To All Who Think Spirit is OK in her Current State:
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lmao keep living in delusion.
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I can counter her in red ranks, it isn’t a delusion.
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How would you define counterplay?
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have you played spirit? don't confuse someone being good at a killer with the general OP of that specific character. there's a reason she is labeled hard to play. i can guarantee that if they nerf her , the people playing her will either continue to play her and nothing will change or play another killer and then 3 months down the road they will nerf that killer because their too op. same thing happened to nurse, everyone went on and on about the changes..but then none of it mattered lol. the people who are good at this game, good at nurse..continued to be good at this game and good at nurse.
this will become a bit more noticeable whenever they change the ranking system and people are actually at the ranks they belong at.
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show gameplay of u playing with evidence of consistent counterplay and il believe u
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Lol comments tend to disagree with you
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You just described Blendette in corn.
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Methods to survive her, like her animation reset, glittering body, glowing glass shards (first three things listed only happen while she is phasing) and pallets/windows.
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But you have missed the whole point of this post. It isnt about what is op and what isnt, its about the reasons people find Spirit unfun to play against, you can’t decide for people if they have fun or not. That is the message, but people tend to go off point and deter from the original message.
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And. What because I don't have a problem playing against. It's not hard to out play her. You guys that complain don't want to learn. Just want #########.
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And here I thought I was the only one
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You mean like the magician in Identity V? Sure why not, he's fun to play against.
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show gameplay evidence of consistent counterplay and il believe u, every spirit main becomes defensive and bitchy the moment anyone asks. other wise youre completely wrong and delusional. PROVE IT
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I don’t have any recorded gameplay since I don’t upload gameplay but why don’t you show me your gameplay against really good survivors with spirit? If she is truly op then you’ll have no trouble proving me wrong.
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Many killer players don't find looping fun.
Decisive strike isn't fun for killers.
The hatch and slugging for the 4k isn't fun.
Infinite loops aren't fun.(Ironworks, Suffocation pit, haddonfield)
gen rush isn't fun.
Going against swf groups isn't fun.
See the problem with your argument yet?
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His survey was geared towards survivors.
Of course the majority will say she's unfun to go against when the survey is framed to end up with that result.
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watch any good spirit player you dont need me for that lmfaoooo theres tons of spirit gameplay but no actual evicence of consistent counterplay
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"Imagine that the roles are reversed, when a survivor activates their power every 15 seconds they can go invisible, leave no way of tracking but know exactly where you (the killer) is because of sound, grass, corn etc. Now imagine if this happened at every loop, for every survivor. You wouldn’t want to play. Now imagine this happened more often in red ranks, every few games, or multiple consecutive games in a row. You wouldn’t like GUESSING where the survs go every chase, would you? Now that you have read this, please tell me how, as killer, you would counter the survivors?"
I definitely wouldn't want to live in a world where, at red ranks, survivors can use windows and structures to break line of sight, forcing me to guess/mindgame them while they can still see my red stain.
I can only imagine how painful such tactics would be multiplied by 4!
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Like seriously. This is the magician:
His power is literally just the Spirit's power.
Movement speed increase? Check
Total invisibility? Check
Lack of cue for the other side? Check
Husk left behind for stand still mindgames? Check
And guess what? This works fine. So heck yeah a Survivor invisibility item could work.
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Oh yeah, and unlike the Spirit he doesn't spend a few seconds channeling it first.
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Going against SWF can be fun.
Gen rush is only a thing if you let it happen, try to 3 gen strat if this is a problem.
any smart killer main knows to not follow a survivor to an infinite, but to rather pressure gens.
The hatch can be closed, it is your choice to slug or not, it is not forced.
Decisive Strike is easily countered by leaving them or not tunneling them and is a fair perk, anyone who complains about this still baffles me.
Looping and winning mindgames at loops is fun.
See the problem with yours?
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fun is really a relevant term. you can lose every match you play in this game, suck at it, and still play it and have fun. on the other end of the scale, you can win every match, get to rank 1, and not have fun at all playing this game despite winning.
too much emphasis is being put on people having fun. it's up to the individual person to approach th is game with an attitude that allows them to have fun in the first place. there are far too many killers that have garbage useless base perks (huntress, ghost face, plague, etc) ..none of them get any changes. ALl the changes are dedicated to killers that people aren't having fun playing against. THe danger of this, is that it isn't the killers not causing people to have fun , it's the players they are being matched against who are good at the game to the point they just annihilate everyone regardless of what killer they play. All that ends up happening when they do this, when they don't make changes to any of the other killers, to the rank system or to anything, but just keep nerfing killers that "aren't fun" is that the players playing them play other killers and then those killers "aren't fun" to play against.
It's not the spirit with the issue. It's a combination of the useless mmr , the fact that 10% of ppl even play killer causing what seems like a high percentage of OP killers and the toxic survivors who don't have fun regardless of whether they win or lose.
they need to start focusing on issues that actually matter instead of nerfing the killers that are being played so much by good players. I honestly see no reason to even nerf the spirit, other than those who are really good at her are causing the higher population of survivors to not have fun..which..isn't a valid reason imo.
i didn't miss the point..just didn't communicate too well lol.
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yes exactly. and the sad part is, even after they nerf her, the people who are good at her will continue to be good at her, because good players adapt.
never ending cycle.
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Nope- now there are two of us xD
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I don't record. Don't hang around pallets, don't run around in view of the spirit or attempt to hide if she's just standing there. Lead to scratch marks to a window, but don't hop it go back to the way you came. All kinds of ways if you think.
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surround sound simulated headset - check
computer that isn't 10 years old or modern console - check
modern graphics card capable of displaying animations (grass, shadows) properly - check
controller in relatively good shape to eliminate any input lag or otherwise improper commands - check
proper sleep/diet/health - check
regular practice - check
researching on the internet , youtube videos - check
playing the killer yourself - check
1000 hours or more playing the game - check
once you have all that, simply pay attention to audio visual ques , take your understanding of how people play this killer and how she works and voila. it's pretty basic stuff that anyone who get's good at playing any video game does.
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Billy is so horrible vs competent survivors who play optimal.
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So you honestly tell people they ignore cold hard facts when you haven't seen them yourself.
And it comes down to hearsay and believing someone else. Am I the only person having a problem with that?
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You've highlighted the problem with your own argument without realizing it lol good job!
Fun is subjective so balance shouldn't be solely based around someone's arbitrary definition of fun.
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Then I guess this is evidence
plenty of spirit games in this tournament.
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Sounds like someone understands the Spirits power, and just needs to learn to play differently.
Not all Killers can be thwarted by the same ole game play ( ie looping and pallets).
Adapt
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No, my argument was NEVER about balancing the game around being fun. You have not read proporly. Fun is subjective, but the post detailed as to why Spirit is deemed to be unfun for some. Got that? It was aimed to give people an understanding of the other person’s pov.
Lol you’ve shown that you dont read carefully, Good job!
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€dit:
Oh snap @GrootDude beat me to it :(
I just edited the video out so we do not clutter the thread with it. A video is fine posted once.
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The fun of spirit is having a challenge. I really dont understand how you can have fun by purely steam rolling over people or what not. That's why I dontemjoy fighting most Wraiths or Clown; they just dont have great or intresting abilitys that actually challenge me in a PVP game.
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Found the "killer main."
Have some class, if you won't bring anything to an argument, perhaps its best for you to listen.
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He is saying if she is supposed to be so broken then anyone can easily 4k with her. As such you should be able to make a video of you doing this consistently against any survivors, particularly good survivors, since if there is indeed no counter play to Spirit then your skill as killer and the survivor skill should be irrelevant.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Claiming she is broken overpowered and has no counter play is the claim, therefore you should be able to prove exactly this.
EDIT: Additionally, it seems anytime someone presents evidence contrary to the popular belief that Spirit has no counter play it gets dismissed as "bad Spirit not real counter play". So even if when we provide evidence it is ignored.
Post edited by thesuicidefox on4 -
Not totally a choice. My PS4 controller is broken: whether headphones are being used or not, the controller constantly thinks headphones are being plugged in and unplugged, and every time it does that it changes the audio output. It's super distracting, not only because of audio going in and out, but also because a bunch of little messages will pop up at the corner of the screen going "ding ding ding" each time it happens (which, can sometimes be as often as every ten seconds or so).
But it's not really irrelevant. You said imagine the roles are reversed. I said I'm practically playing that, and it's not that bad. I'd prefer having good audio, but it's not so unfun that I've stopped playing the game because of it. I'm dealing with it and trying to learn to play around it.
Everyone's going to find different things in the game fun vs unfun. I can understand why some find Spirit unfun to go against. Personally, there are other killers I find unfun; Spirit I don't mind. But that's subjective.
The devs are really bad at balancing around fun in this game. Nurse is not fun to play as, now. I don't think Legion's ever been a fun, rewarding killer to play as. Plague's only fun with Corrupt Purge, which can be easily denied by survivors. I only find Ghostface fun because he can teabag. When they mess with Spirit, if they touch her base kit rather than just tweak her add-ons, they're going to make her not fun to play as. That's their M.O.
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Her counter play comes down to "you guessed right" in most situations. Meanwhile she can see your scratch marks, see you moving the grass, hear your grunts of pain, breathing, footsteps, can literally collide with you and doesn't really guess much. She constantly reacts to survivors actions but survivors play random guessing games. That's the point. If you count guessing right as a counter play then sure, she has plenty of counterplays.
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-yawns- She's fine, yeah annoying at times but eh what can you do? It's one out of like 6 matches I get her anyway if I'm unlucky.
1 out of 200 if I'm very "unlucky" lol.
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You act like it's impossible to predict another player consistently.
Look up 50/50 mixups in regards to fighting games. That is literally what Spirit does, yet you don't see FGC players complaining about 50/50 mixups, because it comes down to prediction. Humans are creatures of habits, we have predictable behavior patterns. And they are hard if not impossible to overcome. No human can ever play a game and make completely random decisions. There will be a pattern. If you realize this pattern you can "guess right" as you put it more often than you "guess wrong".
I've chased survivors that "guess right" almost every time I try any sort of trick on them as Spirit. It's because they were able to predict me consistently by seeing my patterns.
Based on your perspective, it would be impossible for anyone to consistently win at Poker. Yet we have very clear examples of that being false. Therefore, it is entirely possible to consistently predict what a Spirit play will do and act accordingly. There is very little "guessing" involving. If you are guessing you are inherently doing it wrong.
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It isn't impossible to predict consistently but it's very luck based for the most part.
Like I said, spirit doesn't do much guessing, they are reacting for the most part. Survivors do almost no reacting and pure guessing ,that's why it is so unenjoyable to go against her for a lot of players. Especially after you are injured, there isn't much you can do at all unless she makes a mistake, since she can hear your grunts.
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No it's not luck. Stop saying it's luck. If you see a pattern in behavior and can predict with good accuracy what the other player will do, that is NOT luck. Luck is when something happens to benefit you that you did not plan for. If I'm walking around and Ghostface just go strolling by in Night Shroud, just happens to be facing away from me and didn't see me, THAT is luck. Predicting what another player will do with high accuracy is the opposite of luck.
The sooner you stop thinking about countering Spirit in terms of "guessing" and "luck" the sooner you will learn howto actually counter her.
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Funny, a while ago surv were complaining about nurse being unfun. spirit is the new trending hated killer. I bet the next one will be ghostface (he hides his terror radius, how broken and unfun, no counter!!)
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See here is the problem I have with the fighting game analogy. You say even with 50/50s you can predict your opponent eventually and make a decision based off of that.
First of all, its not a 50/50. The Spirit has way more information than you. She moves almost twice your speed while phasing so even if she commits to a wrong direction and then hears you somewhere else she can still rectify it and go back.
Even then, lets assume it is a 50/50. You said you analyze the player and make predictions, not guesses, off of that. This works in fighting games because you have 3 rounds of multiple hits to figure out your opponent.
This is not at all the case in DBD. To compare it back to your fighting game example, it would be like if every move every opponent did was a 50/50 and instead of it taking 20 hits to K.O an opponent, it takes two hits. Not even the greatest FGC players alive can analyze and find a pattern in an opponent in two hits. Its impossible. You're just guessing. You tell yourself you mindgamed them when you guess right, and say you misplayed when you guess wrong. That's it. You can't tell who the killer player is before hand, you can't study what she's doing with her power until she's basically already downed you with it, and even then, you have basically no sample size and its not even close to enough repetition to find a pattern you can exploit in your opponent.
Even staunch Spirit supporters like tru3 say they "guessed wrong" when they are downed by her.
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I am a survivor main and short of prayer beads, Spirit is perfect. She's fun to play against
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It is 50/50 because it's independent of the initiating player. The one setting up the 50/50 already knows what they are going to do, so all that matters is your ability to predict what they will do.
As for the lack of info part this isn't exactly true. If you run through a pallet, just the first time, and see the killer respects it then you already have enough info to know they will likely respect it in the future. You really don't need a huge sample size to be able to predict someone, just "what did they do last time". And while the killer could have purposely done this to condition you (a form of mind game) most players will not actively do this unless they suspect you will predict them (ie. you played them before or otherwise showed that you are a smart player).
Like what else would explain how when I get those handful of really good survivors that understand how to play against a Spirit and they just outright predict everything I'm doing even before I did it? Are they really just guessing or are they seeing patterns in my behavior, OR more likely going by experience of what a Spirit player may generally do.
As far as Tru saying he is guessing... saying you guess wronged and actually guess wrong are two different things. He could just be saying it that way to convey he made a mistake, because it's just more common to say "I guess wrong" than "I make the wrong read". I wouldn't read too far into those statements he makes live in the moment it happens.
Like when it comes to red stain mind games, you can "guess right" or "guess wrong" on the very first chase. It's more experience of what to do than experience against that specific player.
Sorry I just don't see any of this as guessing. I've had really good survivors consistently outplay me as Spirit, and I'm not exactly a "bad Spirit" as most people would argue. If what you are saying is true, then these players wouldn't be so outright consistent in their reads. I would catch them at least 50% of the time but that doesn't happen.
Also like I said in your post about your survey, I think PC players have a problem with Spirit because she was just less common pre-nerf Nurse. Now that Nurse is slightly less viable, more players are playing Spirit and since majority of survivors are complete potatoes against her, yea it will seem like she has no counter play. But here on Xbox, Spirit is super common at red ranks. At least 1 in 3 games is Spirit (or more, sometimes you get like 5 games in a row that's Spirit), so Xbox players are just more used to playing against her and as such have found ways to play around her. I do it myself (against good Spirits) and have had it done to me (a good Spirit), so I can't buy into this Spirit hate train that's going on because I don't see these issues.
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Fun is subjective. Also, a killer is only as good as the player who controls them. I'm garbage at nurse and Billy, but I'm great with Legion.
I've seen more mediocre spirit players than good ones.
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Lol this thread went to ######### didn’t it?
Also find it hilarious that survivors are supposed to predict a killer they can’t see using their power. Like how are you supposed to predict something you can’t see or give no warnings when using their power?
No grass, no animation, not even a little sound indicator. You’re telling me the average player is suppose to try to counterplay this while running niche perks that rarely works against the other roster of killers... Oh and don’t get me started on Prayer Beads.
Every other killer has some sort of consistent tell when using their power. Why should Spirit be the only exception?
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People still whining about spirit? Ah dbd
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I'm a killer main and I'm not triggered in the least. We all know that you want her nerfed into the ground so she can be more "fun" to play against. To the devs it's: Survivors complain about no counterplay to a killer = nerf to be completely countered. Boom, "fun". Outside of Freddy, re-works never go as intended.
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