Tru3Ta1ent speaks the TRUTH
https://youtu.be/DsRO2_gbq7k?t=6m53s
"Get rid of Decisive, Insidious, and NOED and rank would be a lot more skill based."
He is 100% right. DS and NOED are crutch perks for bad players. Killers defend NOED until they are blue in the face but at the end of the day it's there as a comeback mechanic for when you fail, making it a crutch (just like DS). If you need this perk to get kills, accept that you aren't as good a killer as you might think. And if you complain about DS but use NOED you are nothing but a hypocrite.
I agree with him on Insidious only because it makes people play like trolls, not necessarily because it's a crutch. With a few tweaks I think it could be salvaged.
BTW I got to rank 1 with Freddy without using NOED, just incase someone wants to tell me "git gud". Also I'm sure some killer main will say something like "Tru is a bad killer" as a way to dismiss his statements, when the truth is they just can't stand when one of their own actually tells it how it is.
Come at me.
Comments
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Oh look, another fan of X youtuber making a post to try to promote their x youtuber's opinions thats been stated a thousand times. It's not just Noed & Ds that's wrong with this game. There's a lot of things wrong with this game that even if those perks were nerfed or gone, would exist. Also, stop being an attention ######### with the "Come at me". if you're single, I will come at you
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I don't think NOED needs to be removed or nerfed... But it is definitely a crutch perk. It only rewards mistakes, even if it is good for cheesy strats.I think overused meta perks need to be nerfed/changed, and I don't think NOED ranks that highly.9
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@MrChills said:
Oh look, another fan of X youtuber making a post to try to promote their x youtuber's opinions thats been stated a thousand times. It's not just Noed & Ds that's wrong with this game. There's a lot of things wrong with this game that even if those perks were nerfed or gone, would exist. Also, stop being an attention [BAD WORD] with the "Come at me". if you're single, I will come at youI'm quoting him because he is a popular killer main that says openly NOED is a crutch and only bad killers use it. Too many killers defend it, but then turn around and complain about DS, making them hypocrites. And again, let's just dismiss my statements because 1) a big YT'er said them too or 2) they've been said before. Doesn't make them any less true.
Also I never said there wasn't other stuff wrong with the game. That's another problem with this place, people correlate "You said X" to "you imply Y" when the two are totally exclusive. To make those jumps in logic just goes to show what side people are on when they reply to you. Stop making assumptions about what I think of the game when I never even mentioned anything about them.
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More balance issues with how Ruin has to be in the killer's build (and its place in balance) than DS or NOED.
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Aht he salty tears of the killers mains bashing him because gasp he dares to speak the truth as a rank 1 killer. Yet if he said nerf survivor x you'd say he speaks the truth and his word would be golden. Typical hypocrites, his words are worthless when you agree with him but if you don't they're meaningless.
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@Eninya said:
More balance issues with how Ruin has to be in the killer's build (and its place in balance) than DS or NOED.LOL Again I never said anything about this. The topic is that "NOED/DS are crutch perks", not "these unrelated mechanics need a fix".
@wtfisgoingon said:
Who cares what this talentless tard says?Look at him.
Starting a drinking game. Anytime someone dismisses Tru's statements because they don't like the idea they are a bad killer/survivor, take a shot.
I might need to stop by the liquour store soon...
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He's beautiful. 😍wtfisgoingon said:Look at him.
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i think both ds and noed are vastly overrated and situational at best. an inability to counter either means thou art bad.2
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@thesuicidefox said:
@MrChills said:
Oh look, another fan of X youtuber making a post to try to promote their x youtuber's opinions thats been stated a thousand times. It's not just Noed & Ds that's wrong with this game. There's a lot of things wrong with this game that even if those perks were nerfed or gone, would exist. Also, stop being an attention [BAD WORD] with the "Come at me". if you're single, I will come at youI'm quoting him because he is a popular killer main that says openly NOED is a crutch and only bad killers use it. Too many killers defend it, but then turn around and complain about DS, making them hypocrites. And again, let's just dismiss my statements because 1) a big YT'er said them too or 2) they've been said before. Doesn't make them any less true.
Also I never said there wasn't other stuff wrong with the game. That's another problem with this place, people correlate "You said X" to "you imply Y" when the two are totally exclusive. To make those jumps in logic just goes to show what side people are on when they reply to you. Stop making assumptions about what I think of the game when I never even mentioned anything about them.
I'll do it everytime baby.
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@campasaurus said:
i think both ds and noed are vastly overrated and situational at best. an inability to counter either means thou art bad.You say this, but then how many survivors escape when they shouldn't have because of DS? How many killers get kills they shouldn't have with NOED? A lot, being able to counter them doesn't mean they still aren't crutches for bad players.
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thesuicidefox said:
@campasaurus said:
i think both ds and noed are vastly overrated and situational at best. an inability to counter either means thou art bad.You say this, but then how many survivors escape when they shouldn't have because of DS? How many killers get kills they shouldn't have with NOED? A lot, being able to counter them doesn't mean they still aren't crutches for bad players.
i seldom see such but i play at lower ranks.
i never use ds but for noed, it works quite well for open gates and survivors that tend to lollygag.2 -
First off he is not a killer main he plays both killer and survivor in rotation. He is 50/50. He does not main one side. He even said this many of times. I'm a survivor main. I use NOED on all my killers if I have it, because i'm bad as a killer. I'm 95% survivor and about 5% killer. I only play killer for daily's or for the events to farm.
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I want to give up DS and NOED, but I actually use NOED on Pig.
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both of them are outstanding for making people mad and i believe that is what we are truly here for whether, we admit such or not.Post edited by campasaurus on2
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I hate DS even as a survivor and I won't use it. I hope they still plan on changing it
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Noed and DS users are trash asf.
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@franticpig29 said:
First off he is not a killer main he plays both killer and survivor in rotation. He is 50/50. He does not main one side. He even said this many of times. I'm a survivor main. I use NOED on all my killers if I have it, because i'm bad as a killer. I'm 95% survivor and about 5% killer. I only play killer for daily's or for the events to farm.That one I wasn't expecting. "Let's dismiss his argument because he isn't a killer main." I'll still take a shot.
At least you can admit that you are a bad killer, I can respect that. But here's a thought... maybe you would get BETTER as killer if you didn't use NOED? When you become complacent with the game doing the work for you don't get better. I encourage you to try playing without NOED for a while. You might get bodied, but you would definitely get better at the game.
It's the same argument I make to Gears 4 players that insist core tuning takes skill. Sad fact is when Gnasher can 2 shot you from across snipe on Gridlock that's the game doing the work for you. Anyone with half decent aim will get kills using core Gnasher. Competitive Gnasher though takes a lot of skill, because you need to outplay someone's position and move up on them, then outplay them AGAIN in a situation where you have an equal chance to die in 1 shot (as they will also be using a Gnasher in that situation). When I can just "pop pop" safely from behind a wall there is no outplay, especially if I know what I'm doing. You are just pushing into a losing fight, and defensive tactics become the meta. Hence why core is full of lock down strats that have no counters, because when you get 5 people that understand the game they can abuse these cheesey tactics.
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I agree with him. Get rid of them all. All three are crutches except for Insidious, however it just promotes cheesy camping.3
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@franticpig29 said:
First off he is not a killer main he plays both killer and survivor in rotation. He is 50/50. He does not main one side. He even said this many of times. I'm a survivor main. I use NOED on all my killers if I have it, because i'm bad as a killer. I'm 95% survivor and about 5% killer. I only play killer for daily's or for the events to farm.At least you're honest as a killer unlike some on here who blame everything but themselves when they do badly. Now that isn't to say that there's issues they are but quite a few on here use that as an excuses.
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@SovererignKing said:
I agree with him. Get rid of them all. All three are crutches except for Insidious, however it just promotes cheesy camping.Yea Insidious isn't a crutch as much as it is just a trolly perk. I've never seen someone use it that wasn't trying to do basement LF tactics or facecamping to prevent BT. Not sure how to rework it to make it more tactical, Tinkerer kinda already has it beat in terms of tactical usefulness.
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I actually like the extra challenge of cleansing all 5 totems. i wish more survivors felt the same and didnt proc NOED 9 out of 10 matches.3
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That said, I wouldnt mind seeing all 3 go, but atill think an extra objective is fun.2
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NOED: Keep speed bonus but give full aura reading of the survivors instead of insta downs.
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I think Noed is not really a problem because when I am playing survivor and I find out that it is active I have no one to blame but myself for just focusing on gens and passing by dull totems.
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Although i respect Tru3 as a player trying to bring positivity into the community i disagree with his opinion.
DS and NOED are part of the game and most likely here to stay however with that being said they may need to be adjusted/tweaked. I will leave that up to the devs
Insidious is just funny and can provide some good jump scares
If you can't stand the perks then get out of the fog!
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@DepravedKiller said:
DS and NOED are part of the game and most likely here to stay however with that being said they may need to be adjusted/tweaked. I will leave that up to the devsExplain to me how being "part of the game" makes it acceptable? Infinites were once part of the game. Instant-fix BNP was once part of the game. Tinkerer 2 bug was part of the game (until today). SWF is part of the game. Stacking purple mist is part of the game.
Just because it's "part of the game" doesn't automatically make it okay.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://youtu.be/DsRO2_gbq7k?t=6m53s"Get rid of Decisive, Insidious, and NOED and rank would be a lot more skill based."
He is 100% right. DS and NOED are crutch perks for bad players. Killers defend NOED until they are blue in the face but at the end of the day it's there as a comeback mechanic for when you fail, making it a crutch (just like DS). If you need this perk to get kills, accept that you aren't as good a killer as you might think. And if you complain about DS but use NOED you are nothing but a hypocrite.
I agree with him on Insidious only because it makes people play like trolls, not necessarily because it's a crutch. With a few tweaks I think it could be salvaged.
BTW I got to rank 1 with Freddy without using NOED, just incase someone wants to tell me "git gud". Also I'm sure some killer main will say something like "Tru is a bad killer" as a way to dismiss his statements, when the truth is they just can't stand when one of their own actually tells it how it is.
Come at me.
NOED at least for me personally is when the gens get done too quickly and i dont use ruin (it goes in like 30 seconds at worst) and its all right because the gens get usually done really quick and there is nothing i can do regardless (unless i dedicate my time playing nurse but its pysically impossible for me due to ######### fps.)
Its not that i want necessarilly to use it. Its either that or no killing power at the end game (assuming they dont destroy the totems preventing it which is the true thing that differenciates it from DS (hence why many including me think NOED is not DS)).
And i used to not use it and i was still dependent on if the survivors sucked (as will probably always be unfortunally).
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@Zavri said:
NOED: Keep speed bonus but give full aura reading of the survivors instead of insta downs.The full aura reading should just be a base thing after like 3 mins or similar.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@DepravedKiller said:
DS and NOED are part of the game and most likely here to stay however with that being said they may need to be adjusted/tweaked. I will leave that up to the devsExplain to me how being "part of the game" makes it acceptable? Infinites were once part of the game. Instant-fix BNP was once part of the game. Tinkerer 2 bug was part of the game (until today). SWF is part of the game. Stacking purple mist is part of the game.
Just because it's "part of the game" doesn't automatically make it okay.
Infinites were survivors using obstacles in the game to create a never ending running loop. The obstacles are still in the game but were as i said adjusted.
BNP is still in the game and was tweaked to make it less powerful however still part of the game
Tinkerer 2 was an unforeseen bug that they fixed but the perk itself is still part of the game.
Thus making all of these acceptable by design. However due to player feedback on fun and enjoyment around these perks is when the devs decide to change them.
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@DepravedKiller said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@DepravedKiller said:
DS and NOED are part of the game and most likely here to stay however with that being said they may need to be adjusted/tweaked. I will leave that up to the devsExplain to me how being "part of the game" makes it acceptable? Infinites were once part of the game. Instant-fix BNP was once part of the game. Tinkerer 2 bug was part of the game (until today). SWF is part of the game. Stacking purple mist is part of the game.
Just because it's "part of the game" doesn't automatically make it okay.
Infinites were survivors using obstacles in the game to create a never ending running loop. The obstacles are still in the game but were as i said adjusted.
BNP is still in the game and was tweaked to make it less powerful however still part of the game
Tinkerer 2 was an unforeseen bug that they fixed but the perk itself is still part of the game.
Thus making all of these acceptable by design. However due to player feedback on fun and enjoyment around these perks is when the devs decide to change them.
Dont forget looping the "bug" to put it mildly that got turned into a mechanic (of sorts).
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@DepravedKiller said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@DepravedKiller said:
DS and NOED are part of the game and most likely here to stay however with that being said they may need to be adjusted/tweaked. I will leave that up to the devsExplain to me how being "part of the game" makes it acceptable? Infinites were once part of the game. Instant-fix BNP was once part of the game. Tinkerer 2 bug was part of the game (until today). SWF is part of the game. Stacking purple mist is part of the game.
Just because it's "part of the game" doesn't automatically make it okay.
Infinites were survivors using obstacles in the game to create a never ending running loop. The obstacles are still in the game but were as i said adjusted.
BNP is still in the game and was tweaked to make it less powerful however still part of the game
Tinkerer 2 was an unforeseen bug that they fixed but the perk itself is still part of the game.
Thus making all of these acceptable by design. However due to player feedback on fun and enjoyment around these perks is when the devs decide to change them.
You can still do infinite loops at some maps with the correct RNG
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NOED can be removed from the game by you yes you just cleanse totems and its never a problem killer doesn't get his late game "crutch" DS is being changed , lets see what they do with it and Insidious for the amount of times i see it in my games i don't care one way or the other about
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://youtu.be/DsRO2_gbq7k?t=6m53s"Get rid of Decisive, Insidious, and NOED and rank would be a lot more skill based."
He is 100% right. DS and NOED are crutch perks for bad players. Killers defend NOED until they are blue in the face but at the end of the day it's there as a comeback mechanic for when you fail, making it a crutch (just like DS). If you need this perk to get kills, accept that you aren't as good a killer as you might think. And if you complain about DS but use NOED you are nothing but a hypocrite.
I agree with him on Insidious only because it makes people play like trolls, not necessarily because it's a crutch. With a few tweaks I think it could be salvaged.
BTW I got to rank 1 with Freddy without using NOED, just incase someone wants to tell me "git gud". Also I'm sure some killer main will say something like "Tru is a bad killer" as a way to dismiss his statements, when the truth is they just can't stand when one of their own actually tells it how it is.
Come at me.
Suddely everyone got to rank 1 as Freddy. Is this a new trend i started?
The game isn´t over until you see the point screen.
Until then everything goes. If the killer wastes a perk slot to have a chance to one hit survivors after the gates have been powered, then thats a strategy. Survivors can easily avoid NOED, if they can stop their gen rush and do some totems.
Survivors asked for a secondary objective, now they ignore it and go mad if the killer gets a comeback.Insidious will be nerfed hard, once every survivor gets Kindred.
Not gonna start about DS. Or maybe a little bit. Survivors love to dc if they get downed and fail their DS skill check. 1 DS isn´t a problem. 4 DS are a problem. If they change DS to only be usable by 1 survivor, then they can keep it the way it is now. But give survivors a warning that more than 1 has DS equipped. So they can change the loadout.
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@Tsulan said:
@thesuicidefox said:
https://youtu.be/DsRO2_gbq7k?t=6m53s"Get rid of Decisive, Insidious, and NOED and rank would be a lot more skill based."
He is 100% right. DS and NOED are crutch perks for bad players. Killers defend NOED until they are blue in the face but at the end of the day it's there as a comeback mechanic for when you fail, making it a crutch (just like DS). If you need this perk to get kills, accept that you aren't as good a killer as you might think. And if you complain about DS but use NOED you are nothing but a hypocrite.
I agree with him on Insidious only because it makes people play like trolls, not necessarily because it's a crutch. With a few tweaks I think it could be salvaged.
BTW I got to rank 1 with Freddy without using NOED, just incase someone wants to tell me "git gud". Also I'm sure some killer main will say something like "Tru is a bad killer" as a way to dismiss his statements, when the truth is they just can't stand when one of their own actually tells it how it is.
Come at me.
Suddely everyone got to rank 1 as Freddy. Is this a new trend i started?
The game isn´t over until you see the point screen.
Until then everything goes. If the killer wastes a perk slot to have a chance to one hit survivors after the gates have been powered, then thats a strategy. Survivors can easily avoid NOED, if they can stop their gen rush and do some totems.
Survivors asked for a secondary objective, now they ignore it and go mad if the killer gets a comeback.Insidious will be nerfed hard, once every survivor gets Kindred.
Not gonna start about DS. Or maybe a little bit. Survivors love to dc if they get downed and fail their DS skill check. 1 DS isn´t a problem. 4 DS are a problem. If they change DS to only be usable by 1 survivor, then they can keep it the way it is now. But give survivors a warning that more than 1 has DS equipped. So they can change the loadout.
No warning. That's what the pre-game chat is for.
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The point of NOED is to punish genrushing.
And yes, genrushing can happens even if you don't camp.
The main issue with NOED is, if a survivor gets caught early and hardcamped, the killer can easily earn 2 kills by usually grabbing another one with NOED as the gates are getting opened.This scenario is indeed, rather annoying and problematic, and should be looked.
About DS : it's bad in every single scenarios. It's just unfun and poorly designed.
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@Runiver said:
The point of NOED is to punish genrushing.
And yes, genrushing can happens even if you don't camp.
The main issue with NOED is, if a survivor gets caught early and hardcamped, the killer can easily earn 2 kills by usually grabbing another one with NOED as the gates are getting opened.This scenario is indeed, rather annoying and problematic, and should be looked.
About DS : it's bad in every single scenarios. It's just unfun and poorly designed.
I agree and i think that NOED is not on DS's level. Crutch yeah. DS level stupid? Once 2 years back yeah. NOT TODAY. No sir. As long as it can be prevented totally from being active at base its not DS level. At all.
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NOED can be permanently and irreversibly shut down before it's activated. DS cannot. They're not on the same level.
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i fantasize...that some day....a game will be released and left unfettered for it's life span. the players will merely have to adapt to what they believe to be overpowered or weak. just...play the ######### game and shut up.1
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@campasaurus said:
i fantasize...that some day....a game will be released and left unfettered for it's life span. the players will merely have to adapt to what they believe to be overpowered or weak. just...play the [BAD WORD] game and shut up.Yeah, how dare players demand the removal of objectively unbeatable exploits like infinite loops.
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@thesuicidefox said:
Come at me.
Hmmm...
Hmmmmmmm...
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...
This is going into my SNAP collection.
And what?
Freddy boi at rank 1?
I'll add you to my 'Kill camp and mori' list now.
You should be the one coming at me.It's not everyday you meet a Nurse like me.
Or is it? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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True, they are not. Though it’s just the premise of idea of “rewarding failure”. Both do the same thing, DS just does it better.Orion said:NOED can be permanently and irreversibly shut down before it's activated. DS cannot. They're not on the same level.
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I think insidious needs a rework but I don't know how they would do it now because Tinkerer does what I thought a new version of insidious should do. I felt Insidious should be a button activation that removes your terror radius for 8-10 seconds. But yeah I hate DS and NOED.
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@SovererignKing said:
Orion said:NOED can be permanently and irreversibly shut down before it's activated. DS cannot. They're not on the same level.
True, they are not. Though it’s just the premise of idea of “rewarding failure”. Both do the same thing, DS just does it better.
Why is NOED considered "rewarding failure"? Game is not finished until you see the point screen.
I mean there are perks specifically for the endgame like Remember Me and Blood Warden.1 -
@Tsulan said:
Why is NOED considered "rewarding failure"? Game is not finished until you see the point screen.
I mean there are perks specifically for the endgame like Remember Me and Blood Warden.Because otherwise Survivors would have to admit that NOED even triggering is their fault, and that late-game builds exist.
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@Orion said:
@Tsulan said:
Why is NOED considered "rewarding failure"? Game is not finished until you see the point screen.
I mean there are perks specifically for the endgame like Remember Me and Blood Warden.Because otherwise Survivors would have to admit that NOED even triggering is their fault, and that late-game builds don't exist.
Oh damn, you are right.
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@SovererignKing said:
True, they are not. Though it’s just the premise of idea of “rewarding failure”. Both do the same thing, DS just does it better.A game mechanic that seems to reward failure isn't bad by design. There is an interesting video about feedback loops in game design on youtube. It explains how and why so called negative Feedback Loops exists. It kinda prevents games from beeing boring or the winning side snowballing the other one.
Noed in my opinion isn't bad in the current state of the game. If all four survivors are still alive by then, then you actually need to be a good killer to catch them all with it, because the totem can be destroyed quite easily and you can still can't be everywhere.
Most of the time it actually only rewards you with one hook against good survivors. Because as soon as they know Noed is in the play, they will play more cautios and either leave as soon as possible, use good loops or search the totem and destroy it.
Noed is a mechanic that actually makes the endgame quite interesting in a situation where one side seemed to have gotten the upper hand. DS on the other hand doesn't have this effect in it's current state. Yes, it helps you after you failed a chase as a survivor and gives you another chance, but you have it at the beginning and it isn't 100% clear if the killer side actually has the upper hand at that point of the game, because we don't know how long it took to down that specific survivors, how many gens are done or how many are sacrificed.0 -
@Tsulan said:
@Orion said:
@Tsulan said:
Why is NOED considered "rewarding failure"? Game is not finished until you see the point screen.
I mean there are perks specifically for the endgame like Remember Me and Blood Warden.Because otherwise Survivors would have to admit that NOED even triggering is their fault, and that late-game builds don't exist.
Oh damn, you are right.
Indeed. When I pointed out that all of the Nightmare's perks are late-game in another thread, all I got in response was a dodge, claiming that he's "more effective" with such and such build, despite the fact that I was only referring to his perks and not his gameplay (since perks are teachable and all, referring to so and so character's perks is literally just referring to the perks).
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