from the perspective of a killer. Your problem is that you pretend to know nothing at all.