The One Stop Shop for Legion ideas! Come on in and take a look VERSION 2!
Comments
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I think if you remove the "Deep Wounds stacks eventually down someone" bit from the Mob Mentality idea and just make Feral Frenzy hits inflict action speed penalties, that gets rid of the part of the Legion that is most difficult to balance.
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Yeah, that might be true too.
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Awesome! I'm glad you like the idea.
As for your questions:
1. I did the math (took data from deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com) and made sure the stall potential is reduced.
So right now, it takes 12 seconds to mend and 16 seconds to heal (with a standard medkit), so it takes you 28 seconds total after being hit with Feral Frenzy to get back to full health. With my proposed 20 percent action speed reduction, you can start healing immediately so it would take you 19.2 seconds to get back to full health.
If you stack Filthy Blade and Nasty Blade, currently they add 4 seconds to mend so 16 seconds (mend) + 16 seconds (heal) so 32 seconds. If you stack them with my proposed change, resulting in a 35 percent action speed reduction, it would take 21.6 seconds.
Also, you can get your unaffected teammates to heal you and then there is no penalty.
That being said, if this is still too much stall and annoying to go against, the action speed penalties can be reduced or NB and FB can be reworked.
2. In my opinion, it would be OK to bring this aspect back now because Legion has a much higher cooldown for Feral Frenzy, can't see blood in FF and is taken out of his power if he whiffs so there is enough counterplay and time inefficiency for Legion that it shouldn't be a problem.
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@Almo @Peanits @not_Queen @MandyTalk @Gay Myers (Luzi)
I can't believe you did it. Good job. You have successfully made me lose all faith in BHVR and any hope that you listened to your community. All of this feed back and what do we get? The Deep Wound Changes... the Legion getting all that taken from them with just some movement speed to try and make up for it... even the Oni nerf in a small way, since you gave him no time to settle in like you said you would. I no longer want to play. I no longer want to support this game at all. Giving Legion the movement speed while removing all threat of Deep Wound... what? Are we supposed to be happy cause "At least it's something"? All these "Buffs" are just nerfs you slapped on Legion for no reason and are reverting. Survivors can get hit with Feral Frenzy and just run around. Something that is supposed to be them bleeding out... and they can run around no problem. You make Legion even weaker, cause none of you know how to handle their power or the Deep Wound mechanic which was flawed to begin with. You couldn't just replace Deep Wound. No, you just made Legion's power literally a punishment. So yea.... You did it. You made me give up. Congratulations.
Post edited by UlvenDagoth on3 -
Just remove Deep wounds from Legion if it's so darn hard to balance.
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Since they want to cremate Legion with burning them when they were already Dead.
Rework for Legion. The ashes of the Legion form together into one body. The Legion has the power to leave copies of themselves (A ashen version of the former Legion member) as traps. These traps set Survivors on fire, making them scream and lose a health state. Feral Frenzy is replaced with "Ashen Advance" Where the ashes flow into the Fog, speeding across the Trial to converge on the closest Survivor.
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Devs at this stage you honestly have three suggestions you could take to effectively fix Legion.
Suggestion number 1:
This is probably the most preferable to most people who mainly Legion. Keep the fast speed, killer instinct, chain hits and the vaulting aspect of Legion but replace deep wounds with another status condition because you guys legitimately cannot properly balance it.
Any time you try to balance deep wounds it ends up having a knock on effect which nerfs Legion and buffs borrowed time and styptic agent.
Once you implement a different status condition it would be a lot easier for you guys to effectively balance their kit so even though they're power is not lethal it can at least contest with Lethal abilities. Because in its current state frenzy really doesn't do much but waste both The Legion and survivors' time
Suggestion number 2:( Personally I'm not a fan of this because I do enjoy the vaulting and the stabbing but at this stage it might be necessary)
Rework Legion from scratch give them a completely different power. Give them an ability that has lethality so they can can contest with other Killers.
There have been multiple suggestions for a completely different power for Legion most of which are in this thread. Ranging from focusing on Legion having a group-based ability to others amazing ideas.
Suggestion number 3:
Increase the effectiveness of the frenzy aspects besides deep wounds. In its current state does not do enough for it to warrant the immense amount of downsides that Legion's kit brings to them.
So if you want to continue having deep wounds be attached to Legion without changing the affliction or completely reworking the power then please and minimise these downsides.
1) 4 seconds stun being probably the biggest contender. Revert it back to 3 seconds even if you have to change the add-ons to compensate
2) Reducing the limit on the tracking capabilities without the ability to do the moonwalk exploit anymore and frenzy having no real lethal capabilities there's no need to have blood or scratch marks be blocked from the Legion
3) power depletion once again frenzy doesn't really have any lethal potential so having your power completely depleted on a missed swing is stupid. Either have the ability just get cancelled out but you keep your current progression or revert the missed hit effects.
4) This goes hand in hand with the problem above but having to wait roughly 20 seconds to get your power back on something that is not lethal is ridiculous. It's not a blink or phasing where I can actually down people so why do I have to wait so so long between uses is beyond me. It also makes using the power as a traversal tool absolutely terrible.
5) final point for this suggestion but for the love of God rework the add-ons.
Franks mixtape and stab wounds study have literally become way more useless than they were before.
If you have fuming mixtape you're punished for actually using your ability.
The killer instinct detection range add-ons suck please change them back to speed.
Pins you guys did a good job with this but can you please increase the duration of these add-ons cause currently there pitiful. Especially considering you've taken synergy out of frenzy when it comes to perks like sloppy Butcher or third seal which did these jobs better.
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Power
We are Legion
There are 2 other husks on the board that are hollow. When ability is activated take control of one of the husks and leave your husk behind. 30 second cool-down. Husks have original killer terror radius terror radius. Husks do not have collision.
Addons
could add up to 2 more husks
shorten cool down
increase terror radius
115 movement 24 m terror
This gives him strategic play and makes it feel like there are more killers on the board but there is only 1.
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While the reverted nerfs are welcome on Legion , the deep wound nerf makes Legion even more of a joke . The main problem right now is that there is no difference for Legion between chasing an injured survivor, or chasing a survivor with deep wound on. the power itself serves no purpose in the chase once the survivor is not healthy. In SOME cases , sometimes you will inflict deep wound on an injurd survivor for the detection ability, but this is rare, usually you will, like all killers, want to chase down the person you inflicted deep wound on , especially if killer istinct is not revealing anyone near. then you have to stun yourself for 4 seconds (3 seconds base was fine btw) before starting the chase again. And like I said, once the chase restarts there is no difference for Legion between chasing an injured survivor and a survivor with deep wound active. You just have to be a m1 killer (albeit one with a 4 second stun between the first hit and being able to chase again) and eat every pallet, every vault like a m1 killer, which is NOT fun.
If you at BHVR hate the deep wound mechanic on Legion, I do agree it could be replaced with a debuff, and I'll even be more precise : it should be replaced by a debuff that MATTERS in a chase, such that Legion has incentive to use his power on injured survivors , which is NOT the case right now , right now if you stab an injured survivor with deep wound and nothing shows up in killer istinct, congratulations you just offered the survivor 4 seconds of free distance from you, because you have to stun yourself for those 4 whole seconds to restart the chase and actually be threatening to the survivor now. (and IF you want to go stab someone else ? Then the survivor you were chasing wins the chase, and you just gave up a lot of time for maybe another chase where this will happen all over again) Deep Wound right now is not a threat, which makes no sense for the killer. you have to suffer some kind of penalty that matters in a chase if you have deep wound, else why even bother with it once survivors start to work on gens while injured ?
On the subject of add-ons now :
- pin add-ons : pin add-ons are straight up bad. Even after that rework, they still are. The debuff inflicted by pin add-ons are on one hand, too weak to matter in most of the cases, broken and mangled on a killer where you don't necessarily want to heal against, wow that's threatening right ?????? and blindness for like 30 seconds ? This is NOT good. Reworking the pins so they can be applied to multiple people make sense, but now that means pins can't be applied to the first person you hit in your frenzy which is questionnable to me, considering good players will always spread against Legion and without some seriously good duration add-ons (and if you equip a single pin you can only use stolen sketch book at most ) you will not make proper use of the current pins anyway.
- killer instinct detection range : This is mostly entirely useless. Why ? Legion suffers from a general lack of duraiton to properly chain stabs considering his power does nothing to help you win a chase, and making you chase people who are further away from you , while robbing you of a duration slot add-ons (because yes, most legions want to use both slots for duration, this is how bad the other add-ons moslty are) , is not going to help you chain stabs. At all. And if those killer instinct add-ons are just meant to give you info on survs far away without letting you chain stabs, I'm sorry to say but they're really really bad and this may explains why NO ONE use killer instinct range add-ons seriously (except for iri button which is an exception as it's actually useful in other ways)
- rulers : they are fine, though the effect they have is.... limited. But they are brown and yellow add-ons, so this is not surprising or too annoying. They could be used to maybe incentivise hitting survivors with normal attacks THEN use feral frenzy, in the same way nurse has now very original add-ons that modify her gameplay ???? You COULD do something like that with those.
- Cooldown : The cooldown of current Legion, considering (and this is really important) that your power does NOT allow you to end a chase , is frankly atrocious. At release, Legion had a base cool-down of 3 seconds, which could be further reduced by 1.25 ( I think ?) second using cooldown add-ons, and it felt really fast. BHVR clearly thought this needed a little bit of a nerf. Fine. But then they nerfed cooldown in TWO ways instead of one, which makes current Legion cooldown atrocious : 4 seconds base is really really bad for your chase, and in the current meta Legions don't use a lot of cooldown add-ons, because again you NEED that duration. If a Legion use ONLY cold dirt as a cooldown add-on, the cooldown is still 3.4 seconds, which takes LONGER than the initial legion without cooldown add-ons, and the initial legion cooldown felt long too. This is NOT fine.
- knives : Considering what BHVR told us about mending and the knife add-ons, I feel those should be straight up reworked entirely like the nurse add-ons, and maybe buff a potential debuff Legion could apply on feral frenzy hits ?????
- Stab wound study : Why does this exist now , with the deep wound timer being that much of a joke ????? This also need a FULL rework, maybe make the debuff applied by potential new feral frenzy become worse over time, to make survivors want to mend earlier and not do a gen while debuffed ? This would keep the add-on in line with its old objective.
- Frank mixtape : could apply a stronger or "super" debuff on a double feral frenzy hit, maybe at some cost ( to see which) to have ONE "super" debuff on a surv in a trial ? Thid add-on also need to get reworked anyway considering devs clearly do NOT want to make Legion a killer which chases you with feral frenzy until you go down.
- Iri button : it's fine, literally the only add-on worth using in my eyes along with a stolen sketch book in place of mural sketch, I can only hope it never gets nerfed, the only reason why I don't use it more is that I don't have more of it.
- Fuming mix tape : My only regret with this add-on is that wraith has an objectively superior version, and legion needs all the help he can gets, because to even use fuming mix tape Legion need to waste power charge, and prevent himself from being able to see scratchmarks, and he also need to suffer the 40 second cooldown, while wraith version of this add-on , while not that popular, still has its uses and feels ok to play.
I hope someone from BHVR read this post to the end, and if you could tell me that I did not write this huge wall of text for nothing , even a simple "I read this post" would be really nice to me. I'm really hoping this helps.
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