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"Hook someone else to deactivate DS" - I don't think this is a good idea. Here is why.
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Dude I know how lunge and grabs work. It's not hard at all to lunge instead of grab. If he just swung earlier he would have avoided it.
And stop bringing up this "you're not getting tunneled if" nonsense. It might be the intended purpose, but that doesn't mean it has to be the ONLY purpose. Chainsaw might be intended to be used to instadown a survivor, but that doesn't mean Billy can't also use it to get around the map faster. This is such a weak argument, there is such a thing as alternative uses.
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It's not the definition. It's your definition.
"You manipulate and manufacturer your own definitions for things to serve you; and you go out of your way to defend scummy plays at any cost."
The irony here is immense.
"Please, go play more killer, than I'll continue to acknowledge you."
LOL so playing killer at rank 1 for over a year is not enough? Sure pal.
"There's no sense debating with someone with a one-sided mindset who doesn't know what tunneling, or balance is"
Even more ironic than before.
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Except the definition I stated (which is the correct definition) doesn't serve me. It's actually a pretty neutral to both sides. I'm not the one trying to twist it to suit my agenda. Keep trying, chief. I'll shoot you down every time. You can not win this debate. It's literally impossible for you to come out on top here. No matter how long, mocking or otherwise one-sided your reply will inevitably be. It's literally out of the realm of possibility for you to be right about this, based on your previous comments alone. The devs describe the perks purpose, specifically, as anti tunnel. That's it's intended use. That's where your argument is destroyed. You lack the logical ground to stand on.
😎
EDIT: I'm a survivor main. 80% of my hours are survivor. That doesn't make me blind to balance.
mic drop
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It does serve you because you want to nerf DS according to that definition, which is impossible to do anyway.
Also are you saying you don't play enough killer to have an opinion? More irony.
I'm also a survivor main. Rank 1. So tell me what makes me "blind" to balance LOL.
Fact remains, a killer can play around DS. I do it all the time. I see other killers do it when I'm survivor. It's not that hard.
So then gutting a perk to have such strict conditions that any brain dead killer can ignore it completely is good design? It's MOM all over again.
Just don't take the bait. I don't know how much more simply I can state this. Slug the survivor. Eat the DS if it is earlier enough. You can play around it. Stop acting like you are completely helpless, you are not.
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First off doing one half of the objective is not completing the objective.
Secondly the gates being powered up is the reward for fixing the 5 generators. You do not have the right to an escape until you leave.
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If it's an anti tunnel perk, how is it being gutted by making it only come into play if you're being tunneled? That's it's intended purpose. Would your ability to "outplay" (skillcheck KEK) the killer be hindered if you couldn't throw yourself at him to make him "tunnel" you?
I have nearly 3500 hours in game. 20% of that being killer is far more than you have. Try again, chief.
A killer should NOT have to play around DS if the survivor is throwing themselves at the killer. If you are going out of your way to take a hit (such as a protection hit), you should be forfeiting your DS. It will happen eventually; and then players who abuse it will end up at green ranks, where they belong, because they can't "outplay" the killer with a skillcheck anymore.
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Excuse me but I think your survivor bias is showing.
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I have 3k hours so LOL at you trying to flex on me with any kind of experience.
"If it's an anti tunnel perk, how is it being gutted by making it only come into play if you're being tunneled?"
Because regardless of how you have the game even calculate this, a killer can exploit it. Or you, as survivor, get robbed of your perk for something another survivor did that was out of your control.
Also it's not explicitly an anti-tunnel perk. Stop using this argument. It's main purpose may be such, but that doesn't mean it can't have alternative uses. See my Billy chainsaw point.
"A killer should NOT have to play around DS if the survivor is throwing themselves at the killer."
Yes they should. In fact if a survivor is doing this it's like a dead giveaway that they are doing it because of DS. Don't take the bait. It's really not that hard. If you do it's your own fault for getting hit with DS.
Case and point, I played against some friends maybe a month ago as Huntress. They didn't know it was me because I was playing on an alternate account (which BTW is also red rank killer). One friend unhooks another right in my face and they both kind of run together into Ormond house. I chase them both, really only going for the one that saved, and the one that got saved jumped into a locker. So I reload at the locker next to her and continue to chase my other friend. I ended up letting them go because we are friends, but I could have won the game if I wanted to. She screamed at me for not letting her DS me out of the locker, so when I got her in another game the next day I made sure to tunnel her super hard so she could DS me for LOLs (still let her go again). Point being, she jumped in a locker A CLEAR AND OBVIOUS SIGN OF DS, so I just left her in there and chased someone else. Had I been playing to kill them all I would have do it without even needing to care about DS at all.
If you take the bait, it's your fault. PERIOD.
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Feel like I've been countering Huntress all wrong then, because I always go for the "take hatchets to the face" approach, lol.
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I agree with you here. This killer was baited and he was punished for it. But hitting the unhooking survivor is not a reliable solution. The meat shield hitbox are too big.
There have been quite a number of times I've stood behind the unhooker hit him only for both survivors to run off unharmed.
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Are you still talking? Just saying the same stuff over and over again. You're still wrong. If it's anti tunnel, you should have no issue with it only be for anti tunnel. But no, you need your crutch. :)
Post edited by Gcarrara on0 -
Everybody does remember that this perk is literally a one time use per match right and thats if you hit it.. While killers have oneshots, amongst aura reveals and other unneeded help for the entire match lol. Its funny to see how worked up people get over a once per match use thing. Play better you killer crybabies.
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Alot of the strongest stuff in the game is "once per match". If I mori you once per match, thats still gonna sting. If someone uses a key to get out, but only does so once per match instead of twice...
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Nope, which is why its not plan A
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I agree with DS being de-activated when the killer hooks another survivor, or has been in chase with another survivor for x amount of time. The point of the perk was the deny tunneling, but in higher level play it's just a means for survivors to get away from making a mistake, and in higher levels when survivors rarely make mistakes - it becomes impossible for a killer to even black pip when every survivor has 4+ game mechanics that allow them to ignore their mistakes.
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Killers dont want to understand this.
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Yeah, but a killer shouldn’t just be able to kill a survivor as soon as they get unhook.
Good survivors who does that usually always end up with short chase time, especially if the killer is a Ghost face or wraith. This would just lead to matches with killers such as wraith or m1 to be a lot easy and efficient to win. So even good survivors know that if they are injured and doing gens, they will suffer short chase time.
Ruin is also always coming into to play because even if the survivor cleanse the totem, it is preventing them from doing gen (and if the killer uses other slow down perk build such as thrill of the hunt it is unlucky for that to happen immediately). Another thing is that even if a survivor hits the skill check (which is unlucky that they always will) it doesn’t increase the hen progress. Usually when a survivor hits a skill check, the gen speed increases and if they hit a good skill check it last longer. With ruin, it prevents any of that from happening so it is still slowing down the time it takes for a surivior doing gens.
That’s untrue because the last time the devs release a graph of perks used often, self care was one of the top perks. It is also rated highly for most experienced players as well.
I think sloppy adds more than 4 seconds, but let’s say it does. What if the killer uses other perks to slow down healing and gens as well? A lot of time can be consumed with ds.
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It would be useless because you could counter it without even trying. MOM needed a nerf but it doesn't change the fact they gutted the perk to basically F tier. You wanna talk about S tier not being balanced, well neither is F tier. Point is DS has counter play NOW, very fair and balanced counter play. Slug them. Simple as that. Or eat the DS early in the game so it's not a problem later. It's really not that hard to do.
And yes slugging generates a ton of pressure. Equal to a hook most of the time. Again just watch Scott's Bubba speed limiter 4k spree. He slugs like crazy and wins games purely because of it.
This is a different issue, but still you can hit down the rescuer pretty consistently. Sometimes the game screws you with janky hitboxes, but 99% of the time you will just down the rescuer. Whenever it gets fixed this wouldn't even be a talking point.
The Spirit in the video provided could have simply hit down the Steve instead of grabbing him. Grabbing was the absolute WORSE decision to make. If he just hit him, that's 1 survivor down and 1 in a chase that's gonna end in 15 seconds pretty much guaranteed because he's Spirit and literally right on top of the guy at the start of the chase. He just needs to wait out BT.
I actually don't even use DS dude. If you really have this much of a problem with DS sorry to say you can't be that good of a killer. It is very easy to play around.
Post edited by Gcarrara on1 -
So persistent on making excuses for it, and going against what the devs have said (that it's intended function is anti-tunnel)...but doesn't use it. Surrrre there bud. We all believe you.
Hey, I get it. You need your free escape, and that's okay. You lost the debate long ago when you called it a "good play" to parade around the killer in superman mode because you're invulnerable. It's not a good play. You're hitting a skill check. It's not a play, and you're not outplaying anyone. Survivors like you are the same ones who complain about being left on the ground and slugged, but you'll make up all the excuses in the world for DS. "Must not be a good killer". OOF. There's killer mains out there who you both run circles around you in survivor AND killer, who have issues with DS existing. Are you saying Marth isn't good? Otz isn't good? Tru3 isn't good? Monto? Edgar?
Yeah, all top tier killers, must all be bad. No, the truth is, it's survivors who rely on DS that aren't that good at the game.
Just stop. You don't have a logical platform to stand on.
You will never win this debate. It's a logical impossibility.
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Well I'm not the one complaining about a perk that has easy counter play. Or the one that doesn't seem to understand the concept of alternative uses.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Plus like I said I don't even use DS.
Maybe instead of ad hominems you should try presenting actual arguments.
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Slugging is not a counter play. It does not stop it. It only postpones it; and if the exit gates are opened, you can't even slug. They'll just crawl out the door. "Counter play". That's like saying "Counterplay to Clown is to drop the pallet early!". No. Just no. Smart move avoiding calling some of the best killer mains in the community bad for believing what I believe. I wouldn't go there either if I were you. Your argument is so outrageous that it's put me and @Sairek on the same page; and me and that guy don't agree on anything.
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Also - ad hominem doesn't mean what you think it means.
"an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made"
I haven't personally attacked you once; and no, telling you you're wrong repeatedly, and why, is not an attack. I'm very careful with my words. I've stayed on topic, not made any insults, threats or otherwise anything that could even be considered an attack. So don't go playing the victim card.
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1) Slugging very much is counter play. When you slug you generate pressure similar to a hook. You avoid getting DS'd and resetting said pressure by having a survivor running around freely. Again Scott's Bubba speed limiter 4k spree he slugs like crazy and wins a lot of those games because of it.
2) Questioning how much I play killer or saying that I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't play killer or whatever is very much ad hominem.
3) There is nothing outrageous about my argument. My argument is that you can play around DS just fine and it doesn't need to be changed. Your argument is that you can't play around DS (which is false) and needs to be gutted to be so circumstantial to be pretty much worthless. You can tell me whatever else you want until you are blue in the face, but that's what it is.
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- No, it's not. Cause that person can be gotten up with no penalty in a matter of seconds. Your argument is invalid.
- Questioning what you say is an attack now. Okay then, chief. OOF. 🙄 Thanks for confirming my suspicions about you.
- Yes, everything you've said is outrageous. Seriously, man. Just stop. You tossed the debate out the window when you refered to running into the killer and abusing the fact that you're invincible with DS a "good play", and having the gall to defend it like you're outplaying the killer in any way by hitting a god skill check. All that it really does is expose how broken the perk is for the game. You've even gone on to say killers who have that much of a problem with DS must not be good, when all the best killers who play the game (Marth, Tru3, Otz, Zubat etc) have the beliefs that I do. You still didn't address that, smart move on your part glossing over that. I wouldn't go down that rabbit hole either.
Give up, dude. Keep on keeping on with your DS, while you still can. You can say you don't use it all you want, I don't believe it for a second (there's that ad hominem attack again, cause how dare I question you).
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I love the DS threads ♥️
DS is absolutely fine as it is. There is not a single issue with it, in any form at all. The ONLY people complaining, are the trash killers. Have you guys read some of the scenarios they come up with to prove they didn't tunnel? It's completely laughable.
DS adds an extra 15 seconds to a chase against a good killer that gets hit with it, but good killers rarely get hit with DS anyway, because they're already chasing down another survivor or applying map pressure elsewhere to keep more survivors off gens (that's right trash campers and tunnellers, the unhooked, the unhooker and your new target leaves one person on a gen as opposed to the upto 3 people on gens that your baby play style gives survivors, then you cry about gen rush, which only happens to same trash killers anyway)
This current form of DS is significantly better than the old one, maybe you guys would like a week of old style DS, just so you can see the difference and how much is was nurfed (and it needed it)
Personally, I think DS should only work on your last hook anyway, it should be your last chance to escape the killer before your death. No cooldowns or timers, just activates once you're picked up for your last hook.
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Yes, only trash killers complain about it.
Marth, Tru3, Otz, Zubat, Ardetha...all of them. Yep, they are all trash. /s
That's a survivor bias, for ya.
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LOL dude I keep telling you I don't even use DS. Stop assuming things you can't prove.
They don't get up "in a matter of seconds". It takes 16 seconds to heal them, and 32 seconds to heal themselves. The former is extended if you have anti-heal perks such as Sloppy. The only way they get up fast is if they have Unbreakable or two survivors heal them, at which point you have 3 survivors not doing gens. So yea that's a lot of pressure. Still haven't even acknowledged the Bubba speed limiter run where he slugs for a 4k pretty much every game because it's super effective. Selective reading at its best.
You never questioned my arguments you question my experience in the game and my skill. So yea, ad hominem.
If you bait the killer to pick you up or grab you, that is an outplay because the killer didn't have to do that. If the killer falls for that bait it's their own fault. It's not the fault of the perk or the player for trying to maximize their perk. Survivors with DS make ballsy plays that are super obvious DS plays. Maybe don't fall for obvious tricks?
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"Hitting a DS skill check is an out play".
Thanks - that's all I needed to hear.
K-E-K.
OOF, survivor mains. They never cease to amaze me. They say the darnedest things.
(great job avoiding the bad killer argument again - thanks for handing me the victory, bro)
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No, baiting the killer to grab you/pick you up is the outplay.
LOL
Where did I ever say this? Stop twisting my argument to fit your narrative.
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But let's talk about all those killers that are bad for believing the same thing I do? Let's talk about that, which you, once again, ignored. You know, all those killers, who believe the same thing I do in regards to DS, that you said must not be very good killers. The most highly regarded killers in the community. Enlighten us! Let's talk about how bad you think they are! Or, just keep avoiding it and put your foot back in your mouth on that one.
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Can we please keep the tones down? No need to get personal over opinions, even if it's a hot topic. 🙂
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I'm with ya there, bud.
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"All these people believe the Earth is flat just like me. Therefore the Earth is flat."
I'm sure you see why this isn't a real argument, and why I'm not even bothering to waste my time arguing it.
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I play both sides, rank 1....anyhoo
Yes, just because they're popular content creators, doesn't mean they're god's gift to DBD. I have seen them all camp, tunnel and play like trash to win.
I am willing to bet, I take less DS hits than any killer in the game. The most times it happens, is the rare times I get to end game collapse or if a survivor manages to unhook themselves when they're the last survivor to be hooked, while other survivors are on hook. Sometimes I will be hit with it because players wear similar outfits and I get confused. But I don't get hit with it anywhere near as much as I did before they changed it.
Just to add, DS is NOT just an anti tunnel perk, it's a perk to be used however the user wishes to, be it aggressively or defensively. Honestly, if you're getting hit with DS in lots of matches, then check your gameplay, I am not even sure i have been hit with DS so far this year, but players have definitely been running it.
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I just have to say that you shouldn't be talking about logical platforms and invalid arguements when you've constantly thrown out assumptions and discarded them whenever they turned out to be untrue, until you're down to "you need your crutch" and clinging to your appeal to authority.
Please stop being so concerned with proving people's opinions "invalid" or finding a reason to make it justified to disregard their opinion. You're not talking to flat earthers, you're talking to people that disagree with you about a perk in DBD.
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You:
If you really have this much of a problem with DS sorry to say you can't be that good of a killer.
Your little metaphorical excerpt is backwards. It's not me claiming that it's true because they are on my side. It's you saying I'm bad for believing these things. So, I repeat. Would you like to elaborate on how you came to the conclusion that because I have these beliefs about DS, I must not be a good killer? Cause the people I listed believe the exact same thing I do on the subject of DS. By association, because you consider me bad for having that belief (which is literally what you said in so many words), you must consider them bad too.
I would like you to elaborate on that instead of hiding from it for the 10th time. I'm genuinely interested in how you retract or try to explain that one away instead of relying on a metaphorical phrase that does not pertain to the claim you made. Address it, or stop. By saying that about me, you're discrediting ALL of them. ALL of those people who have helped shape DBD and help make almost everything good that has happened to the game a reality.
Unlike him - it's not his beliefs I take issue with on DS. It's his notion that somehow, hitting a DS skillcheck is "outplaying" anyone. It's not. That's the biggest issue I have.
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#FACTS
Except I never once said "hitting a skill check is outplaying someone". I even explicitly state what IS the outplay, and that is baiting the killer to grab you/pick you up.
As for the first part, I question it because you can easily play around DS as killer. I do it all the time. I see other killers do it all the time. All at rank 1. So if you have THAT much of a problem with DS, it has to be because either you aren't very good at killer and get baited into DS all the time, or you tunnel a lot. Because any good killer knows how to play around it. They can still get frustrated with it, but it doesn't change the fact they regularly counter play the perk. Like I get frustrated when I play against a killer with NOED, but I'm not going to demand changes to NOED when I consistently destroy all the totems on the map.
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Okay. I agree with changes to DS but not making tunneling a bannable offense.
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And again, you glossed over the main point. Well done.
I'll take that victory. 🤗
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Good Survivor's who do that usually win.
You can see GhostFace and Wraith coming, you can get to a pallet. You have Dead Hard.
Self-Care may be used a lot, but it isn't a good perk. Make a post asking if it is. Make a poll, I challenge you.
Good Survivors who hit Ruin, if they have a friend, one gen will take 44 seconds. A single gen will take 80. It is the normal time. They do waste time looking for it, but they could also spawn right in front of it. It just depends.
Sloppy does add 4 seconds to regular healing, it adds way more to Self-Care since SC heals at 50% the normal speed.
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The whole, I'm better than everyone else attitude is kinda sickening.
I'm not even debating on whether or not you are, but, jeez, pompous much.
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So you're saying, that in 6 days, it would be completely reasonable to not be hit with DS? Kinda kills some of the idea of it's detriment to main game play....
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I disagree with that too, mainly because there are times where you have the killer immediately near the hook after you're unhooked and the only thing near you is a generator for you to rush to start working on so they're forced to grab you. Also DS doesn't really do much unless it's in the end game, honestly. You can get that survivor pretty much every time because you're usually taking them to a hook that has pallets broken near it, so 5 seconds isn't enough time for them to get to safety.
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Oh, you and him are the posting drivel duo. Got it 👍
I don't think I am great, it's something I know 🥇
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Insta down hatchets are fine, it's hatchet hit boxes that are the real issue! But that's another thread
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I mean, these guys defend DS and call it "outplaying" the killer. What do you expect? Civility?
KEK.
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