Survivor sided based on what.....
I'm genuinely curious here.
For those who believe DBD is survivor biased, what are you basing this claim on?
(My personal opinion is that the game is relatively balanced with 2-3 person SWF, slightly killer sided with all solos, and only slightly survivor sides with 4 man swf.)
But like really what data ANYWHERE suggests this game is as survivor sided as people claim. Not looking for hypothetical situations. Talking about actual data
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playing with a WELL coordinated 4 man SWF can be difficult for killers.
but for the most part, it’s killer sided but nobody will admit it
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Pipping for one. It's stupid easy for survivors to rank up, yet high rank killer takes perfect play and people can't gen rush. Bug fixes is another. Oni was barely released and his "bugged" flick was removed, yet you have survivors spawning right in front of hex totems for a long time and not a peep out of the devs... Unless you count Peanits and his "You have my permission to not run it" line, which to me is as insulting as the "play something else" line.
How I see it, at low ranks, killer wins a lot. Medium ranks is fairly balanced, and high rank survivors destroy killers. The question is how do you balance higher ranks without completely screwing over the lower ranks?
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Ranking system bad
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Isn't it the killer's job to choose chases wisely and apply pressure on generators? I agree gens are too fast with toolboxes but sometimes the killer is at fault for losing. If a killer can't end a chase in 60 seconds or less it should be avoided
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I agree that's a problem, but that's an issue with the pipping system. It's trash and needs to be changed.
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That's fair. In a situation where everyone is just pumping out gens with toolboxes and hitting every Ruin skill check, games can be very survivor sided. (I would die playing like that, it's too boring but I get your point)
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If a chase can't be ended in 60 seconds or less it should be avoided?!? Barring nurse, how exactly are you supposed to down survivors then?
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I don't agree with that in all cases. I run Whispers on every killer, non-negotiable as long as I have it. I find survivors quickly and get things rolling
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Because when you play with a set group of people, you can finish generators too fast and for a killer to lose a game, it takes one or two mistakes. I have no idea why people claim it is killer sided. You can end games in 5 minutes, that is 5 chases max even with your 60sec chase thingy.
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That's no joke. I have video of a game that I just played. Nurse with Franklins, Thanataphobia, Ruin, and Pop. At 1:19 my ruin went down, at 5:39 the last gen popped, and at 6:25 the door was open. There wasn't a single toolbox. I got a 2K and depip.
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I agree. Many times the killer just runs behind a survivor into an infinite and gets looped for minutes.
But many times you just can't do anything because you're playing against good survivors. The math tell you which side the game favors.
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Didn't you say in another topic that the killer should ALWAYS be chasing survivors?
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It's kind of hard to apply pressure to 4 survivors and that's why tunneling is effective (even though I don't like it so don't do it) because it removes 1 survivor from the game and it's much easier to pressure 3 survivors.
You say drop the chase but the moment you drop the chase you have to walk to a generator, hoping that a survivor is on it whilst the survivor you just dropped chase on is already on a gen. Sometimes dropping a chase works but against good survivors it unfortunately doesn't always work.
I'll use an example of one of my games a little over a month ago:
Map was Wretched Shop and I was playing Wraith at purple ranks. I find a survivor and injure them and they run straight to the Wretched Shop, which we can all agree on is a horrendous loop. So me thinking I'm being smart drops the chase on the survivor and goes to a generator AWAY from the Wretched Shop to avoid the building but nope a survivor sprint bursts to Wretched Shop and loops it. To cut a long story short all 4 of them knew how to efficiently run the Wretched Shop and I got a 1k because I commited to the chase resulting in all generators being done and camping the final person to at least secure one kill.
Some people need to understand that dropping the chase is completely map reliant and if there are strong structure then dropping the chase wont work if all of them know how to abuse them.
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I'm basing it on well over 4,000 hours played as both sides at rank 1 on every reset for years. That's quite a lot of collected data. Keep in mind my survivor play is almost exclusively solo as well.
Most people that don't think the game is survivor sided in terms of power role are people that don't play both sides at the max rank or are new players in general and are solely basing their opinion watching streamers/youtubers or the flawed stats we have.
Lower ranks do not give an accurate read of the games balance as most lower rank survivors play really bad and make killers look stronger than they are.
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Playing Solo queue since forever. Game is Survivor sided the trick is it only requires the whole survivor team actually play like their actual Ranks which is really rare since Most random survivors are as dumb as a rock and just makes countless incompetent mistakes that makes it harder for the whole team.
Imagine a whole team of randoms that has the same mentality as Ussylis and you'll realize that survivor doesn't need to be SWF to be good just game sense.
The first match just shows it. Managed to come back from a Billy slugging all three people. While the other survivor did mess up and all three got downed they did act appropriately after revived. Took a 1 for 1, Revived everyone and run in three different directions from the billy so he can't snowball again and didn't bother healing, Just did generators.
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To be fair ulysses is one of the top survivors out there. But yeah i win my solo survivor matches like 90% of the time and i escape roughly 60% of the time.
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Well I never hat the impression that killers are weak. I am rank 15 and I am playing with a friend.
That means 2 premade and 2 random.
I would say we manage to escape every 3rd on some days every 4th game.
The random 2 people often just get hooked within the first few minutes and even when we save them they will be caught again quite quickly.
So basically we are 2vs1 on these matches and most of them we of course lose.
I don't know why there is no voice chat to begin with... Maybe to make the game creepier for people without friends?
When the 2 random survivors are somewhat cooperating despite the lack of communication though it is nice games.
I'd say we win half of these games.
But yea in general I maybe escape every 3rd or 4th game. And in most games when I do not escape, the entire team is butchered as well.
So I don't know about all that "survivors are overpowered" stuff... I think that might only be in high elo with 4 man premade.
For example when the killer has HEX RUIN it is so hard to escape with the 2 randoms... Maybe out of those we win every 6th game or so...
Until we find and defused the correct totem usually there is 1 to 2 dead players...
So HEX RUIN always either makes it a 2vs1 or 3vs1 or in some cases we are all sacrificed before even finding the totem and 0 generators are repaired...
I think they should just give us voice chat so they can balance the game better for all different modes.
But damn if they make killers even stronger and I will only escape one in ten games or something I will stop playing the game.
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Gens can be done so quickly that it's hard to argue that the game is killer sided. In fact the only time I'd say the game is killer sided is at ranks 20-12. New players cant possibly find gens, get them done, loop and rescue each other in time unless they're smurfing.
But. And this is a BIG butt (heh), a team of good survivors (regardless of being solo or being on a squad) will make even the best killer players sweat. Gens can be done in just 80 seconds, even with ruin assuming they hit every great and that it isn't cleansed early . Meanwhile a -good- chase can last anywhere from 30 seconds to several minutes (assuming the killer doesn't cut their losses and drop chase) depending on the map, pallet and window rng, and perks. This gives gen jockeys tons of time to pop several gens in the early game.
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Look at TydeTimes videos considering the balance. He has proven that professional survivor teams (without self care) can pretty much always destroy proffesional killers. Because when they genrush there is just not enough time for the most of the killers to do anything. Even profi Nurse had a very hard time.
If you play solo and with some random survivors, this game is usually balanced pretty well. You can even say that killers have an edge. Although toolboxes still need nerf. But when you meet good teams with all the good perks, this game is suddenly unbalanced and killers have to rely on survivors mistakes. Thats why we all say the game is survivor sided. Not everytime but when you consider good players, it just is.
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Unskilled survivors = ez killer win
Moderately skilled survivors = about even
Skilled survivors = survivor sided
Of course this changes depending on the killer being used and if that killer user really sucks. But for most of the roster, if you go against an optimal team, you rely almost entirely on them making mistakes to keep you in the game, very little of it revolves around your actual skill as killer.
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Generator time, mainly.
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Maps are the core issue in this game. How a beginner, intermediate, and advanced player uses map tiles is what distinguishes them. Beginners don't know how to loop and just camp pallets. Intermediates know how to loop within ONLY that tile until the pallet is dropped. Advanced players COMBO multiple tiles using window/vaults until they need to drop the pallet. This tile combo'ing is the biggest problem in the game at higher ranks. People that are good at chaining tiles can almost reset the chase and then recycle the tiles. Bloodlust and window entity blocks are a few mechanics to counter this, but they can still be too strong and waste a lot of the killer's time.
A possible fix is to this is to space out the tiles more, or add to the map algorithm how strong each tile is and limit how many of each can spawn in a map.
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Agreed
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You can usually get off of a chase and straight on another one because of how much information and control killers have. I didn't mean always extremely literally but unless the killer is always chasing they have a small chance of winning.
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Although I disagree with the information portion, I'll agree with the viability of stringing together chases :)
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The game is only as survivor sided as the map you know
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I don't believe that our conversation was relevant to maps at all.
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One of the biggest problems is map design. There are so many big maps that most killers aren't able to effectively pressure at all. This is why Nurse, Billy, Spirit, and Freddy are top tier. They can traverse almost any map with ease while putting pressure on survivors. However, when you get a map like Mother's Dwelling as a 115 M1 killer, you might as well give up. Most killers don't have the ability to traverse the map quickly with their power, hence why killers like Trapper, Clown, and Bubba are at the bottom of the barrel. There are so many large maps in this game with effective loops to boot, or problems of their own. Examples:
Mother's Dwelling: Largest map in the game. Cabin is a really strong looping spot.
Sanctum of Wrath: Another large map. Map is so dark and has so much foliage it is impossible to see anything.
Rotten Fields: Large map. Way too much corn, most killers can barely see.
Haddonfield: Relatively large map. So many strong loops with the houses and fences.
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I think people just like to complain. My experience is that it's about the same. I am the same rank on both killers and survivors. I progress very similarly on both sides. If you take away pipping and the ranking system, it depends on player skill and game efficiency. If you are surviving and draw skilled killers, the game is hard even more so with unskilled teammates. If you are the killer, the survivor skill and team work can make the game hard but that's part of it. The honest answer is some killers are powerful and hard to play against. However, iron sharpens iron. Learn and play harder. Being in a difficult game is part of the it, use it to hone your skills.
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True but I'm not expecting everyone to be a God at looping like Ulysses but I just hope people look at his mentality throughout his match where his actions is mostly in consideration for the whole team and being as pain in the neck as possible for the killer like where you get downed, what gen you do, where you loop, not dropping strong pallets and taking a hit instead,etc Can really hurt a killer that has no mobility in the long run Just common sense survivors should have.
Like seriously this is my match in red ranks just now and I have Kindred and this is what I get.
Three guys not doing anything bum rushing to save me on the basement despite me having Kindred and is fully aware someone is going for the save. Third guy was out of the camera view but he's at the left hiding behind a tree.
You don't have to be a Top survivor to realize that's such a dumb thing to do really but yet Red ranks still do this. Heck all my matches so far has everyone prematurely opening exit gates and screwing the last survivor getting chased over by the timer.
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Red ranks mean literally nothing for survivor. You do 1 gen, save 1 person, and you have already safetied.
Meanwhile for red rank killer it's 4k or depip lmao. Or 4k and depip!
The game is survivor sided because good survivors are all "gods" at looping like Ulysses because it's honestly not that hard to loop safe pallets, and many maps are safe pallet galore. The good thing is that most survivors are too bad to take advantage of them.
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You'll understand one day when you play against good survivors.
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Yes thanks for repeating what I said.
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When did they change the safety pip requirements?
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I will admit I preferred it when the ranks were shown in the lobby as a survivor. If I saw a rank 9 and two rank 10s, I would tend to think they were an SWF as the matchmaker shouldnt pull a rank 16 into that lobby. I could then dodge, or take a gamble I would safety pip. But I had the choice.
Now I have to assume the matchmaker pays note to my rank and would expect team mates around my rank same as killer. I posted elsewhere what can happen.
In addition I try to learn in harder matches when I SWF with a buddy who is a rank 8 survivor. I do depip but usually I get a neutral, sometimes even a pip depending on the match as it unfolds.
At my rank I need 6 points to safety pip. At higher ranks like 8 I think its is seven points. At red ranks I would assume it is eight points.
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I honestly don't pay attention enough when I play survivor. I just breeze to rank 1. You get the idea though.
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75 killer win rate. those who think its survivor sided are just the really bad killers who dont get wins handed to them. the others believe they're really good, just ######### about the 1 guy who gets away because survivors are op.
75% says it all.
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That is because the overwhelming majority of survivors are terrible and can't run a basic jungle gym loop to save their lives. You could literally 1v1 the majority of the killers in the game for the last 2-3 years. Only recently were survivors nerfed so this was no longer easily done.
Don't forget the hordes of babies who murder themselves on first hook, handing the killer a free 3k at a minimum.
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You need to use a word that implies poor quality killer when you offer your opinion about what happens to killers. No decent killer ever gets gen rushed. NEVER EVER. If you're chasing 1 survivor for 3 minutes, then you're a bad killer at playing and a bad killer in your tactical know how. Git Gud
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dont forget the swf, dont forget keys, dont forget everything you ######### about to give survivors that 25%.
at the point stats demonstrably prove you wrong you should have the humility to keep quiet.
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Yeah i see average survivors im red ranks too, as killer and survivor. If BHVR would fix their ranking system this problem would be way less intimidating i think.
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As you can see. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that the game is survivor sided. Just a bunch of bad players salty about their lack of skill.
The data points to killers being the winners over 50% of the time in red ranks.
Despite how easy it is to just run around, perk less, only using your attack and still get wins as killer lol
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The developers themselves said to not use the stats to argue game balance. Silly goon.
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How about the fact that a survivor can still escape with five gens up by a magical randomly spawning hatch even if they did absolutely nothing all game.
It just irritates me to get 3 survivors gone and find the last teabagging on the hatch with 5 gens up.
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oh, since they said not to, well then, who am i to hold their stats and make them justify it? much easier to just ask people to not pay attention. stats are stats. come up with any rhetoric you want, the stats say it all.
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You're low rank, people here are talking about people that are good. Of course at low rank you're going to be teamed up with potatoes. Get to the higher ranks and watch the killer get bullied or better yet play as killer into the high ranks then come back and talk to us...
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This game has always favoured survivors and this is still the case, just search for Marth88's experiments.
Whether the killer wins is not determined by how good the killer is, it is determined by how many mistakes survivors make.
Just take into consideration that a chase will last 40-60 seconds if not more, and before the chase even begins it usually will take 10-30 seconds to find a survivor, that would be 50-90 seconds. A generator (without accounting for great skillchecks or toolboxes, Prove Thyself, etc) takes only 80 seconds to complete and they can be repaired simultaneously. This means that by the end of your first chase, if the survivors are efficient, you will be hearing 2-3 generators be completed, and even if they are not repaired by then you will probably hear their completion as you walk up to them, it is why every killer uses Ruin, Pop Goes the Weasel or Corrupt Intervention and slowdown perks.
And then there are the things that make chases last even longer, pallets within 10 metres of each other, overpowered loops (Most of the main buildings, the entirety of Haddonfield, and connected tiles) , large maps in which generators are repaired faster than you walk in between them, exhaustion perks for free distance and probably something else I forgot to list.
Conclusion: This game is not killer sided.
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I almost can't play nice at red ranks and win, at least not without playing someone like spirit.
I can get into a game as ghostface, walk to a gen, stalk someone to exposed, get into a tiny 20~ second chase, down them, and 2 gens have popped. How is it even possible to win the game doing the chases one at a time? I am not sure it is. There are simply too many safe pallets on the maps.
The most infuriating thing in this game is when I go out of my way to play nice, and still get BM'd in the endgame chat. Hey, the meg got downed at 5 gens and went into the basement. But I still let her out without contest. Still hook everyone, get robbed of a 4k by a 4% into DS at the exit gate "NOOB KILLER EASY GAME LOL"
That's why I don't care about survivors fun anymore.
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Assuming that both sides play efficiently, the game is survivor sided. For one simple reason, time. Time is not on the side of the killers. This is of course assuming that the map is neutral. The map can swing things alot in one sides favor.
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But games stats show high rank games end up more on killer wins that anything
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