General Discussions
General Discussions
gUys thE deVs aRe suRviVor siDeD!
Honestly though, the new changes sound very fun and I can't wait to test them out. They'll add some new fun aspects to the gameplay and weaker killers will certainly benefit from the breakable wall change. I can't wait to see the new strategies that come from this change and how it will affect play.
Comments
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ThEy oNlY cArE aBoUt SuRvIv0Rz FuN
*switches hatch from survivor sided to killer sided*
*nerfs instaheals*
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3/10 bait
imagine someone thinking these were healthy for the game
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Who cares about breakable walls when gens are still done in no time. Now we can be the kool aid man.
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Can't wait to see this in action though. I just hope it will be well thought out so that it won't render most loops useless.
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Kool Aid man chapter 15 confirmed.
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Ikr.
Killer mains really do look foolish now
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They sound like really survivor sided changes to me. Especially the sabo ones. Those sabo ones really have me worried, sabo crazy survivors are why I quit DBD the first time.
That seemed to have stopped so I started playing again.
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Someone obviously ignored the toolbox update :/
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They overall nerfed Sabo....
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Someone forgot about the toolbox nerfs and buffs to Doctor, Plague and Trapper
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We havent seen it in action dont judge so quickly mate... they said breaking hooks will be very fast.. but i can tell you this if it is useful it will only result in more slugging...
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Again we dont know how its gonna look like (wait for pbe) they also call new hex ruin a lategame perk :D
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It definitely isn't survivor sided at all. It isn't even close. Toolboxes are gone now, Plague got a considerable buff and Doc received another one. Trapper got a nice QOL change, and now that killers can break walls, God loops and likely jungle gyms will be rendered considerably weaker than before. The sabo changes are very good, and because the hooks respawn much faster, they won't be doing much. Not to mention they state it's a very limited amount of hooks you can sabo.
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“The devs are survivor sided”
*Legion exists*
🤐
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madness no longer decays. I dont know why but this excites me more than the new killer. yes, im a doc main -_-
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Are you trying to prove people who say devs are survivor sided right because a lot of legion nerfs also buffed survivor's endurance status effect....
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What? No they didnt.
You will be able to sabo "on the fly" now
So sabo saves are back, but without 99ing hooks
So overall, more useful, but balanced
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You make it sound like these buffs are game breaking. They will make them viable at best. They're just small quality of life updates that were seriously needed.
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Oh no that is definitely a buff. 100%.
Toolboxes are not gone, we don't know the specifics yet but I agree they might prove me wrong, I need more info first. If the numbers are still high on say the % they boost, then it could still be just as if not stronger in a way. It doesn't sound like they are addressing their root issue, but we'll see.....
The specific killer changes are nice for them, but talking killer as a role overall those don't have quite the same level of impact of global changes.
The killers breaking walls we don't know if it's even any good yet, and even if it is it is only on one map, and if it stays that way for like 6-12 months than it isn't really worth thinking about right now.
Listen, I will admit it's too early for me to say it's too survivor sided or anything yet, I'll retract that, but I have legit concern and skepticism because of those sabo changes. I'll have to wait and see before I can really say for sure. If they mess up the numbers on the sabo and toolbox changes is the major factor I think...
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😂😂😂😂😂
All the game has been is nerfing survivors and buffing killers due to you cry babies.
Do your research
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Gens still fly in no time
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We need a map-wide "OH YEAH!".
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Exactly.
That's still good for the game right? I'm not making these buffs sound AMAZING. But thinking that the devs are soooooo survivor sided after a dev post like this is ridiculous. The only thing remotely close to a survivor buff this patch is the Sabotage buff
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I would bet money that breakable walls won’t affect jungle gyms. There’s a pallet in those and the idea is for the killer to break it. It’s how the survivors stay safe.
I personally think this is more for the strongest windows e.g Ironworks. Where it’s a large building with a window that can be abused over and over again.
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Nobody sabo'd because of how tedious it was. This sounds like a huge buff to every perk that uses the wiggle meter as well since they can sabo right in front of the killer without prep.
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Well if you've been here since the game's came out then you've realised that survivors were busted and have since received numerous nerfs.
That's not to say that killers haven't received unwarranted nerfs but saying that survivors have only been buffed and killers have only been nerfed is ridiculous and childish
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One update with minor killer buffs doesn't magically wash away the past 6 months of heavy killer nerfs. So far their survivor pampering far out weights killer pampering, so until we start seeing some more quality of life updates for killers they're still survivor sided.
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90% of this comes down to the specific execution.
Breakable walls for example is amazing depending on where the walls are and how long it takes to break them. But if those factors are wrong it will do more harm than good.
Same goes for the toolbox and sabo changes. The changes are such that we need the numbers in order to properly evaluate them. While I do agree with the general direction (and ESPECIALLY agree with the addon change), we shouldn't try and say if this is a buff or nerf especially to something like Sabo until we've seen how drastic the changes are.
That being said the Plague change and Doctor changes are great. Those ones don't need numbers to evaluate.
Trapper QoL is nice too.
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They made toolboxes go faster and no changes to brand new parts..... As far as the walls, depending how long it takes to break them and how important they are ut could be more.of a time waster. The walls could be good or bad, toolboxes i could argue werent nerf. Faster gen completion, fewer charges, better sabo options, ABLE TO BE KEPT WHEN USED?! I get that the addons are lost but thats still a ridiculous amount of buffing for a few less charges. Meanwhile everyones shouting "SeE sUrViVoRs ArE nErFeD kIlLeRs ArE dUmB!!1!"
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They slightly buffed sabo solo survivors and nerfed harshly SWF sabo squads, which were the biggest offenders.
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OH YEAH
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I don't know... going from 40-second gens to 80-second gens and going from eternally-sabotaged hooks to ones that respawn in 3 minutes are pretty big nerfs for Survivors.
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The update is not live, yet. It can be anything. Walls, probably, will break long loops, but I doubt they will decrease the amount of pallets and windows, so it may make a little difference. probably, it will be a buff to slow killers alike Hag and Huntress.
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I don't consider removal of permanent hooks sabotages to be a nerf as permanent hook sabotages could result in the game becoming unwinnable for a killer and thus become an exploit.
Removal of exploits are not nerfs.
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"Minor" buffs to killers/nerfs to survivors?
Toolboxes are a big deal
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Not how that works. If you start picking and choosing which changes count as nerfs by any method other than strength evaluation then you run into the No True Scotsman Fallacy.
The sabotage mechanic was intentionally added. There was no bug there. So the outcome of utilizing the mechanic to reach an unwinnable state for the Killer is not an exploit. And even if it was, the change used to fix it is still a nerf.
Just like how making deep wounds use the TR instead of the chase mechanic is a nerf.
Or how making the Killers hitbox randomly shrink in the basement is a nerf.
All of these things are nerfs because they make the effected element weaker. The existence of unbeatable strategies surrounding them makes them MORE of a nerf, not less of one.
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So lemme get this right: they buff Trapper, buff Plague, add breakable walls for all killers & nerf Toolboxes and in your ######### head that some how means these are survivor sided changes?
Jesus Christ.
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In my research, survivors cried more about Nurse and Spirit than killers cried about toolboxes, thus that's why they were getting nerfed faster.
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You also have to consider that with sabotages the game wasn't designed around a coordinated play as the mechanic was design with realistically only 1 person doing it a game not all 4 players.
Using a mechanic in an unintended way(All survivors doing it as opposed to one) to gain an advantage is an exploit.
Also no one will argue that moonwalking legion wasn't an exploit as it was using an intended mechanic in unintended way to gain an advantage.
Why I make the difference is that its possible for exploits to be fixed without nerfing a mechanic specifically and if a mechanic is changed solely due to an exploit then its an exploit fix not a nerf.
Also unbeatable strategies aren't meant to exist in the game so their removal can't be considered a nerf due to unbeatable strategies aren't intended.
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Bait is their M/O, lol
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Idk about that one chief
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They are, and there's no denying that. The upcoming changes do nothing to address the multiple balancing issues the game suffers from. They're all qol changes at best.
Post edited by Acromio on4 -
Idk about you, but for every "Nerf toolbox" thread I saw at least 5 "Nerf Nurse" threads.
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No. Moonwalking Legion was not an exploit. Again there is no bug, thus no exploit.
An exploit is just utilizing a bug to your advantage. Anything that is not that is not an exploit no matter how bullshit. You definitionally cannot have an exploit without first having a bug to exploit. Utilizing intended mechanics is just strategy.
Your definition of nerf is exclusive to the point of uselessness, because ultimately when we play a game we don't play the game the devs intended to make, we play the game the devs actually made.
This is why we don't call SWF in general an exploit. Because regardless of how the mechanic ends up being used, the mechanic itself is intended.
And again it still doesn't matter if saboing the entire map was an exploit or not, because the nerf was to ALL sabotogue methods. There is no "check if the entire map is being sabo'ed" line in the code. It's not the intent that makes something a nerf, but the result.
For example. If the devs said that they were buffing Killers by doubling their hitbox size, would this be a buff or a nerf?
Obviously it would be a nerf, because it would make it far harder for them to loop and would provide negligible benefits by comparison. The devs saying it's a buff is irrelevant because that's not the metric used.
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Also, until stated otherwise you don't actually know what the devs intended. How do you know the devs didn't intend for unbeatable strategies to exist?
Sure you'd expect them to not intend for it. But short of them outright telling you it's impossible to be sure.
Like take a strategy such as:
Plague holding Vile Purge for the entire game to abuse the fact that she moves at 115% while it's fully charged.
This was possible in the PTB but was quickly patched out.
Is this an exploit fix or a nerf? And how do you tell the difference objectively?
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An exploit is using something in an unintended way to your advantage(Taking full advantage of something even if its not intended aka "make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource)."):
Nerfing instant heals because they were too strong for their intended effect is a nerf.
Nerfing nurse for using her power being too strong in the intended way is a nerf.
Removing infinite mending legion because it was caused by a bugged interaction between 2 addons isn't a nerf its literally a bugfix.
This also goes for deep wounds where the mechanic if used intentionally is fine and was changed so if used intentionally it wouldn't result in any noticeable reduction in power(At first anyways they gave up on it once oni came out).
If its being nerfed because of it being used in its intended way is too strong its a nerf.
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DBD devs you can't please this community. Good try though.
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Hmm then DS and NOED should be next
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Well i agree on DS(the locker interaction making the killer eat the stun or wait a min is clearly not intended)/
I am curious what is the exploit with noed?
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with what you said there you countered all the above statements trying to make fun of killer mains that acknowledge that the devs are survivor sided. They won't obviously do anything to normal loops but rather to those that overpowerdly stupid, like they break your ######### chase and you get more vaults than you should.
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