Hex perks are not powerful enough for their drawbacks
Hex perks are supposed to be high risk, high reward, but the fact is, they're too weak to be worth it. I think the following adjustments might make it worth it to use a perk that the Survivors can shut down 15 seconds into the trial.
Hex: Devour Hope
Bring the token requirements down by 1, across the board. In other words, it takes one token for the Killer to get that speed boost, 2 tokens to get double damage on a hit, and 4 tokens to be able to kill Survivors.
Alternatively, tokens aren't lost when the totem is cleansed.
Hex: Huntress Lullaby
1-2 tokens: Time between the Skill Check warning sound and the Skill Check becomes shorter.
3 tokens: No Skill Check warning.
Hex: No One Escapes Death
Give tier 2 the double damage, and tier 3 automatically repairs a random broken totem to place itself upon.
Hex: Ruin
Have it affect all four Survivors starting from tier 1 and increase the regression from Good Skill Checks with each tier. Tier 1 would be 5%, 2 would be 7,5%, and 3 would be 10%.
Hex: The Third Seal
Make it affect all four Survivors from tier 1. At tier 3, the Survivors who are hit are also hidden from others' aura reading perks.
Hex: Thrill Of The Hunt
Drastically increase the cleansing speed reduction. Make it 10% at tier 1, with 5% increments on each tier. 14,5 seconds (the time it takes to cleanse a totem) with a 10% speed reduction is literally just 1 more second. Even at 5 tokens, the cleansing time is 20 seconds, which is a ridiculously small increase from the default. With 20% at tier 3 and 5 tokens, it'd be 29 seconds, which is an acceptable time given how big the maps are and how much time the Killer has to waste defending totems.
Alternatively, increase the default cleansing time to 20 seconds.
Comments
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@Orion said:
Hex: Devour Hope
Bring the token requirements down by 1, across the board. In other words, it takes one token for the Killer to get that speed boost, 2 tokens to get double damage on a hit, and 4 tokens to be able to kill Survivors.
Alternatively, tokens aren't lost when the totem is cleansed.If by "tokens aren't lost" you mean that you can still use the effects of devour hope but not gain more tokens. Then no. That would mean that when every match begins survivors almost have to find all the totems before 3 survivors are hooked. Getting permanent Exposed is already pretty powerful on myers just imagine it on other killers like nurse.
@Orion said:
Hex: No One Escapes Death
Give tier 2 the double damage, and tier 3 automatically repairs a random broken totem to place itself upon.
Currently the only counter to NOED is cleansing all totems which gives Small game another use than a counter to trap killers. If a totem repaired itself it would make it a waste of time to cleanse any since it would just repair a totem and bind itself to that one.
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@PolarBear said:
@Orion said:
Hex: Devour Hope
Bring the token requirements down by 1, across the board. In other words, it takes one token for the Killer to get that speed boost, 2 tokens to get double damage on a hit, and 4 tokens to be able to kill Survivors.
Alternatively, tokens aren't lost when the totem is cleansed.If by "tokens aren't lost" you mean that you can still use the effects of devour hope but not gain more tokens. Then no. That would mean that when every match begins survivors almost have to find all the totems before 3 survivors are hooked. Getting permanent Exposed is already pretty powerful on myers just imagine it on other killers like nurse.
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Keep in mind, though, it's only an alternative to what I believe to be a much better suggestion. Furthermore, that's the point of Devour Hope: you have to choose between saving others and buffing the Killer, or saving yourself and letting them die. It's written right into the perk's flavor text:
"If you do nothing, you have their blood on your hands. If you save them, her hunger grows."@PolarBear said:
@Orion said:
Hex: No One Escapes Death
Give tier 2 the double damage, and tier 3 automatically repairs a random broken totem to place itself upon.
Currently the only counter to NOED is cleansing all totems which gives Small game another use than a counter to trap killers. If a totem repaired itself it would make it a waste of time to cleanse any since it would just repair a totem and bind itself to that one.
I get it, but the problem is exactly that - NOED can be disabled before it even triggers. No other perk has that kind of weakness. My change would make it so Survivors would have to memorize where the dull totems were. That's all.
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That is way too overpowered and not in the slightest bit balanced.
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- i am not a fan of the first idea, but the one where it locks the tokens in place is nice. i mean, most of the time it just goes down before you can even get these tokens, so i think its goood that way.
- that way it would actually hacve an effect on the game
- i agree that other tiers should have the oneshot too, but i think NOED shouldnt be a totem perk in general...
- sounds good.
- wont really make the perk stronger, but it would be a nice QoL change
- i agree on that one 100%.
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Devour Hope: I agree with the reduced tokens as both a survivor/killer main. However I don't like the alternative idea, sorry!Orion said:Hex: Devour Hope
Bring the token requirements down by 1, across the board. In other words, it takes one token for the Killer to get that speed boost, 2 tokens to get double damage on a hit, and 4 tokens to be able to kill Survivors.
Hex: Huntress Lullaby
1-2 tokens: Time between the Skill Check warning sound and the Skill Check becomes shorter.
3 tokens: No Skill Check warning.Hex: No One Escapes Death
Give tier 2 the double damage, and tier 3 automatically repairs a random broken totem to place itself upon.
Hex: Ruin
Have it affect all four Survivors starting from tier 1 and increase the regression from Good Skill Checks with each tier. Tier 1 would be 5%, 2 would be 7,5%, and 3 would be 10%.
Hex: The Third Seal
Make it affect all four Survivors from tier 1. At tier 3, the Survivors who are hit are also hidden from others' aura reading perks.
Hex: Thrill Of The Hunt
Drastically increase the cleansing speed reduction. Make it 10% at tier 1, with 5% increments on each tier. 14,5 seconds (the time it takes to cleanse a totem) with a 10% speed reduction is literally just 1 more second. Even at 5 tokens, the cleansing time is 20 seconds, which is a ridiculously small increase from the default. With 20% at tier 3 and 5 tokens, it'd be 29 seconds, which is an acceptable time given how big the maps are and how much time the Killer has to waste defending totems.
Alternatively, increase the default cleansing time to 20 seconds.
Huntress Lullaby: I like your idea, however I think Huntress Lullaby should just be a regular perk IMO.
NOED: Hmm, I have mixed feelings on this... Maybe this should be tested on the PTB.
Ruin: I like your idea, it's basically better at tiers I, II, and III. However I wanna hear your opinion on maybe a better solution to the Ruin perk that I came up with...
Ruin:
A Hex that affects the survivors' skills at repairing generators. All survivors are affected by Ruin which causes a 30/40/50% decrease in repair speed. Additionally while Ruin is active, all great success zones will be replaced by good success zones.
The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex Totem is standing.
Usually games are 5 minutes long, Ruin will now increase this to around 7:30 minutes. This will be a nerf maybe but when the developers rework generators, then they will likely rework Ruin next.
Third Seal: I was thinking that the blindness status effect should be buffed in general. Maybe blindness removes the survivors' ability to hear the killer's terror radius?
TOTH: Same thing with Huntress Lullaby, it should just be a normal perk and not a Hex perk.1 -
@Nickenzie said:
Devour Hope: I agree with the reduced tokens as both a survivor/killer main. However I don't like the alternative idea, sorry!I, too, believe the alternate idea is worse than the first one.
@Nickenzie said:
Huntress Lullaby: I like your idea, however I think Huntress Lullaby should just be a regular perk IMO.True, but this is assuming every perk stays as a Hex perk.
@Nickenzie said:
NOED: Hmm, I have mixed feelings on this... Maybe this should be tested on the PTB.Naturally. All these changes should be tested on the PTB.
@Nickenzie said:
Ruin: I like your idea, it's basically better at tiers I, II, and III. However I wanna hear your opinion on maybe a better solution to the Ruin perk that I came up with...Ruin:
A Hex that affects the survivors' skills at repairing generators. All survivors are affected by Ruin which causes a 30/40/50% decrease in repair speed. Additionally while Ruin is active, all great success zones will be replaced by good success zones.
The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex Totem is standing.Usually games are 5 minutes long, Ruin will now increase this to around 7:30 minutes. This will be a nerf maybe but when the developers rework generators, then they will likely rework Ruin next.
As it is now, Ruin synergizes well with perks that increase the number of skill checks. Your idea, while good, would remove that synergy.
@Nickenzie said:
Third Seal: I was thinking that the blindness status effect should be buffed in general. Maybe blindness removes the survivors' ability to hear the killer's terror radius?Or Blindness actually makes the screen harder to see.
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@Orion Also keep in mind that the reduced skillcheck sound isn't the only benefit of Huntress Lullaby, it also has the increased regression 2%/4%/6% when failing a skillcheck so having the no skillcheck sound at 3 tokens can become very powerful in certain maps that make it difficult to find totems.
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On a third seal: How about it makes survivors unable to see any auras: Hooked survivor included and they can't see the changes in the lower left corner so health states but they still can hear survivors screaming when hooked.
That would make it powerful perk that is worth a hex.0 -
and this ladies and gentlemen is why we let the dev team work on balance. LOL
We can suggest cool things and they might take it on board but self repairing noed? jesus.2 -
@Orion said:
@Nickenzie said:
Devour Hope: I agree with the reduced tokens as both a survivor/killer main. However I don't like the alternative idea, sorry!I, too, believe the alternate idea is worse than the first one.
Reduced tokens is a bad idea since at lower ranks you're going to destroy everyone. Far better way is to keep tokens after x time has elapsed if the totem is destroyed with the exception of insta kill. But keeping tokens after totem is destroyed could work say depending on token count/time.
@Nickenzie said:
Huntress Lullaby: I like your idea, however I think Huntress Lullaby should just be a regular perk IMO.True, but this is assuming every perk stays as a Hex perk.
They might still change some perks to non hex to give some more gameplay choices. for some you could change the hex to a normal perk for the killer it belongs to. Devour and NOED being the exceptions. But for say Lullaby if Huntress uses it it's a perk. If other killers use it it's a Hex perk. You'd buff huntress some in that case without it being too op.
@Nickenzie said:
NOED: Hmm, I have mixed feelings on this... Maybe this should be tested on the PTB.Naturally. All these changes should be tested on the PTB.
Noed will have to be really careful with since even at high ranks there's totems that're hard to find and or you get a high mobility killer like Billy/Nurse on certain maps. At low ranks it'll be a massacre.
@Nickenzie said:
Ruin: I like your idea, it's basically better at tiers I, II, and III. However I wanna hear your opinion on maybe a better solution to the Ruin perk that I came up with...Ruin:
A Hex that affects the survivors' skills at repairing generators. All survivors are affected by Ruin which causes a 30/40/50% decrease in repair speed. Additionally while Ruin is active, all great success zones will be replaced by good success zones.
The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex Totem is standing.I posted something similar but with a twist in another thread. The 2 might be good in combination and I added that even after the totem is destroyed an effect. It works that if Ruin is active and is then cleansed if the survivor was affected by Ruin they still get the effect. At least until their next skill check after that it's normal.
Usually games are 5 minutes long, Ruin will now increase this to around 7:30 minutes. This will be a nerf maybe but when the developers rework generators, then they will likely rework Ruin next.
As it is now, Ruin synergizes well with perks that increase the number of skill checks. Your idea, while good, would remove that synergy.
Go check my thread for a gen idea since it gives the killer options besides having to run Ruin but in conjunction with it is good.
@Nickenzie said:
Third Seal: I was thinking that the blindness status effect should be buffed in general. Maybe blindness removes the survivors' ability to hear the killer's terror radius?Or Blindness actually makes the screen harder to see.
**Blindness won't affect you're hearing of the killers heartbeat but perhaps you don't see them as clearly in the distance.
Making the screen harder to see would cause issues for those with vision problems or motion sickness issues etc. One person commented in another thread that they don't play killer because Bloodlust activating gives them motion sickness.**
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@SenzuDuck said:
and this ladies and gentlemen is why we let the dev team work on balance. LOL
We can suggest cool things and they might take it on board but self repairing noed? jesus.Do you have any specific complaints? If so, say them.
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@Orion said:
@SenzuDuck said:
and this ladies and gentlemen is why we let the dev team work on balance. LOL
We can suggest cool things and they might take it on board but self repairing noed? jesus.Do you have any specific complaints? If so, say them.
"self repairing noed"
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I think the biggest problem with hex totems, is the activation. Noed is the strongest cause it has a trigger and an element of suprise. Like Ruin shouldn't activate until survivors start working a gen, Lullaby and Devour wont trigger until a survivor is hooked, thrill of the hunt ability will be active but the hex totem wont spawn until a totem has been cleansed.
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Make Ruin have a 100% failed reduction it wouldn't matter. Too many people "gen tap" or spawn next to the totem.
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That's why Ruin should have a 30/40/50% repair penalty to all survivors instead of hex skill checks.MegaWaffle said:Make Ruin have a 100% failed reduction it wouldn't matter. Too many people "gen tap" or spawn next to the totem.
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@Orion said:
Hex: Devour Hope
Bring the token requirements down by 1 ...
Alternatively, tokens aren't lost when the totem is cleansed.What if one token of Hex: Devour Hope is lost when the totem is cleansed while the rest are kept? This would prevent the killer from being able to mori for the rest of the trial even if they had 5 tokens before the hex was cleansed.
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No. I think I play killer more than survivor, but this it honestly a terrible idea. I think some balancing to totem placement is in order, and that would "fix" the issue. I'm not 100% opposed to the idea of a destroyed hex perk, having some small use if you managed to get max tokens or something, but a re-balance to totem placement, is what i would hope for.
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Survivors would disagree I guess^^0
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@Nickenzie said:
MegaWaffle said:Make Ruin have a 100% failed reduction it wouldn't matter. Too many people "gen tap" or spawn next to the totem.
That's why Ruin should have a 30/40/50% repair penalty to all survivors instead of hex skill checks.
The problem with a 50% (I understand these are simply numbers pulled without tests) is it would punish people who do try to work through Ruin properly. I just go for the skill checks and ignore Ruin myself but with 50% reduction I'd go spend the 10-30 seconds to find the totem.
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@Master said:
Survivors would disagree I guess^^Because you'd have to be stupid to think NOED that coming back even if all totems that are done would be fun for any survivor.
Killer could pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted, and then still have an insta down perk at the end even if the survivors did their job and got all the totems.duhhh survivor are such gen rushers, but if they do all the totems I'll still complain and get my noed. lol no.
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@SenzuDuck said:
@Orion said:
@SenzuDuck said:
and this ladies and gentlemen is why we let the dev team work on balance. LOL
We can suggest cool things and they might take it on board but self repairing noed? jesus.Do you have any specific complaints? If so, say them.
"self repairing noed"
And your reasoning is...?
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@Orion said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@Orion said:
@SenzuDuck said:
and this ladies and gentlemen is why we let the dev team work on balance. LOL
We can suggest cool things and they might take it on board but self repairing noed? jesus.Do you have any specific complaints? If so, say them.
"self repairing noed"
And your reasoning is...?
"Wow, survivor are such gen rushe.... oh... they did all the totems as well? Doesn't matter - I'll get NOED anyway for being an exceptionally bad killer".
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@Orion said:
Hex: Ruin
Have it affect all four Survivors starting from tier 1 and increase the regression from Good Skill Checks with each tier. Tier 1 would be 5%, 2 would be 7,5%, and 3 would be 10%.
The problem with that is that good Survivors can still hit the Great skill check even when Ruin is active. I've fought people like that.
The bigger problem are bad totem spawns/Survivors spawning next to totems and gens get done too quickly even with Ruin.
The bigger problem is that the benefits of these perks are not worth it, compared to the drawbacks. Hex perks should be overwhelmingly powerful, forcing Survivors to actively hunt them down as a means of survival. Instead, they're mostly ignored.
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@SenzuDuck said:
@Master said:
Survivors would disagree I guess^^Because you'd have to be stupid to think NOED that coming back even if all totems that are done would be fun for any survivor.
Killer could pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted, and then still have an insta down perk at the end even if the survivors did their job and got all the totems.duhhh survivor are such gen rushers, but if they do all the totems I'll still complain and get my noed. lol no.
BIAS
I
A
SBecause infinite SB, DH, SC are so fun for the killers! I literally shot diamonds, when I see them! Maybe we should connect them to the totems as well? Hm? Doesn't sound so good?
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@SenzuDuck said:
@Master said:
Survivors would disagree I guess^^Because you'd have to be stupid to think NOED that coming back even if all totems that are done would be fun for any survivor.
Killer could pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted, and then still have an insta down perk at the end even if the survivors did their job and got all the totems.duhhh survivor are such gen rushers, but if they do all the totems I'll still complain and get my noed. lol no.
entitled
I wish everyone would play 50/50 instead of becoming an entitled X main
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@RSB said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@Master said:
Survivors would disagree I guess^^Because you'd have to be stupid to think NOED that coming back even if all totems that are done would be fun for any survivor.
Killer could pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted, and then still have an insta down perk at the end even if the survivors did their job and got all the totems.duhhh survivor are such gen rushers, but if they do all the totems I'll still complain and get my noed. lol no.
BIAS
I
A
SBecause infinite SB, DH, SC are so fun for the killers! I literally shot diamonds, when I see them! Maybe we should connect them to the totems as well? Hm? Doesn't sound so good?
Let me just remind you I'm playing ranked 1 killer BECAUSE IM SO BIASED MATE
How aren't you biased? You literally only talk about killer buffs. You're blinded by bias.infinite SB, DH & SC?
If you have to complain about dead hard as a killer you're probably VERY VERY bad at it.
Sprint burst, infinite? lol what are you even talking about, exhaustion nerfs, one time use in a chase, get better.
Self care, it's almost like there's a trillion perks to help counter this perk, lol.Yea, add them to totems so you come back and complain about having to cleanse totems.
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@SenzuDuck said:
@RSB said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@Master said:
Survivors would disagree I guess^^Because you'd have to be stupid to think NOED that coming back even if all totems that are done would be fun for any survivor.
Killer could pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted, and then still have an insta down perk at the end even if the survivors did their job and got all the totems.duhhh survivor are such gen rushers, but if they do all the totems I'll still complain and get my noed. lol no.
BIAS
I
A
SBecause infinite SB, DH, SC are so fun for the killers! I literally shot diamonds, when I see them! Maybe we should connect them to the totems as well? Hm? Doesn't sound so good?
Let me just remind you I'm playing ranked 1 killer BECAUSE IM SO BIASED MATE
How aren't you biased? You literally only talk about killer buffs. You're blinded by bias.infinite SB, DH & SC?
If you have to complain about dead hard as a killer you're probably VERY VERY bad at it.
Sprint burst, infinite? lol what are you even talking about, exhaustion nerfs, one time use in a chase, get better.
Self care, it's almost like there's a trillion perks to help counter this perk, lol.Yea, add them to totems so you come back and complain about having to cleanse totems.
Oh guys, look, a R1! So impressed! Go on my profile and check my R1 achievement too, it is nice.
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@Master said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@Master said:
Survivors would disagree I guess^^Because you'd have to be stupid to think NOED that coming back even if all totems that are done would be fun for any survivor.
Killer could pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted, and then still have an insta down perk at the end even if the survivors did their job and got all the totems.duhhh survivor are such gen rushers, but if they do all the totems I'll still complain and get my noed. lol no.
entitled
I wish everyone would play 50/50 instead of becoming an entitled X main
Lol, hilarious how you think you're entitled to NOED even if all the totems have been destroyed, what in my comment to i think I'm entitled too? oh yea, nothing.
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@RSB said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@RSB said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@Master said:
Survivors would disagree I guess^^Because you'd have to be stupid to think NOED that coming back even if all totems that are done would be fun for any survivor.
Killer could pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted, and then still have an insta down perk at the end even if the survivors did their job and got all the totems.duhhh survivor are such gen rushers, but if they do all the totems I'll still complain and get my noed. lol no.
BIAS
I
A
SBecause infinite SB, DH, SC are so fun for the killers! I literally shot diamonds, when I see them! Maybe we should connect them to the totems as well? Hm? Doesn't sound so good?
Let me just remind you I'm playing ranked 1 killer BECAUSE IM SO BIASED MATE
How aren't you biased? You literally only talk about killer buffs. You're blinded by bias.infinite SB, DH & SC?
If you have to complain about dead hard as a killer you're probably VERY VERY bad at it.
Sprint burst, infinite? lol what are you even talking about, exhaustion nerfs, one time use in a chase, get better.
Self care, it's almost like there's a trillion perks to help counter this perk, lol.Yea, add them to totems so you come back and complain about having to cleanse totems.
Oh guys, look, a R1! So impressed! Go on my profile and check my R1 achievement too, it is nice.
Proves I play killer tho, proves I'm SO BIASED AND DONT PLAY KILLER
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@SenzuDuck said:
@Master said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@Master said:
Survivors would disagree I guess^^Because you'd have to be stupid to think NOED that coming back even if all totems that are done would be fun for any survivor.
Killer could pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted, and then still have an insta down perk at the end even if the survivors did their job and got all the totems.duhhh survivor are such gen rushers, but if they do all the totems I'll still complain and get my noed. lol no.
entitled
I wish everyone would play 50/50 instead of becoming an entitled X main
Lol, hilarious how you think you're entitled to NOED even if all the totems have been destroyed, what in my comment to i think I'm entitled too? oh yea, nothing.
I dont think there is a point arguing with you, So I wont
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@Master said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@Master said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@Master said:
Survivors would disagree I guess^^Because you'd have to be stupid to think NOED that coming back even if all totems that are done would be fun for any survivor.
Killer could pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted, and then still have an insta down perk at the end even if the survivors did their job and got all the totems.duhhh survivor are such gen rushers, but if they do all the totems I'll still complain and get my noed. lol no.
entitled
I wish everyone would play 50/50 instead of becoming an entitled X main
Lol, hilarious how you think you're entitled to NOED even if all the totems have been destroyed, what in my comment to i think I'm entitled too? oh yea, nothing.
I dont think there is a point arguing with you, So I wont
Because you can't dispute my question I've presented to you so you're gunna act like you're bigger and "walk away"
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I know, however Ruin is complete RNG. I can complete all 5 generators without any skill checks appearing... Yeah it's very very unlikely but if the survivors don't get any skill checks then Ruin is useless due to RNG. Furthermore, survivors can generator tap which is slow but negatives the perk entirely which already has a weakness to being destroyed. 50% is just a random number that I thought would be reasonable and it does it's job by directly slowing down the game... There's no cheap way to by pass it other than destroying the Ruin totem or by brute force repairing.MegaWaffle said:The problem with a 50% (I understand these are simply numbers pulled without tests) is it would punish people who do try to work through Ruin properly. I just go for the skill checks and ignore Ruin myself but with 50% reduction I'd go spend the 10-30 seconds to find the totem.
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SC has no real counter there is no downside to it other then it heals slower... there is no loss of progress when you have to run... it should regress while walking and regress faster when running, vaulting etc... I have no fear when i run SC and in a survival horror game I should have some fear.. being chased i can heal at killer shack, at a safe loop because I dont have downside running that perk... sloppy butcher? Samething applies no loss of progress with any perk that slows down healing for that matter... the samething applied to DS there was no counter to it now at least that perk will draw 1 or 2 people to make the save slowing the game downLet me just remind you I'm playing ranked 1 killer BECAUSE IM SO BIASED MATE
How aren't you biased? You literally only talk about killer buffs. You're blinded by bias.infinite SB, DH & SC?
If you have to complain about dead hard as a killer you're probably VERY VERY bad at it.
Sprint burst, infinite? lol what are you even talking about, exhaustion nerfs, one time use in a chase, get better.
Self care, it's almost like there's a trillion perks to help counter this perk, lol.Yea, add them to totems so you come back and complain about having to cleanse totems.
2
