What WOULD make you be ok with the ruin rework?

Seanzu
Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526
edited January 2020 in General Discussions

We're all here arguing about the changes to ruin, but what would really make you be ok with it?

The developers have already stated that an increase of gen time is unlikely, so throw your other ideas in here

Firstly, * I think Ruin should at least increase the amount of skill checks, with the removal of required greats when ruin is up I think it would be fair to increase the amount you recieve, and while checks aren't hard, they still do get missed, and they still make an alert.

Secondly, permanently make generator skill checks smaller, and decrease the size of great skill checks, as the boost from those is pretty significant if you get a lot, and they are no longer required to be large so you can hit them during ruin.

and Finally, a toolbox rework.

  1. Remove the increased speed of generators
  2. Make it so it reduces skill checks/increases their size
  3. Make up for the removal of gen speed, by allowing them to break dull totems quicker, this prevents them from countering thrill/hexes but encourages people to go for totems to remove the chance of NOED, thus wasting time

Addons can be reworked to make skill checks appear slightly/moderately/considerably less. BNP could remove the chance of skill checks up to 50% of the generator, it then expires. Keep all sabo features as they are


Thoughts, ideas? Too little? What are YOUR ideas?

Community Ideas:

  • *Obviously a bad idea, but is it a bad idea if the greats don't increase gen progression, then you just have to face more skill checks like you normally would but without the boost.
  • Map sizes are being mentioned a lot, I think the majority of us can agree that some maps need tiles removed, trim off the fat, offer more pallets (Unsafe & Safe) but remove dead space. Good examples Sheltered Woods, Rotten Fields, Thompson House, Disturbed Ward
  • General Reworks to some "trouble perks" DS often being mentioned (removal of protection after another has been hooked)
  • A rework of totem positions (possibly making them appear less obvious, less luminosity, smaller frame. Additionally just making them all dull as an option.
  • Possbily? Making ruin a non hex perk (For what it's worth I think having gens just permanently regress because someone isn't on it is far too strong.
  • Increased Toolbox Consumption W/ Ruin
Post edited by Seanzu on
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Comments

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    I'm the same, but I'm just trying to find a middle ground. I'd rather players didn't leave, and while ruin is something I've never used as a killer unless requested or levelling someone new, it wouldn't hurt to make ruin a tad more powerful, and gens not work so well with tool boxes.

  • humanbeing1704
    humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 8,998

    well for one engineer toolbox should get removed no tremendous gen speed lol

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526
    edited January 2020

    I mean, in general without ruin, even just making skill checks smaller and the greats smaller too, just an overall nerf to greats is part of the proposal, not just with ruin.

  • Exerlin
    Exerlin Member Posts: 1,352

    I'm fine with the ruin change, I just want the gen regression cause by the perk to go down to 100% and make it not a hex perk.

  • Zephinism
    Zephinism Member Posts: 542

    Fine with the Ruin change. Add 20 seconds for gen completion.

    Your toolbox change would just gut them entirely. Doesn't take very long to clean a dull totem and there's only a maximum of 5 of them anyway.

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    I don't think people look at it from every angle.

    Take this, you're half way on a generator, someone is possibly going to go into struggle, you either have to come off the gen, and it regresses, which may fall even further if you stay and heal, the killer chases you etc, OR you let them go into struggle to finish the gen, removing an entire chase to kill that person as they're dead on hook.

    I think if it's just permanently regresses gens all the time it becomes a nightmare for survivors trying to juggle gens against nurses/billys/spirits/huntress who can get people off gens fast and far away.

  • Xerge
    Xerge Member Posts: 928

    In my opinion the great skill checks are already small enough. I wouldn't be against making the good skill checks smaller tho. And maybe nerfing the amount of progression bonus you get from great skill checks would be good too.

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    Yet people still ignore totems and get hit with noed.

    and if you increase gen times you will just see an increase of toolboxes if they aren't changed.

  • Dwight_Confusion
    Dwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,650

    Its very simple. Incrrase cleansing time on hex totems.

    Go from 14 seconds to 20.

    Or... Buff thrill. Easy

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    That I can agree on, but you're just doing gens and hitting mostly the same skill checks over and over, survivors are pretty well trained and even with small checks they're going to hit them even more consistently eventually, at least it would be harder.

  • Dwight_Confusion
    Dwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,650

    One or the other

    Im very reasonable. Thats why i said "or"

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    I feel like any thing they add this late into the game is going to be "hold M1" whether you're holding M1 at a generator or holding M1 somewhere else, you're just doing a generator with extended time.

  • Alice_pbg
    Alice_pbg Member Posts: 6,556

    Too strong for a regular perk. Too weak for a hex.

    Since it's a hex, the perk is too weak.

    I would double it or at least make it a 3x regression to keep it a hex.

    It's too weak early game, which is where you want your hexes to be strong, because they get cleansed.

    And in the late game, it either makes a losing situation take longer, or a winning situation shorter. It will never turn the tides in your favor.

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    and what I'm saying is with the standard thrill + 20 seconds totems it would be impossible, not buffed thrill + 20 second totems.

  • chase131119
    chase131119 Member Posts: 839

    Honestly, increasing skillchecks would DECREASE gen times. A survivor like me can consistantly hit great skillchecks, thus increasing gen speed. You'd be helping me out by equipping ruin if it affected how many skillchecks you got.

    Making skillchecks smaller helps with great skill checks as well. I find when unnerving presence is run, it helps me instead of hurting me.

  • DBD78
    DBD78 Member Posts: 3,463

    If all gens are done within a certain time frame (fast) Ruin will automatically transform a remaining dull totem to Noed.

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    thats why i said make skill checks overall smaller, and making greats even smaller.

  • Dwight_Confusion
    Dwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,650

    Or tweak it. 16 seconds? Something has to give

  • HellDescent
    HellDescent Member Posts: 4,883

    Perk reworks BT - remove deep wound, survivor has to be healed now just as before; DS - does not activate when grabbed (other then from window or pallet vaults); adrenaline - no longer wakes you up, only heals from dying state when activates, still ignores exhaustion and gives you a sprint regardless health state. Map balance

  • Stinde
    Stinde Member Posts: 459

    Middle ground for ruin, in my opinion, would be:

    -Great skill checks grants no bonus progression

    -Good skill checks cause 1 % regression in all tiers

    -Missing a skill check completely causes 3/4/5 % regression

    -Increase the chances to get skill checks slightly/moderately/considerably

    That would be a REASONABLE nerf to ruin and not as much punishing for new players than old ruin. I also like your idea for the toolboxes.

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  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976

    Ruin on it's own is fine tbh but suffers the same problems as almost all the hex totems and that is they often don't stay up long enough to give value

    I think with old ruin gone hex totems could regenerate after like 90 sec or something but lose all tokens. I don't think any hex totem would become that powerfull if this was the case

  • BeanieBoyBob
    BeanieBoyBob Member Posts: 354

    Toolboxes removed from the game, Prove Thyself hard nerf, Gen speed completion increase in time needed to complete. Fair game then.

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    I agree that the great skill check bonus should be removed during the time Ruin is up, with the addition of making them on the whole, smaller, so you have to pay more attention.

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526
  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    I feel like reworking Toolboxes is the way to go instead of flat out removing them.

  • Hoodied
    Hoodied Member Posts: 13,020

    I like the concept of new ruin, but it should get a special side effect like huntress's



    When missing skillcheck, increase the regression by, lets say 5%

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    Agreed, I'd love a general rework of the maps (which I personally think is the biggest problem, not gen speeds) some of the maps with only basement buildings are far too empty & boring, far from enjoyable.

  • BeanieBoyBob
    BeanieBoyBob Member Posts: 354

    Anything to remove how ridiculously OP they are would be fine with me, but the fact that they can just as easily be found in a trial with perks to bolster them such as Ace in the Hole, Plunderer's, etc makes removing them far easier to do to make an impact.

  • Snow_Lep
    Snow_Lep Member Posts: 305

    Personally. That sounds horrendous, anyone with a good anount of hours in the game can hit great skill checks with no issues, no matter the size. It would just weed out the less hours, not good at skill check players. The one thing that would mess it up is Huntress Lullaby, but that can be cleansed out of the game.


    I said it before but I'll say it again. If they want Ruin to be useful in the lategame as they said; the perk needs to be built in and NOT a hex. I am almost certain that the percentage of totems that stay lit until all gens are complete is around

    Rank 16-20: 40%

    Rank 11-15: 15%

    Rank 6-10: 2%

    Rank 1-5: <1%

    The perk needs to either have its regression nerfed so it can be justified as not being a hex; along the lines of regressing (1 / 1.25 / 1.5). Or it needs to be buffed to allow kicking into the ability with it.

    Granted, the one major thing now is Surveilence + Ruin. But that forces you to use 2 perk slots for efficiency, and 1 of those can be cleansed out of the game.

    They did need to rework Ruin, but they essentially killed a perk that many people buy that particular dlc for. We all know the Hag is a little... Weak... But her main perk that people got her for is Ruin. It would be similar to nerfing BBQ into oblivion, nobody would really get Leatherface anymore as he is the most underwhelming of all the killers so far (insidious camping the basement is fun though).

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,775

    It needs some sort of confirmed value. As of now, the effect IS powerful in the EndGame. As everyone else has said, Hex perks rarely make it to the EndGame.

    My idea is somewhat simple.

    RUIN

    Missed skill checks cause 5% more regression.

    Skill check zones are reduced X%

    Toolbox efficiency decreased X%

    Good Skill Checks cause 1% regression.


    Ruin becomes more diverse and stops potential gen speed increases, while not punishing newer players as much.

  • Psycho_
    Psycho_ Member Posts: 360
    edited January 2020

    Decrease the regression speed to half of what a survivor repairs it, maybe a quarter, and remove the hex part.

    Alternatively you could go the way of corrupt making it do something in 120s early game.

    This needs to be an early game perk that’s powerful, otherwise you need to get rid of the hex part.

    All hexes fking break in 9s-1m. It’s dumb to think you will get value without running thrill and guarding it.

  • Xerge
    Xerge Member Posts: 928

    When you miss a skillcheck the gen already loses 10% of its progress when it explodes, you mean increasing the loss by 3/4/5%?

  • GodDamn_Angela
    GodDamn_Angela Member Posts: 2,213

    I'm fine with the changes.

    I have issues with the notes tone and reasoning.