What WOULD make you be ok with the ruin rework?
Comments
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I think removal of "greats" as a bonus progression is a good idea as part of the perk. I would even want to say that if the totem is broken the regression thing still remains for XXX amount of time as part such a powerful perk's lasting effects or some verbiage. The spell is broke-- but it takes awhile to get back to normal type of thing.
I also think a fundamental problem with hex totems are they are so easy to find. They need to be more inconspicuous - like closer to the ground and less white.... so they don't stick out like a beacon... even when unlit. There could also be assets that look like hex's from a short distance away but when up close is just a pile of bones or a hallucination the entity makes survivors think they see a totem which isn't really there... but I digress.
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I may not agree with how things are being handled recently..but I'm assuming you read my idea on the way here..I'm telling you player to player..if we want to solve this gen issue..I truley believe my idea is the only permanent solution
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also for gods sakes make sure survivors don't spawn right on the totem because i hate just leaving my spawn and walking alittle distance then BOOM then i just kinda want to leave because now im down a perk thanks to bad spawns.
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I honestly think they can add the regression back, but make it so it doesn't pause the gen for 3 seconds before you can progress it more, make it resume gen progress instantly.
Or...they fix some of the maps to not be the size of 4 continents but that's definitely not gonna happen. Every map should be between Chapel and Haddonfield in terms of size imo
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Is it so much? I always thought the base regression for missing skill check was 5 %. But yes, that is what I meant, a bonus penalty for missing the skill check. Like Huntress' lullaby gives 6 % bonus regression at tier 3 if missed.
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This sounds better, but I doubt the devs would approve. I do approve tho.
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I'm very worried about how this change is going to effect me as a survivor. I'm brand new to the game; only been active casually for about a month now. I feel like games are over very quickly as is even when going against Ruin.
I'm specifically worried at the measures that will be taken by killers to win. I really don't mind going against Ruin at all. What absolutely makes a game terrible and frustrating is being tunneled, slugged, or just removed all together by Mori. Which I expect to see a lot more which will make this game far far less enjoyable.
I suggest a 10% change from two fronts.
Make the generators take 10% longer to complete.
Make the area of the map 10% smaller
I believe these small tweaks will give the added pressure needed to make the games more enjoyable for both parties and give you the result that you're looking for with the new Hex: Ruin rework.
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If they want it to say a Hex, it needs to ruin literally everything. it should auto regress generators, slow down healing, cleansing, sabotaging, and searching speeds. Make its strength be worthy of a Hex totem.
You could take away the Hex part and instead have it automatically regress generators at a speed based on how many totems (dull or Hex) are still up. Perhaps .5% per totem. This would increase its initial power, but still make so that cleansing totems will still effect it so that survivors can eventually be rid of it, and it can keep its traditional ability of effecting the game for a longer period of time.
I think this would still honor the perk's ability to slow down the start of the game and give more power to survivors to make it weaker over time.
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This is honestly what I would've liked to see when it comes to a Ruin change. It's a nerf, but it still works in a similar way to before by depending on great skillchecks or the totem's destruction to be mitigated.
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What if insteadof increasing gen speed toolboxes increase the great skill check zone
That way it will still speed up gens for lower rank survivors while veterans who can hit greats anyway can't do them at insane speed anymore
I feel that would be a good way to reduce genrush in high ranks without making low rank survivors weaker
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I never understood why the totem closest to the killer's spawn isn't designated the hex. At least it wouldn't be broken literally 20 seconds after the game starts.
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Totem Spawns in general being fixed. I saw Tru3 playing on the PTB and on Lery's totems were cleansed literally EVERY TIME within 15 seconds of the game starting. "Hid Totems Better" but they SERIOUSLY need to be hidden better AND have the spawns fixed. I'd rather have totems spawn slightly predictably on the killer's side of the map, rather than spawning next to survivors and the totem is gone before the killer can even reach it.
Perhaps the ability to re-light totems or re-apply a hex to a dull totem. Would it take time for the killer? Yes. Would it be worth it? Maybe! Personally, I think stacks of Devour Hope and Huntress Lullaby should reset when cleansed. (I.E. you have 3 stacks of devour hope, survivors cleanse it, you re-apply it to a dull totem, you start from 0 stacks again.)
This will DRASTICALLY encourage cleansing dull totems. We need more hex perks like NOED where a dull totem becomes lit under certain circumstances. RIght now the only reason to cleanse a dull totem is in case of NOED and making it easier to cleanse totems with Thrill.
Gen times need to be increased or a secondary objective added, or both.
IIRC the devs stated they don't want to increase gen times anymore so they nerfed healing.
Killers brought ruin because generators can simply be completed too quickly. A secondary objective can add more to the game without making the actual repairs more boring. Having to find fuel for the generator to progress repairs, (Maybe fuel dispensers throughout the map a survivor can fill a jerry can up with), having to find a missing part to actually "start" repairs on a generator, which is hidden in a locker (Or brought into the trial with Brand New Part) a fuse for a breaker box to transfer generator power to the exit gate switch, etc.
Point is, killers brought Ruin because the game can be over in as little as 3 minutes. Adding more objectives can make the game longer WITHOUT simply making generators take longer.
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I feel having all these debuffs would almost certainly make it survivors first mission to get rid of and would just make it weaker by increasing the need to remove it.
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Because it's very easy to determine where a killer comes from, so if you know there is a hex you know exactly where to look first.
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That would only ensure it's destruction.
"Killer came from X direction, totem is there"
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They need to address both the gen speed and map design. I think giving diminishing returns for more than 2 people on a gen would be a good way to encourage survivors to spread out more and keep gen speeds low. Combine this with a tighter map and time until encountering the other side increases immensely. As it stands now, ruin is the only thing being changed and not addressing gen speed and map design along side the ruin change will make a long of people upset.
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It's better than porting into a game and turning around and seeing a hex to cleanse. Which has happened to me quite often.
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There's already diminishing returns... it's why being separated is already the best strategy.
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Hex: Ruin
The bonus speed you will get from teammates when working on a gen is significantly reduced, so instead of 44 seconds when 2 Survivors are working on a gen it could be like 60 or 70 seconds, also the effect of the regressing when the Survivors leaves the gen stays like it is in the PTB.
It could also remove the great skillchecks, but that could be a bit too much since the speed of the gens when you're working with a friend is slowed. :)
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How about ruin just makes gen take 20% longer until its busted?
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What is it about the game that makes 80% of killers at red ranks use it? It’s generator speed. They get done too quickly without something to slow the game down. That’s the wound that Ruin is designed to bandage. You need to fix the underlying damage before removing the bandage. Fix generator speed.
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I think the way it is now it should be a stealth hex, giving no notification to survivors and trying to be as unnoticeable as possible without the "make the totem unlit" suggestion.
For example the regresion should only start after X amount of seconds stopping working on the gen so survivors dont tap it for 2 seconds and find ruin at the start, it also should substract X amount of work as starting value to compensate for those seconds ruin wasnt active, if someone starts working again on the gen before X gets substracted it gets added to a pool and it gets substracted once the gen starts regressing (up to a maximum).
It could also proc more fast checks and less slow checks.
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Add a new perk for totems that removes the risk of using totem perks and make them secondary objectives to the survivor.
Example:
"If a lit totem is destroyed and another dull totem is remaining on the map, Apply the destroyed hex on that dull totem in 60/45/30 seconds, This effect persists until no dull totems remain in the trial."
I am sure people would think to use Hex:Ruin+Surveillance+New perk+Thrill of the hunt to make totems stronger, but realize that killer would be using like 4 perks slots just to make totem perks reliable useful. I mean, if your using all 4 perk slots, you'd think that perks would do something. People don't have to break the totems to win, but if they decide ignore their secondary objective, than killer should be able capitalize. I think it would also allow other totem perks to perhaps get used and maybe new totem perks could be invented like having new totem perk that grants undetectable status for entire match until broken would be an interesting addition to the game.
One of the fears I have with current change is that a lot of survivors will play in something called Auto pilot mode. They won't really bother to hit great skill checks because they're no longer requires to do so. So what if Great skill checks added more bonus progression like 5% but generator took longer like 100 seconds. In that way, if people play auto-pilot and don't bother to land greats, than it takes longer to do generators and if they do, they get rewarded about same time as it is now so it becomes more of an optional skill.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on1 -
I posted an idea in another thread, so I'll bring it back here.
Ruin starts with three tokens. Every time a Survivor is sacrificed, remove one token. 3 tokens equals 300% regression. 2 tokens is 200% regression , 1 is 100%, and at 0 tokens the perk deactivates.
I know 300% sounds like a lot, but with 4 survivors alive at least one of is them going to stay on a generator until it's completed. If they never leave the generator, ruin doesn't affect them.
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- Nerf toolboxes + their addons
- Balance maps (much quicker than they're currently doing, don't do the visual rework if it means each map takes half a year to do)
I'm already fine with Ruin being removed (as it currently functions), I just think these things need to happen also.
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This would make using any other perk pointless, there would never be any reason not to run if because the game would never speed up until you killed someone, you could if you were a good killer, just toy with survivors, you also have to look at this with pop, 300% gen slow down, you get a hook, and get to regress a generator by 25%
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Agreed - I have no issue with gen speed and I don't use ruin, the maps are the largest issue and with smaller maps it helps a lot of the less maneuverable killers
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Unless the devs rework all the unfair maps (which won't happen) and address the SWF problem (also won't happen), Ruin should not be touched.
That's what needs to happen for me to accept the Ruin change.
But who are we kidding? The devs are just going to push this Ruin change through and that will be it.
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Sure, i'll give it a shot...
Ruin
All generators are affected by Ruin.
If a Generator with repair progress is not being worked on, it instantly starts regressing at the normal regress rate.
Every unfinished Generator grants Ruin a Token, which increase Ruin's regress rate by 10/12/15% per Token.
And yes, i purposely left out the "Hex" part.
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ok what if each of dull totems will increase penalty for making gen.. it woudlnt be crazy hard, but it would be nice to see people go and remove dull totems and if someone woudlnt want to do it he can be in gen
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Decrease the regression speed value from 2x to like 0.75x, and remove the HEX part
Honestly this change is bad for the game overall, because it hurts the low tier killers like Clown and Trapper and actually BUFFS the 3 top tier killers that have tools to apply pressure on the map.
This just enforces the 3 killer meta and makes playing low tier killers pure suffering.
Not only will you see the 3 top killers (Nurse, Spirit, Billy) more often, but killers will also start slugging / tunneling more often as well.
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I strongly believe that there should be a counter snowball mechanic built into the game. By that I mean something that helps the side that is at its weakest. At the start of the game the killer is clearly at it's weakest. That is why ruin was so popular in the first place. It was the one effective tool all killers had access to that would slow the survivors early game.
What I would like to see is a rule where survivors had a penalty to repairing generators while all 4 survivors are alive and no one is on a hook or in the dying state. And then for survivors to get a repair bonus to generators for each dead survivor. The actual percentages could be play tested to find what is fair to both sides.
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One upside about ruin -not- being a hex would be that despite being strong with surveillance it wouldn't work at all with some other good gen slowdown perks i.e. pop goes the weasel
Some may go for ruin + surveillance, some would combo things like corrupt, pop, discordance instead. So there'd be more variety, which was an issue the devs listed with old ruin.
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A reworked ruin would of been fine as long as the issues behind its use were addressed and no it's not the Gatekeeper Emblem.
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The problem is gen speed in general. This Ruin rework would be fine if the devs acknowledge gen speed is being looked at as well. I think this has always been the issue.
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new ruin is fine no changes needed but hey i dont run it so who am i
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I clearly know that this will have a bad end..
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Pop doesnt work with Ruin anymore. You can't kick a regressing gen.
It's not 300% slowdown. A survivor who stays on the gen still finishes it in 80 seconds. If you chase them away and it's 20 seconds before someone goes back on the gen, they make up for that regression in 15 seconds.
This doesn't even fix the map problem. I had another match yesterday where a gen was finished before I even reached it. I was still a tile away when the gen popped and I saw 3 survivors scatter like cockroaches.
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This thread keeps on getting better!
The discussions are great, the suggestions are plenty and we have 0 insulting comments at this time. I am proud of all of you.
Keep'em coming!
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DS SHOULD BE REWORK AGAIN AFTER RUIN REWORK
Don't get me wrong
The reason I want DS to be rework
Not something like "You need to rework another strong perk to be fair" etc.
But because I think the current DS will amplify the problem of too fast generators.
why?
Because after the DS is BUFF (rework), the killer can no longer snowball by getting early kills.
This will cause 4 survivors to live on the field for a long time
And this would cause the generator to be repaired too quickly
And the difficulty of killer exerting pressure
If you don't believe it
You can try to think back
Before DS was BUFF
Does the killer mostly only take 1 or 2 slowing perks?
At that time, there were still killer use perks like Spirit Fury + Enduring.
Or some other fun comble perks.
After DS was BUFF.
Is it gradually disappearing?
Developed to almost 4 speed reduction perks now
Or 3 slowdowns plus one detection perks
And these I think are the effects of DS causing the killer to not snowball by early kill.
Now that RUIN is gone.
the gen speed issue would only be worse.
I think it is very necessary to re-examine this perk.
I know it's not fun to be killed early in the game
But everything has to be balanced
It is impossible to make one side completely interesting
And push the uninteresting things to the other side
This is not good for the overall development of the game
And remake DS
It will not have a big impact on the novice gaming experience that DEV cares about now.
Because anyway, novices can't press QTE right?
If not, there is no need to remake RUIN.
So remake DS
Maybe changed it to have nothing to do with hitting the killer.
Can improve the overall environment of the game
And without affecting the novice gaming experience.
Please DEV must seriously consider about it.
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you're right, it doesn't, my bad. This is what I get for creating threads when I've not slept.
Still - a flat 300% progress debuff just because no one is dead is extreme. Again, I completely misunderstood, I need to sleep I thought you meant gens were just 300% slower until someone died, to 200%.
I'm going to sleep and hopefully come back to this thread, sorry for the misunderstanding.
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I’m not sure if someone has said it already (didn’t read the entire thread).
What about decreasing gen speed per gen completed?
Early Game (5-4) Current Repair Speed
Mid Game (3) -5% Gen Repair Speed
Late Game (2-1) -10% Gen Repair Speed
- % used is just an example
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Make Hex totems unlit. That solves a large part of the issue quickly. Either by forcing Survivors to cleanse every totem (it's another objective right?) or else deal with the Hex throughout the game's entirety, which would give you your endgame strength.This will also teach new players why leaving a potential NOED totem untouched is a bad thing.
That and take away the stupid handholding notifications for anything and everything in the game. Back when you had to pay attention to the statuses of your teammates, the game was a LOT more tense. You didn't know if that insta-down was DH or that you were mangled and couldn't repair gens as fast. You had to pay attention instead of running on auto-pilot. That's part of the learning experience of the game, and it's taken away a lot of the surprise factor when playing as a Survivor.
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I feel like as a whole, this would make the game less enjoyable (I know survivor enjoyment meme etc) but this is honestly just punishing survivors for doing their objective, while giving killers more time to kill because the survivors are succeeding.
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As much as I like the idea of unlit totems all-around I feel like it's a debuff, I ignore the heck out of totems depending on how close I am to a gen, I am 100% more likely to cleanse every & any totem I see if it may clear a hex.
Alternatively, I'd like totems to be made shorter, darker & less lit.
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Everything done is a punishment to one side or the other.
I believe it’s a good middle ground. The % can be less, I’m not sure on the stats on how much it impacts generators, that’s up to the devs. However, the slowdown can be reversed. Game starts off slow and picks up the pace every time a generator is completed.
Survivors are still equipped with toolboxes. It would just cause survivors to be more strategic. Under this concept: Crowd one gen = less time to finish others due to the potential slowdown PER gen, spread out and you can take advantage of a quicker pace by eliminating or progressing generators at a non-slowed speed.
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I like this.
It would also be nice if 2-3 more totems were added to each game (maybe dependent on map size?), and hex totems were not on fire.
Not sure if this would be op, but if there were a few more totems, and none lit, survivors would have more urgency to break them. This would also help with gen speeds since survivors need to be doing another task, and make totem based perks more viable. The Hex perks would get a indirect buff, and survivors would more inclined to use small game or detectives hunch.
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Making the current effect a baseline mechanic.
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Have the new Ruin regress at x2 speed like it does now if only one survivor has been repairing that gen when the killer chases them off it (or they leave it for whatever reason). Increase that regression speed x3, x4 and finally x5 depending on how many survivors were repairing it before the killer chased them off, for example the regression would be x5 if all four survivors were chased off that gen, if there were 3 survivors chased off the gen it would be x4 regression. Have this accumulated debuff reset when one or more survivors start repairing the gen again. Just an idea, maybe it is too much. The current new Ruin doesn't have much "reward" for the amount of risk a totem carries.
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I think the main problem is that the early game is too survivor-sided without Ruin. Until the Killer gets their first down, the Survivors have free reign over the generators, with the end result that a low-mobility Killer will often lose a generator before they even find their first Survivor, and they might lose multiple generators before they can finish their first chase.
That's the biggest problem that needs to be addressed, in my opinion.
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