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Make Self-Care a limited use perk
Having self-care as an infinite use perk is very powerful on its own since it doesn't make you rely on your teammates or to scavenge for a med kit at any time. I feel like self-care should be one of the perks that should be used only if you really need to, similar to how Unbreakable only allows you do get up once, but still keeps the fast recovery rate. It shouldn't allow the survivor to be completely dependent without the aid of other survivors, and should only count on the perk when it's most needed, such as when there are no survivors able to assist you or when you're that last survivor in the trial.
I feel like the perk should either be token based or charge based. Having it token based can make it rely on helping teammates by completing altruistic actions, similar to WGLF and having a max stack of tokens. In turn, the perk could have moderately faster healing speed that current self-care, but fully healing yourself or having another survivor finish healing you when you're over 75% healed can consume a token, and you'll have to complete more altruistic actions to gain another token, and the survivor will start the match with either 1 or 0 tokens depending on the tier. Having it charge based would only let you heal for a certain amount of time and could be recharged by either healing teammates or collecting a med kit of rare quality or higher, making the perk not infinite but not very limited.
Let me know what other changes to the perk could be done to help actually balance it out. The goal is to not make the perk as crutch as it currently is and to not make it a staple perk for survivors for easier games. The game should be team-based and be centered around benefiting you for helping others and increasing the odds of survival instead of allowing survivors to lone-wolf the game by simply bringing in this perk. I feel like the game should be an actual challenge for the survivor instead of making it a huge challenge to the killer.
Comments
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Many of us killers have begged for this yet we're always down voted, told to git gud or the devs simply saying "we're afraid to" they dont want to upset their little babies.
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Making it based off of altruism seems kind of awkward.
There are already so many perks that heavily depend on altruism, so adding another seems suffocating.
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How bout you can only heal to 50% or 75% and the rest requires another player?
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the clown has a useful perk to slow down healing, just use it. self-care is the only chance to survive so a nerf is obviously stupid. why do killers beg for a nerf? just hit the swf twice and hook them. what's the problem?
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@Axlegolas said:
the clown has a useful perk to slow down healing, just use it. self-care is the only chance to survive so a nerf is obviously stupid. why do killers beg for a nerf? just hit the swf twice and hook them. what's the problem?That perk is probably not going to be used much. It's not worth 1/4 of your perk slots just to soft counter self care. It's hardly a soft counter because you just have to walk a bit further and start healing. It doesn't sync well with nurses calling because it reminds you to not even start healing until you're out of the terror radius.
Nurses Calling with still be the meta perk to counter self care, and it's not that good at it because of the reasons above of just walking out.
The biggest thing wrong with self care is that it makes you too independent in a team game. I like Kaalaxi's idea of making it 50 to 75 percent of a heal, but that kind of screws your team of getting emblem points.
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As the devs said: this is NOT a team game!! each swf is independent. the community makes it a team game. so talking and complaining about self-care all the time is just annyoing. if you want to counter it, you have to take the perks for it. but the killers don't want to break up their usual perk build, so swf and their perks need to be nerfed.....just sensless from a gameplay point of view. this is how this game works. a nerf is unnecessary
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@Axlegolas said:
As the devs said: this is NOT a team game!! each swf is independent. the community makes it a team game. so talking and complaining about self-care all the time is just annyoing. if you want to counter it, you have to take the perks for it. but the killers don't want to break up their usual perk build, so swf and their perks need to be nerfed.....just sensless from a gameplay point of view. this is how this game works. a nerf is unnecessarydespite what the devs say, it is a team game. You rely on your team to unhook you, you get points for helping other survivors, and it has a SWF option. It's literally advertised as a co-op game under tags on steam.
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I discussed this in the Dead By Daylight Discord server, actually.
Having Self-Care as an infinite-use perk makes Medkits completely obsolete, due to the fact that medkits are limited-use consumable items, but self-care is an infinite-use perk that any survivor can have.
I agree that Self-Care should be limited - to one self-heal per Trial.
Basically with it being infinite-use, it goes as follows; You get hit by the Killer, you sprint off into oblivion, heal, and loop them again endlessly. Get hit, vanish, heal again, repeat.
As it is right now, Self-Care is unbalanced. One full self-heal would be enough, but it should be noted that just that on its own could be circumvented by 99%ing the healing process and having another Survivor just tap.
Rather, if Self-Care was used at all during the singular Injured State, it'd be consumed entirely. Or, it should be changed so that it could heal the equivalent of 100% of the healing process once per trial, so it could be 50%ed twice for example. That would make it impossible to fully heal without another's help, just the same as when the Survivor is in Dying State without the perk that gets them up on their own.As it stands, it's broken.
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The problem is that killers are basically asking for freebies again when it comes to certain survivor perks because they don't want to get rid of that perfect perk setup. That's like asking survivors to use only certain perks just in case the killer has something you don't like.
If you hit someone then follow them and listen for the groans of pain, use a different perk or different killer than someone op. There's certain maps that favor that perk while others you're kinda out in the open naked and afraid the killer will see/hear you.
I don't like BBQ & Chili along with Exposed etc so they should just nerf it, along with the super extended range the Doctor gets with certain perks. Does that mean they should be nerfed or does it mean I should play different survivors/perks to counter that?
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NO JUST NO we already have first aid kits for that, also survivors take days to heal themselfs and killers usually can hear them healing and can kill them.. Also a lot of perks are catered around self care for killers nurses calling, the new clown perk etc... I totally agree with flashlight, and DS being changed or removed but leave self care alone and just get good.
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I remember a dev said they'd rework it so if you stop the self-care action before fully healing yourself to healthy state, the progress of your Self-Care would be reset. That was almost 2 months ago. If anything were a nerf to Killer it'd be accepted in 2 days
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@esn23 said:
NO JUST NO we already have first aid kits for that, also survivors take days to heal themselfs and killers usually can hear them healing and can kill them.. Also a lot of perks are catered around self care for killers nurses calling, the new clown perk etc... I totally agree with flashlight, and DS being changed or removed but leave self care alone and just get good.It doesn't matter if it's slowed down by an incredible amount or if med kits are limited, self-care should not be an infinite use perk. Having slower healing speed doesn't matter once the killer ends up loosing you to chase somebody else or kick a gen, being able to heal whenever for an indefinite amount of times is just too powerful.
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@AsianMammoth said:
I remember a dev said they'd rework it so if you stop the self-care action before fully healing yourself to healthy state, the progress of your Self-Care would be reset. That was almost 2 months ago. If anything were a nerf to Killer it'd be accepted in 2 daysThis sounds fair if a nerf is really necessery. limited use is just dumb and killer mimimi. it's like having limited use of BBQ or Nurse calling....absolutely sensless
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Self Care in its current state is fine I think.
However, I would mind it being a 4 use perk or something. I mean wouldn't 4 self care heals be enough? I think beyond that is extreme. Most people don't even self care heal more than 3 times in a match anyways right?
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Self Care:
Unlocks the ability to heal yourself without a med-kit
with 15/20/25% increased healing speed. Self care has 12 charges and will increase efficiency of healing items by 15%.
What do you all think about this rework and give constructive feedback not "Ugh this is so stupid!".-3 -
Nah, I don't think anything like that is necessary. As it is now is just fine. With the Coulrophobia perk... that helps too.
I just think either leaving it alone, or making it a 3 or 4 use perk would be fine.
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why should i forget how to heal myself if i have the knowledge of healing, it doesn't make sense anyway. self care reset when stop healing is logic. also killers have good perks and addons to spot and debuff. so a limitation is (sry for that) just a very stupid suggestion of crying killers. how about limiting BBQ in usage? or ruin? or how about limiting noed? doesn't make sense either....
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During the waiting menus I noticed the veins on the back of his head pulsating.0
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@Axlegolas said:
the clown has a useful perk to slow down healing, just use it. self-care is the only chance to survive so a nerf is obviously stupid. why do killers beg for a nerf? just hit the swf twice and hook them. what's the problem?"The only chance to survive"
Are you serious? You mean aside from the fact that you have 3 other teammates to heal you? Or that you can find a med kit in 2-3 chest across the map?
"the clown has a useful perk to slow down healing, just use it"
Lol. yeah and Survive's have empathy, bond. botany knowledge, we'll make it etc to help YOU get healed up as well, so why don't YOU use it.
I don't use self care, and made it to rank 3 last season late (easily). Self Care isn't needed and encourages teamwork when you don't have it. This post is 1/10
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@Axlegolas said:
why should i forget how to heal myself if i have the knowledge of healing, it doesn't make sense anyway. self care reset when stop healing is logic. also killers have good perks and addons to spot and debuff. so a limitation is (sry for that) just a very stupid suggestion of crying killers. how about limiting BBQ in usage? or ruin? or how about limiting noed? doesn't make sense either....Did you seriously just compare Ruin and NOED to self care? You talk about "limiting" perks when Ruin and Noed can be destroyed. Come on man you're smarter than that! NOED takes 70 seconds worth of cleansing to counter, if you even go against it, that's your fault.
BBQ I will agree on, it is very OP (as a Killer main) but Self Care is just not needed when you have 3 teammates.
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error in posting. even the forum is bugged
see belowPost edited by Axlegolas on0 -
speechless. your posts are -2/10. should i laugh or should i cry?
BBQ is not OP, since you are not a nurse or billy. self care is needed badly. not every swf plays this game in a discord/TS group. you are not meant to survive as group but as individual. several times said by the devs. did you ever play with random swf? what about beeing last swf on the map? healing forbidden. there are not always medkits in the chests. so no medkit = instant death? oh, no there is a hatch at least.....hold on ...killers can now close it? hm, bad day...but i agree you can play a game without sc and you can survive. that's why a discussion about limitation or nerfing sc is totally senseless and only high rank killer mimimi. should be postet in the "wishlist" section.
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Killers, please use perks against healing if it's that bothersome.
Nurses calling, thanatophobia, clown perk, distressing or whatever else make a good 4th perk.
Self care takes so long to complete anyway, just leave it.-1 -
@GolgiNea said:
Killers, please use perks against healing if it's that bothersome.
Nurses calling, thanatophobia, clown perk, distressing or whatever else make a good 4th perk.
Self care takes so long to complete anyway, just leave it.We already have to use Ruin to counter genrush (and can be destroyed, making us have only 3 perks for the rest of the game, if we're not using other Hex perks)
and Enduring to ""counter"" pallets and DS
and BBQ & Chili so we don't have to camp cause if we do you get too salty (but you also hate if we don't camp cause then we're tunneling or something)
and now we can't even have a free 4th perk slot?!@Axlegolas said:
BBQ is not OP, since you are not a nurse or billy. self care is needed badly.says the boosted survivor
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@AsianMammoth said:
@GolgiNea said:
Killers, please use perks against healing if it's that bothersome.
Nurses calling, thanatophobia, clown perk, distressing or whatever else make a good 4th perk.
Self care takes so long to complete anyway, just leave it.We already have to use Ruin to counter genrush (and can be destroyed, making us have only 3 perks for the rest of the game, if we're not using other Hex perks)
and Enduring to ""counter"" pallets and DS
and BBQ & Chili so we don't have to camp cause if we do you get too salty (but you also hate if we don't camp cause then we're tunneling or something)
and now we can't even have a free 4th perk slot?!@Axlegolas said:
BBQ is not OP, since you are not a nurse or billy. self care is needed badly.says the boosted survivor
Most BBQ killers camp anyways once they get someone hooked since odds are they're going up against total randoms anyways and those usually don't know any better. Self care is fine but may'be make it like a gen skills check, fail the skill check or cancel before done it resets to zero.
But asking for a enrf because people use it mostly lower levels who don't have ll the high end ultra very rare perks yet (myself included). There's also the fact that not every group is a svf group and a lot of times especially if the killer is camping you can't get healed.
Go up against a has that has her totems marked and you try and cleanse them you're going to get rekt pretty quickly. The nurse, blinks to it, hillbilly charges that way. The dream you never see coming let alone which way he's heading at you.
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How about the perk stays the same, but everytime a self-heal is completed its healing speed is halved?
SC starts at 50% healing speed, after 1 heal it goes down to 25% after that it goes down to 12.5% and so on.
Survivors running SC will then experience diminishing returns if they keep relying on it.
Oh and to prevent Survivors healing up to 99% and then have a teammate tap them to avoid the speed reduction, the speed reduction penalty will kick in if you've used SC for roughly 50% of the progression bar.-2 -
Perk modification:
Tier 1: one token for one heal at 50% normal speed. Medkit is 10% more effective.
Tier 2: two tokens for two heals at 50% normal speed. Medkit is 15% more effective.
Tier 3: three tokens for three heals at 50% normal speed. Medkit is 20% more effective.
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@MrChills said:
Many of us killers have begged for this yet we're always down voted, told to git gud or the devs simply saying "we're afraid to" they dont want to upset their little babies.There's already the "limited use" Self Care though. It's Pharmacy. But I like the suggestion to make Self Care slower and slower everytime you heal to full.
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Over half of you are just babbling st each other saying extreme ideas, getting challenged, saying something rude, replied at with something rude, and repeating. This just shows how unreliable it is to trust what you said if you couldn’t take othet opinions on it.
I’m not gonna say who I’m talking about, or a suggestion, because I’m afraid I’ll get stabbed in a dark alley if I do.
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@Jack11803 said:
Over half of you are just babbling st each other saying extreme ideas, getting challenged, saying something rude, replied at with something rude, and repeating. This just shows how unreliable it is to trust what you said if you couldn’t take othet opinions on it.I’m not gonna say who I’m talking about, or a suggestion, because I’m afraid I’ll get stabbed in a dark alley if I do.
People usually can't take criticism well when they think their right.
Btw, @BarpleBapkins just make Self-Care causes Exhaustion or apply some other status de-buff effect. Makes sense since you tending to your own wounds you should suffer a penalty for it.
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@Mc_Harty said:
@Jack11803 said:
Over half of you are just babbling st each other saying extreme ideas, getting challenged, saying something rude, replied at with something rude, and repeating. This just shows how unreliable it is to trust what you said if you couldn’t take othet opinions on it.I’m not gonna say who I’m talking about, or a suggestion, because I’m afraid I’ll get stabbed in a dark alley if I do.
People usually can't take criticism well when they think their right.
Btw, @BarpleBapkins just make Self-Care causes Exhaustion or apply some other status de-buff effect. Makes sense since you tending to your own wounds you should suffer a penalty for it.
You calmly just came up with an idea on the spot, without thinking of balance, and it’s the most balanced and best I’ve heard yet...
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@Jack11803 said:
You calmly just came up with an idea on the spot, without thinking of balance, and it’s the most balanced and best I’ve heard yet...Tbh its not even my idea. Someone else came up with it. I thought it sounded good. I'll try to find the original poster that came up with it
I don't care if its not perfect I'm just throwing ideas around for the other posters or the devs.
EDIT : Here it is - http://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/9200#Comment_9200
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I hear your complaints, I seriously do.
But SELF CARE IS NOT AS OP AS EVERYONE THINKS.
I went 3 months without using it as a test to see, and it's true. It's easily passable to get away without using it. Just a few unlucky moments where it could've came in handy and it didn't. Your complaints/critique (I believe) has to do with SWF. With SWF most perks become OP because of the skill cap is very, very high when putting 4 skillful survivors with 4 Tier III perks.
But nerfing Self Care is a huge detriment to solo players, and I don't think anyone takes in to account these Solo Players anymore. Like, I rely a bit on SC because my teammates are usually dumb and don't have a clue what they're doing. Even in high ranks lol. It'd be nice to be thought of as a solo queuer...
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@Jack11803 said:
@BradyYeah....they said that playing with it is not necessary, and doesn’t effect you, so being without it because of a nerf isn’t bad.....but that just proves it doesn’t need a nerf if it’s effect on survival is minimal.
Again, the problems are more rooted with a high skill cap than the perk itself. The perk just adds to the meta (It's the #1 most used perk) that allows the skill cap to become higher.
But with that being said, SWF greatly exploits the skill cap. When used in SWF, Self-Care is powerful. When playing as 4 solo players, Self-Care is merely used as a way to not rely on other teammates. To play as a lone wolf. But it's not even necessary. I'd say my rate of escaping without self care during that time was roughly around 60-78%. Which is more than half, to about three quarters of the times I'd escape. It's just nice to know that we survivors who play by ourselves can heal ourselves with a little bit longer timeframe without having to run around finding someone else and possibly get caught in the crossfire.
Like you said, proving that it isn't necessary shows that a nerf isn't needed in the first place. There's killers out there able to destroy teams (4 kills) with everyone having the meta. I escaped your chase, my reward is that I'm able to go off and heal myself to healthy again so I'm not the same easy target. I rather not be punished for successfully escaping you.
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The issue is that svf is making killers ask for nerfs that then turn around and hurt the solo players the most instead of actually fixing the problem. Most of my games are either complete noobs as in they all go try and rescue the camped hooked survivor resulting in the killer having 3 downed in less than 4 mins.
I use self care to keep myself going if I get caught in the crossfire so I can try and do gens and thereby punish said camper. There's other games where on the really big maps you're pretty much all alone and the chances of finding a team mate or chest let alone one that hasn't been looted already are slim and one.
While I get games with good players, I also get games with really good killers who quite often get that 4 sacrifice match. So stop trying to nerf survivor perks and instead nerf svf perks so that solo's and randoms don't get screwed.
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@Mc_Harty said:
@Jack11803 said:
Over half of you are just babbling st each other saying extreme ideas, getting challenged, saying something rude, replied at with something rude, and repeating. This just shows how unreliable it is to trust what you said if you couldn’t take othet opinions on it.I’m not gonna say who I’m talking about, or a suggestion, because I’m afraid I’ll get stabbed in a dark alley if I do.
People usually can't take criticism well when they think their right.
Btw, @BarpleBapkins just make Self-Care causes Exhaustion or apply some other status de-buff effect. Makes sense since you tending to your own wounds you should suffer a penalty for it.
Probably would be a better solution than reworking the perk entirely, but I still feel the need for it to be limited. I'd settle for this to see how it would work out, though.
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@BarpleBapkins said:
@Mc_Harty said:
@Jack11803 said:
Over half of you are just babbling st each other saying extreme ideas, getting challenged, saying something rude, replied at with something rude, and repeating. This just shows how unreliable it is to trust what you said if you couldn’t take othet opinions on it.I’m not gonna say who I’m talking about, or a suggestion, because I’m afraid I’ll get stabbed in a dark alley if I do.
People usually can't take criticism well when they think their right.
Btw, @BarpleBapkins just make Self-Care causes Exhaustion or apply some other status de-buff effect. Makes sense since you tending to your own wounds you should suffer a penalty for it.
Probably would be a better solution than reworking the perk entirely, but I still feel the need for it to be limited. I'd settle for this to see how it would work out, though.
Exhaustion is a bit much, especially if you're facing a good/great killer and their hounding you. as someone else had suggested make it so that if you're using self heal that if you fail the skill check/stop healing then the progress gets reset to zero.
This would be a way more balanced solution than to simply gut it with heavy nerfs just because all the high ranked players/SVF groups use it. It'd be way more balanced this way while still being a useful perk.
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I always liked the idea of selfcare giving you a sort of no mither effect. Gets rid of blood drops and sounds of pain, you still limp and you still go down in one hit. Then buff the self heal speed to the normal heal speed and tremendously buff the self heal efficiency atleast to the point that a brown medkit can give you two full self heals. This would mean if you want to fully selfheal you need to bring a medkit, if you dont have a medkit you just have to live with a subpar heal that mitigates the seriousness of your injury until you find a medkit or a teammate. Atleast this way the perk still has a functional purpose and gives people a real reason to bring medkits even if its a crummy brown one.
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@SadonicShadow said:
I always liked the idea of selfcare giving you a sort of no mither effect. Gets rid of blood drops and sounds of pain, you still limp and you still go down in one hit. Then buff the self heal speed to the normal heal speed and tremendously buff the self heal efficiency atleast to the point that a brown medkit can give you two full self heals. This would mean if you want to fully selfheal you need to bring a medkit, if you dont have a medkit you just have to live with a subpar heal that mitigates the seriousness of your injury until you find a medkit or a teammate. Atleast this way the perk still has a functional purpose and gives people a real reason to bring medkits even if its a crummy brown one.That's an interesting idea actually and perhaps make it so that if you don't have the medikit/find one you'd only get the heal more fully done if you run the botany perk. Also if you fail the self heal skill check make your cries of pain louder ie aura fail bigger for that one time fail.
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@powerbats said:
@SadonicShadow said:
I always liked the idea of selfcare giving you a sort of no mither effect. Gets rid of blood drops and sounds of pain, you still limp and you still go down in one hit. Then buff the self heal speed to the normal heal speed and tremendously buff the self heal efficiency atleast to the point that a brown medkit can give you two full self heals. This would mean if you want to fully selfheal you need to bring a medkit, if you dont have a medkit you just have to live with a subpar heal that mitigates the seriousness of your injury until you find a medkit or a teammate. Atleast this way the perk still has a functional purpose and gives people a real reason to bring medkits even if its a crummy brown one.That's an interesting idea actually and perhaps make it so that if you don't have the medikit/find one you'd only get the heal more fully done if you run the botany perk. Also if you fail the self heal skill check make your cries of pain louder ie aura fail bigger for that one time fail.
I actually like the idea for that combo. If you dont want to bring a medkit just bring selfcare + botany and that would allow you to fully selfheal. 2 perk slots for full, unlimited selfheals. Would be a balanced tradeoff.
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Here is the best soulution
A full heal can be made with 8 charges
Self care starts with 6/8/10 charges and has a cap of 12/14/16. For every great skillcheck you make you get 1/2/2 charges back.
In this way, it makes perks like thjs is not happening and stake out much more viable. It also ensures that selfcare in technically infinate, but not in an abusable way.
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@BarpleBapkins said:
Having self-care as an infinite use perk is very powerful on its own since it doesn't make you rely on your teammates or to scavenge for a med kit at any time. I feel like self-care should be one of the perks that should be used only if you really need to, similar to how Unbreakable only allows you do get up once, but still keeps the fast recovery rate. It shouldn't allow the survivor to be completely dependent without the aid of other survivors, and should only count on the perk when it's most needed, such as when there are no survivors able to assist you or when you're that last survivor in the trial.I feel like the perk should either be token based or charge based. Having it token based can make it rely on helping teammates by completing altruistic actions, similar to WGLF and having a max stack of tokens. In turn, the perk could have moderately faster healing speed that current self-care, but fully healing yourself or having another survivor finish healing you when you're over 75% healed can consume a token, and you'll have to complete more altruistic actions to gain another token, and the survivor will start the match with either 1 or 0 tokens depending on the tier. Having it charge based would only let you heal for a certain amount of time and could be recharged by either healing teammates or collecting a med kit of rare quality or higher, making the perk not infinite but not very limited.
Let me know what other changes to the perk could be done to help actually balance it out. The goal is to not make the perk as crutch as it currently is and to not make it a staple perk for survivors for easier games. The game should be team-based and be centered around benefiting you for helping others and increasing the odds of survival instead of allowing survivors to lone-wolf the game by simply bringing in this perk. I feel like the game should be an actual challenge for the survivor instead of making it a huge challenge to the killer.
I've already suggested this change numerous times in the past. I'm not even sure if the devs listen.
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