Nerf SWF groups
If we're going to start nerfing any killer that's performing decently just because it's ruining the survivor experience then we need to put in direct mechanical limitations to SWF because they're ruining killers. With the only killers who could compete with those Rank 1 try hard groups being nerfed it's even more necessary to gut group play.
When players are partied up they should lose the ability to equip keys of all rarities as well as Brand New Part. I also think there should be a mechanic that lowers perk levels as more players join the party. 2 players keeps it the same, 3 restricts it to level 2, and 4 to level 1. Either something like this or an ingame debuff to survivors/buff to killers. Slower gen repairs for survivors or maybe faster activating and stronger bloodlusting for killers.
Removing the ability to sabotage hooks either when a group is in the game or just remove the mechanic for players in the group itself.
A change that I think should happen anyway is the removal of body blocking killers while they're transporting bodies. Either giving the killer no collision or making it so a killer can push the survivors around while transporting. If that's too problematic to implement then at least try giving the killer an innate buff similar to mad grit when up against a SWF. Slower wiggle progression based on how many players are nearby, pausing the wiggle timer if a survivor hangs too close, ect.
You could do any number of things with the idea of buffs/debuffs that activate when up against SWF. Something needs to be done though. With the killers capable of countering high rank groups getting nerfed something needs to be done.
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Playing on high ranks, shouldn't be easy at all.
Nerfing swf, will inflict a seriously damage in the playerbase.
It's not because they want play on supposedly "easy mode", they play this way because is more fun to play together, maybe nerfing it will cause more problems than solutions.
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No. If that were the case then the vast majority of them wouldn't be running maximum try hard perk and item loadouts. They're playing to win as hard they can. High rank SWF (and even lower ranked ones to an extent) ruin the game for killers and should be gutted. Wanna play with your friends? Fine, go ahead and have a blast. But if you're going to have the advantage of group play and communication then you deserve to be handicapped for it.
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At the beginning of the game, keys, brand new part, flashlight, pallets got nerfed.
Soo the list goes on.. mechanics, hitbox, mom, OoO (joke), instaheal..
Indeed, everything is soo going well..
The mastery levels of killer have a higher cap, even more rewarding for them
Think about, why reasonable killers almost every match avoid tunelling? Why avoid noed? Insidous? Insta down? Camping? Nurse? Aura revealing addons offering combos? Why that pity?
These days even doing gens without toolbox can be considered as tryhard, or 3 deaths / 1 escaped can be considered a unfair win
Good luck killing the "high hours" playerbase.
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Keys have never been nerfed, BNP only got a nerf recently, flashlight wasn't too long ago either. Original DBD was so survivor sided that it was unplayable as killer so of course pallets needed nerfing along with windows, and even still that took ages. I've been playing since 2016 and that was still the era of vacuum pallets, insta flash lights, permanently sabotaged hooks, SWF groups every game, ect. Nothing got nerfed back then, it took ages for ANYTHING to finally get touched.
Mastery level for killers are higher but that doesn't mean killer is stronger, it just means survivor is a hell of a lot easier to master and succeed with.
Killers avoid tunneling and camping because survivors complained enough for the dev team to implement different layers of perks and mechanics to make those strategies not only un-viable but extremely punishing to the killer. People avoid NOED because builds are limited and some killers damn near require specific perks to be played, and when NOED gets used, or a lot of other perks for that matter, survivors complain to hell and back about it ingame, on the forums, ect.
Literally any time something that's actually strong for the killers is used survivors will call it broken because it's not balanced unless they have the advantage. If killers were to do the opposite though survivors would just rain down the floods of bullshit excuses ranging from just calling the killer bad all the way to making downright stupid arguments about how none of their perks are good and/or have counterplay. FYI they don't have counterplay.
No one calls doing gens try hard, but we do call it gen rushing.
Generator repair speed is absolutely busted and survivors who argue that point are either delusional or just don't want to let go of what is arguably the biggest and most unbalanced advantage they have in the game right now. 4 Uninterrupted people can easily pop 2-3 gens in a minute an a half. Even if one person is caught out immediately and forced to run from the killer that chase time on a non Nurse or Spirit can and probably WILL last long enough for 2 gens to be popped, and that's without brand new part.
And yes, 3D and 1K CAN be considered unfair if that last survivor escaped through some bullshit means, though rarely does that happen.
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This discussion will not go anywhere, won't make any difference all because the lack of proper perspective.
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And what is your "proper" perspective? That if it's not fun for survivors then it shouldn't exist?
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No, that survivors have been completely butchered and the reason why people play with their friends nowadays is to have fun considering solo is nearly impossible to have fun with now. Nobody should be complaining about survivors at this point considering how much the game holds peoples hands nowadays.
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No, survivors weren't butchered. No, people do not only play SWF for fun with friends. Infact I'd wager that there's more people doing group play for the sake of winning than there are people who are playing with friends for "fun".
You are correct that the game holds peoples hands, but it's the survivors that are getting hand held through the game. That's why group play should be gutted.
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Mechanical handicaps on SWF teams simply will not work. Nerfing SWF is not a solution. We've been over this before. People will just join the queue as solos and then lobbyhop until they get a game with their friends to avoid being handicapped. Then not only are we back to square one as far as improving killer experience against coordinated survivors goes, but the survivors' experience is also worsened. It's just making the game less enjoyable for people for no reason at all.
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You can not nerf SWF, all you can do is make changes to balance fyi, changing survivors.
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Add in a scaling penalty timer for queue hopping like 90% of competitive games already have. Problem solved. Though I fully understand what you're saying and I do agree with some of your points, I'm also thinking that it's still a good idea to gut SWF in some way. I don't actually believe solo survivors would be massively affected by it so that only leaves the people trying to play in groups to get the short end of the stick.
The big issue with not doing anything to SWF is that I don't see any other option as being viable due to Behavior's history. As it is they're listening to the lower end of the playerbase ladder by nerfing 2 of the strongest killers, thus destroying the balance that was being held up until now at the very top of the competitive gameplay. Their decision making is definitely not something i trust.
Red rank SWF groups are going to absolutely ruin high tier play if/when there's no strong killer to counter them. However like it is now if those strong killers exist then the bottom end of the ladder bitches and moans about it so a balance is never struck.
Some have suggested that solo survivors should get buffed up so that there's more room to buff killers and I'm pretty sure that they'll easily screw that up. I have full confidence that they could do a good job at buffing survivor gameplay but I highly doubt they'd achieve the same with killers.
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I think buffing solo is the way to go, and I haven't completely lost faith in the devs' abilities there because I think they did a good job recently with Freddy.
Adding penalties to lobby dodging unfortunately gives rise to a whole bunch of other problems, which cannot be solved so long as matchmaking and the dedicated servers remain in the dodgy state that they are currently in.
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