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An idea to make not tunneling more appealing
I think most survivors have been tunneled to oblivion and will probably agree that it’s not very fun. (Yeah, I should maybe avoid this word, but here I go anyway.)
Why does tunneling happen? I think it’s efficient and doesn’t have any downside. 3 survivors do less stuff than 4, so kill one and it’s getting a lot easier. Most games I played where the first survivor died before 1-2 gens are done ended in 2-3 more dead survivors.
I just want to share my idea on how to give an incentive to follow a different playstyle: Adding two new (de)buffs for survivors:
First one I call DESPAIR. After the FIRST survivor DIES (sacrifice/mori/dc), all remaining survivors receive a buff to gen repair speed for the rest of the game.
To compensate this for the killer, I’ll introduce AGONY. After being hooked for the first time, you receive a penalty to gen repair speed for the rest of the game.
You can have both buffs active at the same time.
With this you actually give the killer something for targeting all survivors.
The important thing is that these buffs should (about) cancel each other out, since the killer shouldn’t get a penalty for doing his job, which is killing survivors. So after hooking all survivors and then starting to kill, the killer should be at an advantage. I’m not quite sure about the numbers though. I’d try with +10% for Despair and -15% for Agony. (I propose these should stack additively, so having both buffs resulting in -5% Gen repair speed.)
I play both sides, usually SWF as survivor and killer when alone if this is an important information for anybody.
So, what do you think?
Comments
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I like this idea a lot. There would be an actual incentive in game not to Tunnel and a very good incentive to hook each survivor at least once before thinking about tunneling. Although the percentage of speed sounds a little too much. 15% it's almost a full thanatophobia, this combined with any slowdown perk sounds insane slow. Maybe a 3-5% for Agony and 5-7% for Despair.
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Yeah, the numbers are probably quite high. It's still for a single survivor though, not for all 4, so the number could be a little higher than the number on a perk that affects all survivors. I still think that it should be the other way round, if the killer hooks everybody and then sacrifices a survivor, he did his job, so he should not be dealing with survivors repairing faster.
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I don't think it's good for a high number affecting a single survivor. Seems unfair since that number will soon affect all other survivors and a high number combined with any slowdown perk or a build to slow the game would be VERY SLOW (I use Dying Light, Thanato, Sloppy and Ruin with Wraith for the higher ranks and unless they're all w/ toolboxes, they can't get many gens done before the game completely stops with my DL stacks. If I had the 15% from agony in every survivor, they trying to fix a Gen might make it go backwards). A 3-5% agony and 5-7% despair sounds ok.
I think that the bonus repair speed, even if the killer hooks everyone, it's fair. After all, it will become active only when you kill your first survivor. By that time, you've hooked most survivors twice (if you're not tunneling after you got all 4 hooked once). Either way, they'll repair faster (if there was no tunnel, it's just a 2% bonus speed) but they still in disadvantage as they're 3 and at least one of them it's now being chased. If you are a good killer and didn't Tunnel, a 2% bonus repair speed for the remaining 3 survivors won't matter much.
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Okay, pair this idea with anti gen perks like Thana, Pop, Ruin, etc. Not to mention the op addons out there on various killers. So Survivors can no longer play the game. GREAT! I hope you realize how unfair this would be. People already want gen speed nerfed. You want this idea added in? Not tryin' to be rude, but I don't wanna spend 15 years on a single gen because killers don't want the survivors to play the game anymore.
Right now all the debuffs are either caused by addons, perks, or a specific killer's power. There's no debuff that's there just because it can be or that's there because of anything other than what I listed.
So if ANYTHING it should be attached to killer addons or make a new killer way down the line with a perk that does something similar but not too op or have that killers power do something like this.
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Tunneling already isn't appealing. Chases can already take ages to end in a down, during which multiple gens can get popped. If the killer camps a hook then they're guaranteed to lose the rest while camping and can still lose that camp to borrowed time.
Chasing an unhooked survivor still requires you to dive into another potentially long chase which you can't even capitalize off of because the survivor will just have DS waiting for you. Wait out the timer or eat the DS and go on yet another long chase to down the survivor again. Congrats to the killer, he's only got 2 hooks and (if the others have stuck on gens properly) another 2 gens should be popped with the last one on the way.
Even if each individual survivor is relatively bad at looping then at most the killer will have 2 kills to show for his camping/tunneling strat. He'll either be depipping every game or at best getting safety pips if he got in some free points inbetween.
If killers are doing this and still getting 4k's while ranking up then that is 100% the fault of the survivors, not the killers. Tunneling and camping have already been punished to hell and back with the changes to rank evaluation, point distribution, and perks like DS and borrowed which directly punish from a gameplay stand point. Killers are barely getting safety pips if the survivors are extra bad and all 4 die off without putting up any sort of a decent fight. Think about that for a second. The killer is punished for not baby sitting the survivors so that they play a little longer.
If your only argument is that it's not fun then killers have the same to say about all sorts of ######### survivors have/do. But if/when that gets complained about then survivors argue it off as "optimal gameplay" and that "Killers just don't want us to play the game", often times even denying it outright by saying that nothing they're doing is actually wrong/broken. However anything that killers do is considered toxic, unfun, bad etiquette, ect.
Double standards are always so fun.
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@BearWolf_51 That seems absolutely right. Seeing it like this, I agree with you.
@Venoxxie Yeah, i get the problem - free gen repair speed penalties would be something incredibly strong paired with the other things can take too long if abused. On the other hand you could just reduce the numbers on these to make them less impactful.
@FootMan2893 Tunneling and Camping got both nerfed without question. I didn't really have camping in my mind, camping is really useless against good survivors. The fact that chases take too long is another problem. If there are 2-3 gens done before you have downed a survivor, you have bad cards regardless of what you do. Then tunneling/camping will probably result in only one kill, if the survivors don't go full clown fiesta. If you go for another survivor though, you'll probably get nothing - and that is my actual problem. You don't get rewarded if you go for a different survivor. (Except if you camp and get the one who is unhooking down right after unhooking.)
I feel like the killer should be rewarded for going after different survivors; in the current state he gets nothing except maybe stacks for BBQ. That's what I actually want to tell :D (Edited the title to reflect this)
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Look up "God loops are needed" by truetalent on YT. 3 people did 2 gens in 1:20 which is how long it took the killer to down someone and bring them to a hook. It's not like the killer was even looped for that long either, it was actually a relatively short chase.
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Well, this is a problem, I think that this is caused by toolboxes being incredibly strong. Still, I don't see how this has something to do with my post. Do you want to say that my idea is not needed since it doesn't affect games?
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I think the intention is very good, but I don't think we need to complicate the game further to get rid of this bad behavior.
First of all I think they should speed up the unhooking animation a lot. There is no worse feeling than wanting to get away but you are stuck in an animation. Not to mention the unhook/grab standoff.
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I think I misread your reply and thought you were saying that it's the killers fault if 2-3 gens get popped just trying to down a single survivor. My bad.
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