My ideas for changes to Keys and Moris
Hi- first post on forums- I've seen some discussion about the power of Keys and Moris and wanted to share my thoughts on it.
In this post I'll be talking about both Keys and Moris, and proposing changes to them.
(Also, when I say "Moris" I'm referring to Ebony/Ivory Memento Moris)
what makes keys over-powered?
There's a few points commonly mentioned when discussing Keys.
- Keys allow Survivors to escape early- without completing generators
- Keys are the safest items to bring- with the use of Milky Glass and Weaved Ring add-ons
- Keys have little to no counter-play
These are all true. Provided at least 1 Survivor has died, only 4 generators need to be completed for everyone to escape. If 2 Survivors have died, the remaining Survivors can escape only with 3 generators completed.
And even if all 4 Survivors are alive, or just 1, Keys still have their uses. All 4 Survivors can escape through the Hatch without opening an Exit Gate, however, this requires all 5 generators being completed- so most people aren't bothered by it. As the last Survivor remaining, a Key guarantees a Hatch escape as long as you know where it is. The Killer cannot stop you from opening the Hatch with a Key and jumping in.
As mentioned, Keys can also be completely safe to bring. Using the Milky Glass and Weaved Ring add-ons on a Key will prevent you from losing it when you die, and also prevent you from losing it if you open the Hatch. This makes Keys no-risk, but high reward items.
The only counter-play that Keys have is Franklin's Demise. This is a single perk, locked behind a Licensed Killer, and it is the only thing that can help against Keys. A lot of people don't have this perk, and the people who do might not use it every game. So while Keys DO have some counter-play, it's not very practical, or even possible, for a lot of people.
Some might argue, "Protect generators to counter Keys" but this isn't really a fair thing to say. It's like saying, "Don't get hooked to counter Moris"
Killers are GOING to down and hook Survivors, and Survivors are GOING to repair generators.
In conclusion, Keys are powerful items which create an unfun experience for Killers. But they shouldn't be scrapped completely.
Here are some of my proposed changes to Keys:
- To open the Hatch, you must now perform a short interaction (8 seconds)
- While performing this action, you can be interrupted with a grab or swing
- Keys, by default, only open the Hatch for 1 person, then immediately close.
- The Milky Glass add-on decreases the time required to open the Hatch by 50% (4 seconds)
- The Weaved Ring add-on increases the time the Hatch stays open by 30 seconds
- The Killer can now interact with a closed Hatch to call upon the Entity to defend it
- The Entity makes the Hatch take an additional 4 seconds to open
- The Killer receives a loud noise notification when a Survivor is opening the Hatch
So how does this change gameplay?
Keys will still have their power, being capable of pulling off epic escapes in dire situations. However, they are considerably harder to use.
Without the Weaved Ring add-on, only 1 person can escape per Key. This means that Keys randomly found in chests won't let multiple Survivors escape, unless the person finding it got really lucky with Ace In The Hole.
Even with the Milky Glass add-on being used to open the Hatch, the Killer will be able to hit to Survivor over and over again to cancel the interaction.
Because neither of the add-ons protect the Key now, you can't just bring a Key to every match and never lose it.
The Killer is now rewarded for finding Hatch first, even when it's closed. Survivors can still easily escape with the Entity blocking the Hatch, but the Killer will have much better defensive capabilities for guarding the Hatch.
Overall? Keys would still be powerful, but hopefully they'd feel a lot less unfair to play against if these changes were implemented.
What makes moris over-powered?
Thankfully for my typing fingers, Moris are a little more straightforward than Keys:
- Moris allow the Killer to end a match much faster
- Moris don't add anything interesting to gameplay
- Moris have absolutely no counter-play
I'm not going to talk as much about Moris as I did with Keys, since the problem is very obvious.
Memento Moris, particularly the Ebony Memento Mori, is over-powered. It just is. And it's supposed to be. In the game, it exists as an Ultra-Rare offering. By design, the Ebony Mori is supposed to be an extremely powerful tool which allows Killers to easily dominate entire Survivor teams.
The problem is, that's a stupid idea. Everyone, Killers and Survivors, can agree that is a stupid idea. You shouldn't be able to burn an offering to allow yourself an easy win.
Moris are OP, and everyone knows it.
Okay, but the question is, what do we do about them, besides just deleting their existence?
I have a rather simple proposal:
- Ebony Memento Mori now require 2 hooks to kill Survivors
- Reduced rarity from Ultra-Rare to Rare
- Ivory Memento Moris now also require 2 hooks
You might have a few questions about this, and I'll answer them.
"After 2 hooks, the Survivor is already dead-on-hook, so what's the point in the Mori?"
To put it simply, there isn't much point in the Mori. It just becomes a cool looking kill which adds to the atmosphere of the game.
That being said though, a downed player who is dead-on-hook isn't necessarily dead yet, and using the Mori could protect you from the following:
- Decisive Strike
- Pallet saves
- Flashlight saves
- Wiggle-related perks and strategies such as Breakout, Boil Over, Flip-Flop, and Bodyblocking
- Sabotaged hooks
So an Ebony Mori would still be useful, just much less so.
"Okay, I understand the Ebony needed nerfed, but why the Ivory?"
Honestly, the Ivory is just as bad. It encourages Killers to tunnel a Survivor off hook in order to get a kill as quickly as possible, which also can easily screw over the other Survivors for the rest of the game.
The Ivory is also problematic in my opinion, and deserves a change, too.
"So... Moris would just become cinematic kills and wouldn't actually help the Killer win?"
Yeah! Basically. I feel like that's how they should be. Let's allow Moris to make the game more entertaining and have a scarier atmosphere instead of being sweaty try-hard offerings.
That being said, it would be awesome if we could have multiple Moris for the same Killer, as well as purchasable custom Moris.
In conclusion, Moris as of right now are extremely unfun and unfair. I think we could change them to be not just less powerful, but more entertaining.
tl;dr
Keys and Moris are both OP
Nerf Keys by adding an 8 second "Open Hatch" interaction
Nerf Ebony/Ivory Moris to require 2 hooks instead of 1
Let's make the game better! :D
Comments
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this post is way better than mine hope they see this. :)
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Yeah my thread was closed by Rizzo anyways so your my only hope.
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I just read the tldr but:
The point of keys and moris is to shorten things up a little, by adding an 8 second interaction everything stays basically the same, just that survivors can't open the hatch in the face of the killer. This sounds right for me.
But in moris, the survivors are already on their death hook so it doesnt makes much difference. It just saves less than 10 seconds when they carry someone to the hook (sometimes not even that, because the mori animation can take longer than it takes going to a hook).
I'm not saying moris shouldnt be nerfed, but imo this would be a big big nerf.
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A guy in my forum had the ingenious idea of having it as charges like 4 hooks then you can mori anymore it stops tunneling and can be good.
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You're right that Moris really wouldn't do much if Survivors were on their death hook anyways, and you're correct that Moris can often take longer than actually just picking up and hooking a Survivor.
One thing I mentioned in my post is that Moris would still help in certain situations, those being stopping Survivors from using DS or bodyblocking the hook, but even these are somewhat uncommon and pretty situational.
My primary idea is that burning an offering shouldn't grant a huge competitive advantage.
For example: Imagine if Survivors could bring an offering which allowed them to get hooked one additional time. Trying to get 4 hooks on every single Survivor to kill them as Killer would be extremely painful and often times Survivor's would escape before their 4th hook.
This isn't a perfect analogy, but to an extent, that's what Moris are to Survivors. A Survivor burns an offering and becomes considerably harder to kill. The Killer burns an offering and suddenly it becomes a extremely hard to avoid dying.
That's why I think the idea of Moris should be changed to just grant players a cool kill animation instead of giving the Killer an edge at winning.
Maybe there is a way to balance Moris so that they're not completely unfair but still accomplish their goal of increasing the Killer's power, but I haven't thought of one yet.
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i posted this higher above a charges system like 4- 5 hooks mori anybody
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Oh, so like the Killer needs to get 4 hooks before his Mori activates, then he can Mori anybody who has been hooked at least once?
I think it's a decent idea. It wouldn't change anything for Killers who hook all Survivors before starting to Mori, but it would stop the Killer from getting easy early-game momentum with fast kills.
I do think this would be a pretty good compromise for reducing the power of Ebony Moris while also maintaining the terror that they're known for. Definitely a noteworthy idea!
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That's is good idea
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