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W Mandy response. ❤️

Can pin this thread for 24 hours to continue to give Count some love.

Here's my feedback regarding Diminishing returns as a healing build enjoyer:

First thing - 'Builds it has affected the most':

On the survivor side, 'Healing' centric builds are the main thing that has taken a hit from these changes and I believe that was one of the intentions behind the system to begin with as it was quite well known that fast healing on the survivor side can completely break the game for a lot of the Killer roster.

The issue is, the best healing perks in the game (We'll make it, We're gonna live forever, Botany Knowledge and Circle of Healing) are all good by themselves and usually aren't the perks that get toned down by Diminishing returns. It's the weaker perks that suffer, effectively making them dead perk slots if you run them with the better perks despite the weaker perks usually being good 'combo' pieces when combined.

Let's take two weaker perks and combo them together and see what happens:

Example: Desperate measures + Empathic connection:

So Desperate Measures increases healing speed & unhooking speed by 20% per injured survivor and Empathic connection increases altruistic healing speed by 35%. Now think about this:

Desperate measures at 1 injury goes from 20% to 10%

Then 2 injuries it goes to 40%, causing empathic connection to be permanently set to 17.5%. Making it effectively a dead perk slot outside of it's aura, despite this being such a small increase

This just means people will look at these perks and just go "nah, medkits, wglf, botany knowledge and we'll make it or nothing".

tl;dr: When it comes to healing, the system makes weak perks weaker and only slightly tones down the stronger combos. Also does nothing about Resurgence which undermines the whole notion of Diminishing returns helping combat fast heal speeds.

Second Thing - Gen rush/speed increase builds were not really affected:

So 'generator speed' stacking perks do get toned down by Diminishing returns. That is a fact and personally I think that's for the best overall. a lot of Killers struggle with generators as is and feel the need to run slowdown perks to help. The issue though the best 'genrush' combos were not toned down in the slightest by Diminishing returns.

The only generator speed increases you're going to see people using outside of toolboxes are resillience, deja-vu and prove thyself and that's it. I highly doubt diminishing returns impacts any of these perks to any significant degree.

Hyperfocus + Stake out have 0 interactions with diminishing returns as far as I can tell as none of them actually modify the 'speed' of the repairs, what they do is increase the amount of progress a skillcheck gives a generator and correct me if I'm wrong but that isn't in the list of modifiers on the list.

I've missed a ton of stuff from the Killer side but I haven't experience much of the system on the Killer side, I imagine its mainly impacting haste centric builds or full gen speed debuff builds like thana + dying light + pentimento or something like that.

1 fast tracked was not an issue, 4 fast tracks was huge issue

This type of trigger is simply problematic on survivors with how easy is to stack it. I think change to the trigger was good, but % should be higher imo.

You just can't have triggers in type of "whenever something happens on map" for survivors, because it's impossible to balance.
You know how broken Inner healing would be if it was "whenever totem is cleansed" as Secret Project has it.

On killers you need to balance perk for 1 player and you just have to deal with classic Nurse vs Trapper problem.
On survivors you can't balance global effect when survivors can you use it once, or 4 times. You do it by making it personal trigger, so it becomes more limited resource.

Only other way is to simply make the effect weak….

I strongly disagree with your pov

Calm spirit as an example can counter doctor's shock therapy and static blast

Spirit - iron will

Etc

As killer you can't adjust your ability to survs

Are we also going to buff nurse because she's often the lowest kill rate? Just looking at only the numbers doesn't tell the whole story.

For example, look at all of the killers performing the best in the broad category:

• Lich
• Freddy
• Sadako
• Dredge
• Pinhead

What do all of these killers have in common? They have a power that is difficult for a newer player to understand and/or a secondary objective.

Lich chests are confusing to new players. Waking up is confusing against freddy. Sadako tapes, dredge nightfall, pinhead box. Pinhead also isn't available anymore, so players will play against him far less often.

All of these killers have mechanics that you have to play against them several times to really fully understand what is going on in order to deal with them.

Similarly, if they released the bottom 5 killers, i'd suspect they would be something along the lines of:

• Nurse
• Hag
• Doctor
• Huntress
• Skull merchant

Now skull merchant would likely be there just because she is legitimately a bad killer at this point. Doctor would be there because he is a favorite killer for those afk bots that just spam shocks for bloodpoints. And nurse hag and Huntress are going to be there because they are killers that are quite difficult to play without using their powers, and their powers are difficult for lesser skilled players to use.

This doesn't necessarily mean we should just buff all 5 of these killers (probably SM needs buffs, and i'd say doctor might need a slight buff [maybe just make a few addons basekit or something]) But do the others need buffs too?

I'd love for the devs to show on the post-game screen exactly who were playing as a swf so people will have a nice wake-up call that they're not playing against 4man swf as much as they think they are. Sometimes their opponents just play better than they do

Thank you ao much. Im color blind and this changes is amazing. Not sure this is really a discussion but BHVR this is the best change in my time playing. Thank you so much 🫡