(UPDATED) Decisive Strike REWORK !
Comments
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Updated main post.
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It's a waste of their time and puts them at a big disadvantage, as they are pressuring the one person that doesn't need it. As DS is now, DS is way too versatile for it's power.
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So your new idea is "saving DS until last hook gives you either a free health state or a full seconds of being unable to be hooked once you are downed no matter what".
Sorry, but no. At this point, that is basically making it so you either all but force DS to proc or force the killer to play horrendously suboptimally to play around it (because not knowing who has DS means that if you don't want to proc it, you have to leave someone on death hook slugged for 60 seconds every time you see the Obsession icon, barring you using Obsession perks/add-ons yourself). A slightly more difficult Skill Check is not close to a fair trade off to that.
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The difficult skill check is a perfect trade-off to make it fair for both parties. It literally takes a quarter off the landing point.
Also what do you mean sub-optimally? Killers are suppose to go after different individuals depending on the scenario unless you're the type to tunnel survivors which is why you're giving a negative response.
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No no no no no to this entire thread. It is finally in a decent place.
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I don't think making it last an infinite amount of time is a good idea, since 60 seconds is already enough for survivors to just play dumb because the know they can DS, plus lockers.
Everything else I agree with.
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I dont really get how this works, you enter the dying state before your first hook
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Devour hope never gets that far, just hide and blood warden does nothing and detectives Hinch makes your entire argument a meme..this whole post has way more attention than it should..this would be seriously abused and make ds the same as it was before..hard pass I'd say
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I do not agree in the slightest. This is a big boost for DS in exchange for a slightly harder difficulty.
I mean that the Killer has to leave every Survivor on death hook slugged for a whole minute to avoid proccing DS because the timer does not start until they are downed, regardless of whether or not you tunnel them. Does that sound remotely reasonable to you?
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Killers wait out DS most of the time anyways so what's the really the difference here?
Just because the timer starts when that survivor is downed on their last hook? People learn from patch notes and take it with them when they queue. Not hard to play a slightly new meta to a asymmetrical game.
The quarter sliced skill-check may not be the best trade-off to some but it certainly beats the current state of DS in which killers wait out timer to then eventually, successfully hook you as their trade-off. You have to understand the struggle for both parties here and if you can't accept a small game change to a perk not everyone is gonna have, then you're at a disadvantage in understanding how survivors work. We already talked about SWF and the premise of that in which all I have to say is predict if they're SWF or git gud.
Most of the men/women in this forum are killers mains trying to keep the current loophole for killers that is DS so they have a fairly broken upper-hand in dead by daylight. Which is really one of the most unbalanced things I've seen. The fact that Decisive Strike doesn't have a defense against killers idling the timer is just absurd. With this new rework, you can still idle the timer like always can but you'll have to do it even longer for the survivor's last hook as it doesn't activate till downed to dying state and you can have this survivor on the ground on their last hook at any time of the game, that being start-game, mid, or end.
That's really the only BIG change and if you think about it, it's not that significant if you take all the other killer perks I mentioned into account to defend against this.
I understand where you're coming from but you can't JUST view this rework as only a disadvantage to your small agenda. Survivors has 4 tasks roughly depending on the survivor while killers have 3.
Survivors should help others (heal, body-block, flashlight save), Do generators, Avoid/Loop killer, and power exit gates and this all will change depending on what killer it is and how they play to help prioritize whats more important.
Killers only have 3 tasks: Hunt Survivors (Chase/Find), Hook them, Kick generators and maybe defend totems which is a different subject for a different thread.
There's not much that killers have to do and this accounts for 4 survivors with all of them a slightly different or drastic play-style. The killer perks you guys have now is pretty fair for this new Decisive Strike rework and I 100% believe you guys will do just fine in the fog.
The rework would only slightly challenge your skills as a killer and in the end, make you a better player. Just because it hinders you a bit more than usual, doesn't make it impossible to secure a kill.
This will be my final conclusion. If killers want to provide their feedback, they may. Just be sure it is a debatable argument with a valid point made that hasn't already been discussed or they'll be ignored. Simp.
turn at this thread for survivor/killer balancing instead:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/115438/why-the-complain/p1
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Basically it's Decisive strike as usual but it makes a timer exception for your last hook if you haven't already used the Decisive strike for the whole trail. When you're unhooked off your last hook, the timer doesn't start until the killer downs you into dying for the last time. THAT is when the 60 seconds starts to almost insure a successful DS unless you miss the harder skill check.
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I agree but infinite is really broken. Just look at main post for my proposal. More balanced in my opinion.
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"Killers wait out DS most of the time anyways so what's the really the difference here?"
The difference is that Killers who don't immediately tunnel the person on death hook are put in a really awful situation if the person has DS. Either they give the person a near-guaranteed extra health state or they make that person unhookable for a solid minute after being downed. That is a HUGE upgrade and close to the previous DS which they moved away from for a good reason.
"Just because the timer starts when that survivor is downed on their last hook?"
Yes, literally just because that. It gives that person a huge timer boost for NOT being tunneled, which is the opposite of what the devs want with this game.
"People learn from patch notes and take it with them when they queue. Not hard to play a slightly new meta to a asymmetrical game."
Tell me how the Killer adapts without having to start bringing in OP Moris. The one idea you suggested, trying to slug all 4 players before everyone is on death hook, both punishes the Killer emblem badly and gets annihilated by Unbreakable.
"The quarter sliced skill-check may not be the best trade-off to some but it certainly beats the current state of DS in which killers wait out timer to then eventually, successfully hook you as their trade-off."
The Killer is not even favored in the situation you are describing unless the timer is close to running out when downed. The Killer would still have to give Survivors a chance to pick up their fallen mate. Your idea raises the chances of that by an immense amount, bringing the perk WAY closer to the free health state the perk is NOT supposed to be.
"Most of the men/women in this forum are killers mains trying to keep the current loophole for killers that is DS so they have a fairly broken upper-hand in dead by daylight."
And you're trying to turn DS into an overpowered and undisputed strongest perk in the entire game, bar none. Your idea punishes the Killer hardcore for not wanting to proc DS. That is very bad. At least with old DS, only one person had that luxury. Here, EVERY survivor with DS gets that potential benefit.
"The fact that Decisive Strike doesn't have a defense against killers idling the timer is just absurd."
That is BY DESIGN. So that Survivors do not get a free health state. They changed the old DS for this exact reason. Are you suggesting that the Killer has to play into DS every time someone brings it in?
"That's really the only BIG change and if you think about it, it's not that significant if you take all the other killer perks I mentioned into account to defend against this."
No. It is insanely significant. The only thing that meaningfully defends against it is a Mori.
"The rework would only slightly challenge your skills as a killer and in the end, make you a better player. Just because it hinders you a bit more than usual, doesn't make it impossible to secure a kill."
I do not agree at all. It gives a massive boost to a Survivor who holds on to it that makes it either an extra health state or an extra hook state. That is horridly unbalanced.
I'll put it to you like this. If you can convince me that having to leave someone on the floor for a solid minute after downing them no matter how long it took for them to go down to avoid giving them a free health state is a reasonable thing, I will wholeheartedly stand behind your idea.
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I don't have to convince anyone but survivors. Killers are never gonna like this new build of Decisive Strike because it hinders them which is the point for almost every survivor perk.
Also I may add, a solid minute isn't so bad considering you aren't just standing there watching the downed survivor. Also I should mention that the timer would run out if the survivor got healed into a injured state. YOU can get a couple things done until then. It barely takes a minute to heal someone into a injured state not including med-kits.
With all things considered, this does technically give someone a 'free health state' with the exception they land the skill-check.
A couple of scenarios I can see this being problematic for KILLERS:
- Survivor keeps last DS to clutch end-game hatch escape.
- SWF survivors use it to get time to finish last couple gens or power exit gates.
- Use it alongside Jane's head-on perk then use it to force DS from locker. (which should be patched. don't like forcing DS from locker.)
Scenarios to benefit survivors:
- Insidious basement face-camper to escape.
- Looping killer almost whole game on last hook to get sweet DS to then escape.
- Killer purposely avoids you until timer runs in fear of DS, crawl to safety to get picked up.
The proposal is final until further notice. Maybe if someone want's to put their 2 cents in to make it operate the same but with less controversy amongst killer mains but the way I see it, that's how it will always be. Survivors complain about everything too but that's just the way it is.
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"I don't have to convince anyone but survivors. Killers are never gonna like this new build of Decisive Strike because it hinders them which is the point for almost every survivor perk."
Everyone's input matters, not just the input of the side you are trying to buff.
"Also I may add, a solid minute isn't so bad considering you aren't just standing there watching the downed survivor."
If you aren't just standing there watching the new Survivor, you are freely allowing the downed Survivor to be picked back up, which effectively makes DS a fourth hook state. The current DS allows you to circumvent the slugging by not tunneling the unhooked Survivor; this has absolutely no workaround to that except for actively triggering DS.
"With all things considered, this does technically give someone a 'free health state' with the exception they land the skill-check."
This is why Mettle of Man was changed. This is why DS was changed. This is enough to show that this is a bad idea.
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DS needs more counter play options i.e Enduring, Juggling & the obsession is the only one that can use it to its full potential.
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