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The Stats don't perfectly show balance
If you think if killer sided simply due to the killrate, I'm almost certain that most of that percentage is because of low ranks. At low ranks, survivors get demolished very easily.
At higher ranks, killers tend to get gripped by the survivors and the killer (if not top tier) is vs a swf or good group may stand literally no chance.
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Did you see the graph for Red Ranks?
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The thing about the stats they gave us is that its a mess of statistics from all platforms, merged into one. The only thing you can take for granted are the extremes (strongest/weakest) since its coherently the same across all platforms.
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But the second graph is literally only red ranks.
you killers can interpert the results as much as you want but every time the devs have released stats the kill rate has ALWAYS been above 50%.
Except last time the results (according to killers) wasn't accurate because it involved DCs, now that every killer is basically 60-70% the stats don't prove anything (according to killers) because y'all want super specific results to try and make killers look less powerful than they are.
Again, the only people complaining about the stats is killers, I've seen two dozens posts from killers "this doesn't prove anything" in the past two days, and one survivor post titled something like "this proves killers are wrong".
The game ain't hard, on either side, and it hasn't been for a while.
I'm almost 100% positive if the stats said the survival rate was 70% y'all would be screaming for more survivors nerfs.
Here's the last stats, you can see how little an increase the survival rate is based on how many are in a game, 4-mans only increase survival rate by 7%.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/61114/community-community-data-requests#latest
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Sure.
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Peanits Dev∙Community Manager › Dev, Community Manager Posts: 4,382
November 25 edited November 25
I feel like I really need to stress this line from that post:
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT NUMBERS ARE NOT EVERYTHING; THERE ARE A WHOLE BUNCH OF FACTORS THAT COULD INFLUENCE THESE NUMBERS.
To use the Spirit as an example, as we've mentioned many times before, we do not balance based on stats alone. We make sure to do our research first and there's a lot of compelling arguments for why she should have been changed.
And again, there's a bunch of different factors involved. Is Freddy overpowered, or is it just a combination of perks and add-ons that make him that strong? These are all things that need to be considered.
So just to reiterate one last time, I really would not recommend drawing any conclusions from these stats. These are averages, not specific and incredibly detailed data that you should draw any conclusions from.
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I agree that stats don't necessarily show balance but the OP basically ignores the second graph entirely.
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Devs confirmed that these stats don't represent a balance point in DbD.
Post edited by Marcus on0 -
The only things these stats prove is that the devs need to stop giving them out. Even when the devs say that the numbers "are not everything" and can "be influenced by a number of factors", too many people want to use the numbers to spin their own narcissistic narrative because the game isn't balanced to their specifications.
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Stats can never show the full story because there is so many other factors at play, such as perks, playstyles etc. That's why you cannot go on stats alone, sorry for those that think we should - but it just doesn't work like that.
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The stats have console included, they balance for pc, idk why console stats are even in there.
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Were you able to read the other thread where i tagged you about some particular questions? If you don't know, can you tag someone who can answer them? Basically i asked the following:
1. Can you define what types of matches constituted as being 'Red Ranks' matches? (e.g. - a.) All 5 players started the match in Red Ranks, b.) Killer started the match in Red Rank but not necessarily survivors, c.) All 4 survivors started in Red Ranks but not necessarily the killer, d.) at least 1 player started the match in Red Rank, e.) majority of the players (3/5) started the match in Red Ranks.)
2. Why were the Nurse's kill rate statistic only given for PC? Can you provide them for the other consoles?
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People should stop saying this. There literally is no difference between console and PC in terms of balance. The only thing that is affected by this is the framerate drops that deter some console players from playing nurse, but that's literally it. And even then it can still be done. Like seriously, where did people get the idea that there is this huge difference between console and PC its pretty ridiculous.
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I don't want to agree, because I find these stats interesting in terms of what everyone is picking. And I think it's a good idea to measure pick rate because it might be a measure of who's the most fun. However I'm going to HAVE to agree. The devs should probably stop handing them out. Otherwise we'll get post like this where people will be all "AHA! This PROVES that...."
And it's super annoying how people will outright ignore the devs saying "Do not draw any conclusions from this." But people will decide to make posts about it anyway. Like...stop...can we not do this? I'm so sick of these posts.
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Remember to play Killer so you have a 50/50 experience and your opinion actually matters.
I play tons of surv, hit red ranks on both every season.
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Except that it's true that these kind of stats are not fully representative of the game's balance. There are way too many factors that influence these stats. It would be the same thing if survivor rate would be above 50%.
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They're extremely surv biased.
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So are we all going to ignore that the Nurse's kill rate on the PC only graph is nearly identical to the mixed console/PC red rank graph?
I do also agree about not releasing stats. They're neat to look at but people are just going to keep their opinions even if the stats don't support it, because most people posting on here are statistically illiterate.
If you're aiming for an average of 50/50, and literally every killer in the game is significantly above that, then something *is* wrong. Could be a whole bunch of things (maybe it's too easy to rank up as survivor, maybe moris are used frequently).
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Wait who is?
To be fair though these stats also show that multiple killers probably don't need any buffs. If kill rates get to high, that would mean survivors don't get to escape very often at all, reducing the motivation to play survivor. It also shows why we can't balance this game around perfectly organized 4 man swf's, and why increasing objective time at the moment without a plethora of other changes at the same time would ruin this game.
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Theses stats would have more meaning of they were way more specific, like specifying the platform, SWF or not, perk builds/add-on/offerings used.
Just the map stats alone are pretty worthless because it's all ranks and all platforms.
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No they wouldn't. You'd just move the goal post again once very little changed.
They posted red rank nurse PC only kill rate and she's at 65.8%. If you look at the red rank graph, she's right around 65%. And that's on a killer that everyone acknowledges is harder to play on console than PC.
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Yeah because 1 killer is enough to draw conclusions like this.
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what I want to see from Nurse specifically is pick rate after rework, for a total of 3 months post rework. Her pick rate for the last 3 months is one of the lower ones, and the final graph doesn’t mention pick rate. Peanits said immediately post rework her pick rate went up as people tried the changes out, and that does make sense, but I want to know if, assuming no further changes, she’s still picked as often as she used to be come January. People are reporting seeing far fewer Nurses post rework, and I’m curious to see if that’s accurate or bias. I know my Nurse doesn’t show up anymore personally, since I don’t find her fun to play anymore, but I’m one player...I’m not indicative of the whole.
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There's so much that goes into this. DC's, survivors suiciding on hooks, Moris, keys, afk killers, and in particular match making and ranking. It only takes one lesser skilled survivor to screw over the entire team.
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DCs aren't counted in these stats, per Peanits. Also per Peanits on last time these stats were done, DCs don't really change what they look like.
For the other stuff, that's what's nice about average over large data sets. Unless keys and moris are being run every game, they end up being noise that gets drowned out by the sheer volume of games played.
But uhh I guess continue trying to come up with reasons why the stats are wrong rather than just... considering you might be mistaken?
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I'm not coming up with any reasons for why the stats are wrong, no. I just gave some reason as to why the stats aren't fully representative of the game's balance, pointing out what factors have an affect on these stats. I see no reason to ignore those.
Of course, Moris and keys have the least influence on these stats, but I don't think they should be ignored. Matchmaking and ranking obviously has the most influence on the stats.
Also, if you say dc's aren't counted, does that mean the entire match isn't counted? Since one survivor dcing or suiciding on hook often screws over the other three survivors and gets them killed, even though they would have had a chance to escape if that one survivor didn't rage quit.
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I believe that the entire match was discarded if there was a DC, according to Peanits. I don't know if they excluded suicide on hook.
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That would be smart and make the stats at least a bit more representative of the game's balance.
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Thanks Peanits. For not immediately treating me like garbage and twisting my words. I'm so proud of this community. My red rank comment WASNT about the survival rate being lower.
Question, however. Are DCs included in the stats?
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Unfortunately it doesn’t take into account that when versing SWF, they usually get overly altruistic and get killed on their first hook saving a friend etc.
Do the stats show gen times and number of hooks etc? I’d like to see it in details, cause kills aren’t everything.
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Nurse at 65% in red ranks.... suuuuuuuuuuuuree. Maybe if you play like a psicopath, toxic, and have nerves of steel. What a wonderful way to "enjoy" a game.
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Can you answer these questions, @Peanits ?
1. Can you define what types of matches constituted as being 'Red Ranks' matches? (e.g. - a.) All 5 players started the match in Red Ranks, b.) Killer started the match in Red Rank but not necessarily survivors, c.) All 4 survivors started in Red Ranks but not necessarily the killer, d.) at least 1 player started the match in Red Rank, e.) majority of the players (3/5) started the match in Red Ranks.)
2. Why were the Nurse's kill rate statistic only given for PC? Can you provide them for the other consoles?
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You obviously didnt looked up all the graphs if you say it due to lowranks.
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