About changing Legion

Myers_Is_My_Dad

I was thinking about what do about Legion since they are going through some changes now resulting in mixed reactions.

I thought, well what would be an easy way to solve current problems with Legion quickly and make them more fun to play as and against?

It seems to me one fix would be to make a trade off that removes the annoying part of Legions ability and amplifies the fun part. I would suggest removing Deep Wounds, so Legions power only injures and does nothing when hitting an injured survivor. Then make Iridescent Button part of the base power. Iridescent Button gives Legion a certain amount of full-map pressure, which is something a killer needs, and the ability to break pallets somewhat faster than normal, something a killer also somewhat needs if they don't have another way to play around pallets well. Iridescent Button is also very interesting to play against as survivor and feels very different from playing against any other killer.

One caveat is that Iridescent Button does give perfect information to Legion by making detection range full-map. The detection radius should be changed to account for this, just made into a 32 meter radius not tied to terror radius so that the detection add-ons can remain unchanged.

The biggest problem I see with removing Deep Wounds + making Iridescent Button base would be that a lot of add-ons would have to be changed. The deep wounds ones obviously, and a new Iridescent add-on would have to be created. Maybe the new Iridescent could be a built in Bamboozle, or reveal auras of nearby survivors when Legion is in frenzy. It could also be very damaging to Legion to be removing the Deep Wounds, perhaps too big of a trade off for the Iridescent Button being base. Survivors wouldn't have to waste as much time healing which is bad for map pressure, but they also would have less information on where Legion is which is good for map pressure. Ultimately I think it would be a good trade however which is why I bring it up. It would be more fun for the killer player and survivors, in my opinion.

I think that if this change were implemented it would cut down on survivor annoyance of constant mending/healing. With Iridescent Button as a constant, Sloppy Butcher may be unnecessary to keep survivors occupied; instead they will be guessing more as to Legion's location/direction. Pallet mind games will also become more difficult for survivors as Legion will be somewhat more complicated than just facing an m1 killer. Builds I could see resulting from this could also be interesting, perhaps Unnerving Presence could become a staple on Legion instead of Ruin. Spirit Fury/Enduring could also help to annihilate pallets on the map much the way Billy does.

If it turns out underpowered in testing, there are also small tweaks that could help such as changing Legion's base terror radius 24 like Spirit to make them sneakier. It could also prove to be the case that even with these changes Legion can't finish chases quickly enough the way Demogorgon/Billy/Oni can. I don't think there's an easy way to fix that without overhauling Legion's power however. If this change turned out to be FAR too underpowered in testing, I could see adding a stealth element to Legion's kit being a good somewhat simple addition; make Legion gain Undetectable for perhaps 8 seconds after ending their power so they have the chance of catching someone off-guard if the survivors are playing risky.

That's where I would like to conclude my thoughts, hopefully this is coherent. Thanks for reading, to anyone who does!

Kabu

I'm not sure if it's a good trend to keep making killers that negate pallets. Survivors would have to bait for a stun to get any use out of them. Otherwise, they will just take the feral frenzy hit and hope Legion run elsewhere because they can't get away.

Legion needs a complete rework. Anything else would just be a bandaid fix and wouldn't cut it.

Raven014

Um... the whole point of Iri button addon is to get the map wide KI readings. Legion is an information killer, and requires all info they have. Breaking pallets is a nonissue and I'm fine with not having them break when vaulted.

Making Iri Button basekit but getting rid of the reason for having it is kinda pointless.

I think being able to down people with Frenzy should be possible, but semi-difficult.

I would keep the timer, but make the countdown visible to the killer, at least if they hit the survivor with frenzy.

Here's how I would redesign frenzy:

Make it so it takes 5 frenzy hits by default to down a survivor.

Frenzy lasts 60 seconds by default. First hit on a survivor gives another 60 seconds. Second hit gives you 55 seconds, third gives 50 seconds... you get the idea. You get less time per hit, but a good legion can down a survivor while in frenzy and you get the notion of a frenzy in the game. It'll be hard to down someone in frenzy alone, but it's possible. Franks mixtape would make it so that it takes one less hit to down someone (at the cost of minus 10 seconds per stab level). Stab Wounds Study would do the same but make a smaller DW timer. Combining them would make it 3 stabs with Frenzy, but you'd have a really small window to make it count.

Keep the KI so that if you want to pressure multiple survivors you can.

Myers_Is_My_Dad

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/851911#Comment_851911

I think a complete new power that has more to do with stabbing someone multiple times would make more sense for Legion's theme of a sadistic group of teenagers. It also seems to be really hard to implement a power like that. It hasn't had good results time and again.

I think this would do more than band-aid fix to make Iridescent Button base. It fundamentally transforms Legion into a killer whose sadistic aura fills the whole map, but who is almost just like the survivors in that they can vault things quickly; however unlike the survivors, the Entity breaks things for them to speed up the Legions killing process because the Entity enjoys their sadism.

In an ideal world I WOULD overhaul Legion's power to be more like the trailer. What I would do is make Legion a stalking killer who has a 24 terror radius. But instead of Exposing the person Legion is stalking, Legion secretly trades places with them when they are fully stalked; secret because the models don't change until Legion takes an action as the survivor, such as grabbing another survivor off of the generator. This would of course need limits, for example Legion could only make another survivor appear to be Legion for so long, maybe 12 seconds would be good and the stalking could be fairly quick something like 4 or 5 seconds. But the result of this would be a killer who can actually BECOME any of the survivors. Legion could even potentially outplay SWF players by trading places with them in a chase in order to put them in a spot where he can hit them. I'm not sure if it would be balanced, but as an overhaul it would be ideal to me. I'm sure by tweaking numbers it could turn out balanced, as well.