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Slow down Freddy build
I'm a P2 Freddy main and a killer main. I've noticed there's a lot of Freddy's out there using jump rope along with swing chains along with Thano, Dying light, Ruin. Am I wrong to consider this build to take no skill to use whatsoever? I can understand if you want to use ruin and one or the other add ons. My question is, do you think that they should make his add ons that slow down gen, healing and sabotaging unstackable?
By the way, I challenged myself to not use ruin on Freddy and at most I'll either use jump rope or swing chains, not combined. Along with nancy's masterpiece. A friend thinks if it's in a game it should be used because it's the most optimal. So I showed him you can win as a killer without using perks or add ons with him and still get a 4k. I ended up getting merciless so he thinks maybe Freddy should be nerfed then due to that. I heavily believe that no, he doesn't need a nerf, but perhaps his add-ons could be changed so the ones that slow down can't be stacked. I understand that higher ranks gen rushing is a thing, but if you're a good enough killer with map awareness and pressure, you shouldn't have to be concerned about it.
Answers
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I wouldn't say they take no skill... I'd say that it's considered one of the most viable builds for high level play... despite it being annoying.
People will naturally use the best builds and Killers/Characters in any game... it's no exception that people are using Freddy with that build, he's considered the 2nd most viable Killer at Red Ranks at the moment.
Personally, I don't think both his add-ons should be stackable, it's acceptable if they're only once per slot use and do not stack with the other variation. I think anyone can agree that Dying Light +Thanatophobia + Swing Rope and Chains is... very annoying. Killer or Survivor can honestly see why that's an issue.
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@FireHazard I suppose what I'm saying is that the add-ons shouldn't be stackable. I tried explaining to him how Legion once was in how that was very annoying. I suppose the bad comparison would be to pre-balanced/nerf to spirit. I find games to be a bit more enjoyable when both sides have a chance instead of just one. If they use discordance, that discourages people from doing a gen at once to get it about the average time with one. And if the killer is able to play better without those add-ons then they would make the game nearly impossible for a survivor to even win. Granted, as much as Ruin is a great perk, once it's destroyed that's just one perk less that you have to use, hence why I don't use it on Freddy. Killers that are more M1 based like Plague, I'm doing my best to play her to try and win without using ruin.
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But it does take skill? You need to hit people, keep a consistent pressure and have them consistently in the dream world for this build to work. This build only works if you take an active approach to the match.
Personally i feel like Pill Bottle (w/Swing Chains) is the more dangerous combo since that addon makes him invisible 24+ meters, and flicker 12-24 meters.
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Waking up is only for his two addons though. He also has Thanataphobia, Dying Light, Ruin, and Pop, which don't require you to be asleep. Btw, I've tried waking up with Red Paint Brush+Swing Chains every time it was available just to see if it was a viable counter. It was nowhere near a viable counter btw.
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I wouldn't say the build takes no skill. The fact that it's not effective unless you get hooks and injure survivors kind of contradicts that point of view. By contrast, it would be easily to argue that Ruin takes no skill as killer since it is completely passive and requires nothing from the killer to work at max efficiency.
This build can be beaten but it requires smart play. I've done it. I've had it done to me in very few instances. It can be done. The problem is that once survivors see Freddy has this build they go full potato and just stop working on gens. The trick really is to split up and work on gens, forcing him to pick a gen to teleport to and take a chase while the other continue working on the gens. And you need to do this right away, before he gets stacks on Dying Light. Just ignore Ruin and plow through gens, because once he starts getting hooks you will be neck deep in the doo doo butter.
And as a Freddy player I feel like it's not optimal to do both Swing Chains and Ropes, especially if you have Thana and Dying Light. It's redundant. One or the other is totally fine. Your second add-on should be pictures (decrease gen teleport cooldown) or dresses (increase penalty on failed skill checks). That's more effective at the end of the day. The first is just a raw boost to your power while the second punishes survivors for using skill checks to wake up and forces them to use clocks or snap-clap which is more of a time sink than an extra like 2 seconds on gens from ropes/chains.
I personally have moved away from using Ruin all the time, first because it's inconsistent since survivors can spawn on top of it and it goes down in 30 seconds, and second because on red ranks on Xbox at least, survivors can do great skill checks. I can literally hit 9 of 10 great skill checks in a single gen. Ruin does not even phase a survivor like me, I can still rush gens anyway. Most of my builds are Sloppy, Thana, Dying Light, or at least 2 of these 3. It's just greatly GREATLY superior to Ruin. You could have 3 Ruins and this would still be better. And at the cost of sounding like a hipster, I was using Sloppy/Thana combo before they changed Thana way back when. People were all "oh Thana is a bad perk herpa derpa dooo" yea... no. It's a very strong perk just requires you to keep them injured, which is why it becomes so much stronger when combined with Sloppy and Dying Light. It just took TrueTalent showing off the anti-heal Ghostface build for people to acknowledge how good it is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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@thesuicidefox Yes, if you can hit the great skill checks. I just power through ruin when I play survivor cause most of the time killers kind of camp it...so I'm not going to give them a free hit. As for perks, I use BBQ, STBFL, brutal strength and pop on Freddy.
I think the biggest issue I have with it is how little you have to do in order to get it to work. Hit 4 survivors, add thano. Hook 1-2 of them, you get dying light to proc. And seeing as the survivors at lower ranks basically cannot hit skill checks against ruin so the regression becomes even worse. And even if you hit a great with ruin, you get no extra bonus so it's basically a sit there and try and finish a gen. Even healing takes so much longer
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Toolboxes counter this build pretty hard. Again the trick is to do as much as possible before he gets hooks. If you can get 2 gens done early then you have a chance to escape. If he gets 4 hooks before you finish 3 gens you are probably all going to die.
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I perfer a more balanced build than this. While this build gives you plenty of time to get kills, you couldve had abit of tracking or chase perks to make better use of the time you DO have. Do I really need to stretch the game to half an hour if I can wind things up in 10 with a well rounded build, lol?
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@LordGlint I've definitely had games playing as survivor where the killer would want to extend the game as long as possible. It's really not fun at all. 10 minute games are the best and if you somehow extend the game beyond that without doing all the add-ons and perks to slow it down, must either be putting a lot of pressure or toying with them. The games I like most last maybe 5-10 minutes long. I just don't think that any of his add ons that slow the progression of gens, healing, sabotaging should stack.
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in all fairness, the numbers on those addons dont actually do much. The swingchains at their most potent (all 4 survivors asleep) is only a 12% slow, which adds less than 10 seconds to a gen if you choose to not wake up. For healing time, your looking at less than 2 seconds of extra healing.
His addons are at a spot where quite afew of em pretty much do the same thing, or are borderline useless (looking at you Z block). His rope addons all slow action speeds, while his dress addons further regression from failed skillchecks...aka slow the game down. Unless the Freddy chooses to use a useless addon or swap to pallets, you cant really blame him for abit of overlay THERE. I know he also has his drawing addons for faster teleport cooldown, but from my own experience...I dont find myself waiting for his cooldown much for those to be useful. Its the perks that he has more choice though, so the fact that people are choosing 4 slowdown perks is the part that I dont get.
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It's actually I believe 25% if I recall. The two I really run on him is either nancy's masterpiece and jump rope. Sometimes pill bottle. However I feel like Freddy is the strongest with the power up to port to gens and kick them..even to mind game them. My concern is the day that Dying light, thano become nerfed due to the strength of them together. Unless however they make it to where they don't stack together. I really honestly don't think thano needs a nerf due to it being easily countered by healing or someone dies on hook.
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I really don't get threads like this. You complain that the game is too fast, and then you melt down when a build like this slows it down? Which is it?
Also, figuring out how to deal with the other side's tactics is the game.
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Its not, its 12%. Its 3% per sleeping survivor, which makes 12% if all 4 are asleep.
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What makes chains/rope add-ons so effective is their stacking with perks like Thana and Dying Light, plus Pop. All that may only add 8-10 seconds at most to base gen repair, but if you come along and Pop the gen that's kind of a big deal now. The little bits of time add up. And in those cases, it punishes survivors for being asleep so now they have to waste time waking up, which is why I say dresses are best to combo with ropes since it also punishes using skill checks to wake up. Snap-clap and clocks are a huge time sink because of how out of the way a survivor needs to go for it. There is also dream pallets, but that's like a preference thing. Personally I find them to be gimmicky. It can be really effective if survivors fall for it, but if they don't it's a huge waste of an add-on slot. And depending on the map, you may not even be able to use it well enough. Estate and Swamp maps are notorious pallet deserts in the middle areas. Game and Lery's pretty much only have room for the real pallets so you need to get them to drop pallets to even use it. And you have no way to shut down window loops or BL loops. Snares can do all that, even if it's less effective it's more consistent and versatile.
Also yea, RIP Z Block. Kinda glad that add-on is bad though, I only had a few left before the rework hit. By contrast I had like 50 Swing Chains and 60-80 ropes each.
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I think Swing Chains is actually 15%, because you get 3% at all times then an additional 3% for each sleeping survivor. I remember thinking it was basically Thana but for sleeping. Ropes do a flat amount to the sleeping survivor only, I think green rope is 9%.
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its not, its 12%. Theres no 3% base, its 3% per sleeping survivor. You're correct about jumprope though, with outdoor rope being 6%.
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From my experience, not many ppl purposefully fail skillchecks. If they're not gonna failed them when having 2 different addons slowing them down, theyre not gonna fail them when its only 1 addon doing it, and a dress. I do like the aura part of dresses for the rare occasion, and think maybe if they gave Z block snare aura reading similar to how paint thinner gave pallet aura reading...
I'm in the mindset that snares are the stronger of the tools, so picking the pallet addon would be akin to picking picking speed limiter on Bubba, lol. You're using a perk slot to get weaker.
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If a game goes by too quickly it's incredibly boring. Most casual survivors or ones who don't know how to loop for longer periods, I generally will kill and hook everyone within 3-5 minutes. Again, boring. If the game is more back and forth, it's more fun for me.
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So if you run both Swing chains and jump rope, it's 24% increase in speed. A full stack of Dying light, Thano with both those add-ons would make doing one generator about 150 (along with everyone asleep) So at most people are probably taking 110 seconds+ to do a single generator by themselves. An issue I've noticed with some survivors is with just a little bit of repairs to go, they'll panic if the killer comes by, miss the skill check, regress it by 5% now the other guy who was attempting to finish it can't then may or may not go down due to other person's mistake. If anything I feel like the build punishes too much
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There is indeed a base effect. When everyone is awake you still get a red bar when doing these actions.
Here is the line in the add-on description:
"Applies a slight penalty to Sabotage, Healing and Repair Action Speeds to awake and asleep Survivors." (https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Swing_Chains)
Although now thinking about it, it is 12% max, meaning that it doesn't matter if the 4th survivor is asleep or not. You only get stacks for the first 3. But there is 100% a base effect because the bars are red when everyone is awake.
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You sure you arnt seeing that red bar from another effect, like multiple people being on the gen? You SHOULD see the icon at the bottom of any perk or addon thats slowing you down.
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I'm sure. The bar is red. There is a base effect and then you get +3% for the first 3 sleeping survivors. It says there is a slight debuff all the time. So if the max is 12%, it would go slight-moderate-considerable-tremendous.
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you on PC? I wanna test this real quick
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No Xbox. But we got a lot of Freddy players so I'll keep an eye out.
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