What WOULD make you be ok with the ruin rework?
We're all here arguing about the changes to ruin, but what would really make you be ok with it?
The developers have already stated that an increase of gen time is unlikely, so throw your other ideas in here
Firstly, * I think Ruin should at least increase the amount of skill checks, with the removal of required greats when ruin is up I think it would be fair to increase the amount you recieve, and while checks aren't hard, they still do get missed, and they still make an alert.
Secondly, permanently make generator skill checks smaller, and decrease the size of great skill checks, as the boost from those is pretty significant if you get a lot, and they are no longer required to be large so you can hit them during ruin.
and Finally, a toolbox rework.
- Remove the increased speed of generators
- Make it so it reduces skill checks/increases their size
- Make up for the removal of gen speed, by allowing them to break dull totems quicker, this prevents them from countering thrill/hexes but encourages people to go for totems to remove the chance of NOED, thus wasting time
Addons can be reworked to make skill checks appear slightly/moderately/considerably less. BNP could remove the chance of skill checks up to 50% of the generator, it then expires. Keep all sabo features as they are
Thoughts, ideas? Too little? What are YOUR ideas?
Community Ideas:
- *Obviously a bad idea, but is it a bad idea if the greats don't increase gen progression, then you just have to face more skill checks like you normally would but without the boost.
- Map sizes are being mentioned a lot, I think the majority of us can agree that some maps need tiles removed, trim off the fat, offer more pallets (Unsafe & Safe) but remove dead space. Good examples Sheltered Woods, Rotten Fields, Thompson House, Disturbed Ward
- General Reworks to some "trouble perks" DS often being mentioned (removal of protection after another has been hooked)
- A rework of totem positions (possibly making them appear less obvious, less luminosity, smaller frame. Additionally just making them all dull as an option.
- Possbily? Making ruin a non hex perk (For what it's worth I think having gens just permanently regress because someone isn't on it is far too strong.
- Increased Toolbox Consumption W/ Ruin
Comments
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I've been fine with the ruin changes since they came out all I thought was wow they had the balls to change ruin lmao
33 -
I'm the same, but I'm just trying to find a middle ground. I'd rather players didn't leave, and while ruin is something I've never used as a killer unless requested or levelling someone new, it wouldn't hurt to make ruin a tad more powerful, and gens not work so well with tool boxes.
3 -
well for one engineer toolbox should get removed no tremendous gen speed lol
2 -
Remove the "hex" part.
And then do something about gen speed.
51 -
I like your toolbox idea, I’d like to keep the part of ruin that removes the great skill check bonus.
9 -
Skillchecks are actually helpful for experienced survivors who can hit great skill checks. The good thing about ruin was that it denied the bonus progression; I would at least keep this feature of the perk, I don't think it would affect or frustrate new players because I assume the frustrating part was being punished by the regression, I can't imagine the devs telling us new players felt frustrated because they hit the hex skill checks and didn't get the progression bonus. That would be insane.
5 -
The hex is far too powerful to just have all generators that aren't being worked on regress at 2x speed, sorry.
8 -
I’d be fine with the new Ruin if it wasn’t a hex and if they slowed down gen speed. The old Ruin was needed to slow down the match from the beginning, with the change, it is useless on its own, and basically requires you to run it with another perk to get its full potential.
7 -
Reworking toolboxes are a great start, but I don't think it will solve the problem completely.
I believe a second objective related to fuse boxes will give killers just a little more time to do objectives.
Post edited by NMCKE on11 -
Still half of a survivor fixing it... and won't do anything if the survivor holds m1.
It's too weak to be a hex.
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I mean, in general without ruin, even just making skill checks smaller and the greats smaller too, just an overall nerf to greats is part of the proposal, not just with ruin.
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I'm fine with the ruin change, I just want the gen regression cause by the perk to go down to 100% and make it not a hex perk.
2 -
Fine with the Ruin change. Add 20 seconds for gen completion.
Your toolbox change would just gut them entirely. Doesn't take very long to clean a dull totem and there's only a maximum of 5 of them anyway.
2 -
I don't think people look at it from every angle.
Take this, you're half way on a generator, someone is possibly going to go into struggle, you either have to come off the gen, and it regresses, which may fall even further if you stay and heal, the killer chases you etc, OR you let them go into struggle to finish the gen, removing an entire chase to kill that person as they're dead on hook.
I think if it's just permanently regresses gens all the time it becomes a nightmare for survivors trying to juggle gens against nurses/billys/spirits/huntress who can get people off gens fast and far away.
2 -
In my opinion the great skill checks are already small enough. I wouldn't be against making the good skill checks smaller tho. And maybe nerfing the amount of progression bonus you get from great skill checks would be good too.
0 -
reworking objectives. Gens are boring as hell so I don't want them to take longer. But either a secondary objective or somehow make gens more challenging.
8 -
Yet people still ignore totems and get hit with noed.
and if you increase gen times you will just see an increase of toolboxes if they aren't changed.
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Its very simple. Incrrase cleansing time on hex totems.
Go from 14 seconds to 20.
Or... Buff thrill. Easy
2 -
That I can agree on, but you're just doing gens and hitting mostly the same skill checks over and over, survivors are pretty well trained and even with small checks they're going to hit them even more consistently eventually, at least it would be harder.
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20 seconds + Thrill would make it almost impossible for you to cleanse the totem before they got back to you.
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One or the other
Im very reasonable. Thats why i said "or"
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I feel like any thing they add this late into the game is going to be "hold M1" whether you're holding M1 at a generator or holding M1 somewhere else, you're just doing a generator with extended time.
0 -
Too strong for a regular perk. Too weak for a hex.
Since it's a hex, the perk is too weak.
I would double it or at least make it a 3x regression to keep it a hex.
It's too weak early game, which is where you want your hexes to be strong, because they get cleansed.
And in the late game, it either makes a losing situation take longer, or a winning situation shorter. It will never turn the tides in your favor.
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and what I'm saying is with the standard thrill + 20 seconds totems it would be impossible, not buffed thrill + 20 second totems.
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Honestly, increasing skillchecks would DECREASE gen times. A survivor like me can consistantly hit great skillchecks, thus increasing gen speed. You'd be helping me out by equipping ruin if it affected how many skillchecks you got.
Making skillchecks smaller helps with great skill checks as well. I find when unnerving presence is run, it helps me instead of hurting me.
4 -
If all gens are done within a certain time frame (fast) Ruin will automatically transform a remaining dull totem to Noed.
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thats why i said make skill checks overall smaller, and making greats even smaller.
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Ruin should remove great skill checks entirely. In addition to its current PTB effects.
I've suggested some of those toolbox changes before and I mostly agree. I'd rather the devs get inventive with toolboxes and add ons than take the easy way out of making repairing faster.
Other add ons could make it so there's no gen explosion and notification when you miss a skill check, the gen will not regress for 15-30 seconds after you stop repairing (a soft counter to new Ruin, PGTW, etc), and blocking aura read changes (soft counter for Surveillance, Discordance), and so on
8 -
Or tweak it. 16 seconds? Something has to give
0 -
Perk reworks BT - remove deep wound, survivor has to be healed now just as before; DS - does not activate when grabbed (other then from window or pallet vaults); adrenaline - no longer wakes you up, only heals from dying state when activates, still ignores exhaustion and gives you a sprint regardless health state. Map balance
0 -
My wish is simple..if they must utterly trash ruin this hard...they need to start removing limiters on killers because killers now more than ever do not have time..I'd start simple..lower tier killers are going to struggle like never before..so we need the queen back..we need nurse..shes the anchor but definitely not as she is..get that stupid base kit hanger out and take all those addons with it if need be..then while nurse keeps the game afloat..again..start boosting potential of other killers..with ruin no longer able to "carry" weak killers will not work..they physically cant anymore..myers needs a stronger tier 3 and a stalking revamp, huntress needs to be faster somehow, trapper needs faster setup, hag needs less limitation on teleporting..this is what I want..I hated ruin but it was helping keep weaker killers afloat..people are massively underestimating how bad it's going to get..and this is the only permanent solution
10 -
Middle ground for ruin, in my opinion, would be:
-Great skill checks grants no bonus progression
-Good skill checks cause 1 % regression in all tiers
-Missing a skill check completely causes 3/4/5 % regression
-Increase the chances to get skill checks slightly/moderately/considerably
That would be a REASONABLE nerf to ruin and not as much punishing for new players than old ruin. I also like your idea for the toolboxes.
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@SenzuDuck I wanted to take a moment and tell you that I appreciate your thread. And for everyone commenting, I am impressed by the way you guys put your ideas without falling into accusations and dismissing anyone's idea because they are a ''whatever'' main.
Thanks for being great contributors to this Community. This is the kind of thread we don't hesitate to share directly with our Design team. Lots of well put feedback and ideas.
Keep at it, you are awesome!
43 -
Ruin on it's own is fine tbh but suffers the same problems as almost all the hex totems and that is they often don't stay up long enough to give value
I think with old ruin gone hex totems could regenerate after like 90 sec or something but lose all tokens. I don't think any hex totem would become that powerfull if this was the case
2 -
Toolboxes removed from the game, Prove Thyself hard nerf, Gen speed completion increase in time needed to complete. Fair game then.
0 -
Fix the problem Ruin addresses at the same time you nerf Ruin.
Take care of Gen speed and an early game that a killer can't realistically do anything about.
10 -
I agree that the great skill check bonus should be removed during the time Ruin is up, with the addition of making them on the whole, smaller, so you have to pay more attention.
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I agree with the ruin & great skill check debuff.
1 -
Map size reduction mostly. Probably a toolbox nerf. Increased gen times is an unpopular idea bc it's not that interesting but as a temporary band-aid measure it might be the easiest route.
7 -
I feel like reworking Toolboxes is the way to go instead of flat out removing them.
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I like the concept of new ruin, but it should get a special side effect like huntress's
When missing skillcheck, increase the regression by, lets say 5%
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Agreed, I'd love a general rework of the maps (which I personally think is the biggest problem, not gen speeds) some of the maps with only basement buildings are far too empty & boring, far from enjoyable.
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Anything to remove how ridiculously OP they are would be fine with me, but the fact that they can just as easily be found in a trial with perks to bolster them such as Ace in the Hole, Plunderer's, etc makes removing them far easier to do to make an impact.
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Personally. That sounds horrendous, anyone with a good anount of hours in the game can hit great skill checks with no issues, no matter the size. It would just weed out the less hours, not good at skill check players. The one thing that would mess it up is Huntress Lullaby, but that can be cleansed out of the game.
I said it before but I'll say it again. If they want Ruin to be useful in the lategame as they said; the perk needs to be built in and NOT a hex. I am almost certain that the percentage of totems that stay lit until all gens are complete is around
Rank 16-20: 40%
Rank 11-15: 15%
Rank 6-10: 2%
Rank 1-5: <1%
The perk needs to either have its regression nerfed so it can be justified as not being a hex; along the lines of regressing (1 / 1.25 / 1.5). Or it needs to be buffed to allow kicking into the ability with it.
Granted, the one major thing now is Surveilence + Ruin. But that forces you to use 2 perk slots for efficiency, and 1 of those can be cleansed out of the game.
They did need to rework Ruin, but they essentially killed a perk that many people buy that particular dlc for. We all know the Hag is a little... Weak... But her main perk that people got her for is Ruin. It would be similar to nerfing BBQ into oblivion, nobody would really get Leatherface anymore as he is the most underwhelming of all the killers so far (insidious camping the basement is fun though).
0 -
It needs some sort of confirmed value. As of now, the effect IS powerful in the EndGame. As everyone else has said, Hex perks rarely make it to the EndGame.
My idea is somewhat simple.
RUIN
Missed skill checks cause 5% more regression.
Skill check zones are reduced X%
Toolbox efficiency decreased X%
Good Skill Checks cause 1% regression.
Ruin becomes more diverse and stops potential gen speed increases, while not punishing newer players as much.
2 -
Decrease the regression speed to half of what a survivor repairs it, maybe a quarter, and remove the hex part.
Alternatively you could go the way of corrupt making it do something in 120s early game.
This needs to be an early game perk that’s powerful, otherwise you need to get rid of the hex part.
All hexes fking break in 9s-1m. It’s dumb to think you will get value without running thrill and guarding it.
1 -
When you miss a skillcheck the gen already loses 10% of its progress when it explodes, you mean increasing the loss by 3/4/5%?
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I'm fine with the changes.
I have issues with the notes tone and reasoning.
1 -
Remove Generators, change the gate switches to play the SAW's laughter when you finish filling the bar, and then the leave the survivor to discover that the doors are locked shut.
The doors won't open till I decide to let them leave - if I decide to let them leave.
Item sacrifices will be required, but not guarantee your escape.
Quentin's will be mori'd
7 -
I think removal of "greats" as a bonus progression is a good idea as part of the perk. I would even want to say that if the totem is broken the regression thing still remains for XXX amount of time as part such a powerful perk's lasting effects or some verbiage. The spell is broke-- but it takes awhile to get back to normal type of thing.
I also think a fundamental problem with hex totems are they are so easy to find. They need to be more inconspicuous - like closer to the ground and less white.... so they don't stick out like a beacon... even when unlit. There could also be assets that look like hex's from a short distance away but when up close is just a pile of bones or a hallucination the entity makes survivors think they see a totem which isn't really there... but I digress.
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