question to old dbd players
Comments
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Well exactly my points.
See what your saying is something based of your subjective reasoning. Much like mine but its based at least SOMEWHERE in information that we have. I've done my best to provide the evidence to rationalise my point.
What I was doing was paying you a compliment, not necessarily agreeing, while appreciating nuance (which is largely lost on this forum).
I mean lets be honest, unless we get leaks or are a fly on the wall were not going to ever have more information to base our opinions on more than we currently do. But at least from my perspective I've done my best to present an evidence based argument, while watching the majority in this thread offer exactly zip zero nothing.
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I don't, try again.
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Well yeah, the chase stops, but you cant see the survivior. By moowalking I walking backwards and you cant track using Bloodhound or Predator like that. Its a fair tradeoff imo, you risk losing the track of the survivior, and they can use that to hide or quickly change directions. It kind of like you punish PWYF users, the moment they drop the chase, you change directions and stop running. Or how you counter the Spirit.
This is quite simple to fix. Just make the "chase detection area" a bit higher, so it detects the survivior even when looking down. You could still walk backwards while looking down, but its harder. If it was still an issue then you could reduce the speed of walking bavkwards by 5%, or tie the chase mechanic to direction of the movement instead of the camera.
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Pwyf has nothing to do with basic attack, you loose a token for an "offensive action". Bubbas Interaktion with that is weird, idk if that is intented, but if you destroy a pallett with his chainsaw you will loose a token, so it's not like his Power has no effect in pwyf whatsoever.
Same applies to Huntress, hatchets are obv an offensive Action, your video was released shortly after Huntress was added to the game, so it was probably bug, just like Plague's corrupted purge didn't loose stacks in PTB which was fixed for her Release.
The difference between Legion and Nurse is, that feral frenzy can't down people, so you have to use your basic attack at some point.
I understand, that you are frustated about the change to freral frenzy and you can definitly argue, if that was necessary, but it is not inconsistent with other Killers because most of there special attacks doesn't count as basic attack, you wan't get save the best for last Stacks with a chainsaw or a hatchets, as far as I know.
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Abit of misconception here... You gave 2 examples of PWYF, which doesnt specify basic attack but rather any offensive action. Basically any action that can do damage will cost you a stack, while actions that dont directly do damage dont. Plague's green puke for example doesnt do damage, just causes the broken status effect, so no stacks lost for green puke. If you swap to red puke however, you'll lose stacks.
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I get that since those are the only stats available, your trying to make use of what you have, but... that might be more hindrance than help. Using the Nurse as an example of this, we know that at least for OLD Nurse, those stats dont reflect her power. Those stats are the result of using an average of players who have alot of Nurse experience and can do REALLY well with her, with players that are new with Nurse having trouble landing a single hit all game (like me, lol). It would be similar to if your trying to do a poll of golf scores, but include 5 year olds on a put put golf course with Tiger Wood's scores. The results will be skewed. This is what we call outliers and its always good to try to separate out the outliers to get a more accurate average (says my 4th grade math teacher, lol).
With many of our other killers, we end up with addons that heavily skew the results because the results gained by using said addons dont properly reflect the power of the character. The difference between my games of Clown using Red Head's pinky finger versus using more tame things like reload speed addons is pretty vast. While I understand that these addons are infact part of the game, it can give a very false sense of where the character is overall. In the case of Clown, the instadown addon solves a problem Clown has, being players using the speedboost from the first hit to get to supersafe locations (ironworks window, Asylum main build, ect.). Instadown=no speed boost. If the pinkyfinger Clown catches you out of position, youll pay for it.
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I know that when Pleague throws red vomit, it doesn't lose stack. But what does Legion use when attacking while using his special power? In older versions, these other killers would not lose stacks because they were not basic attacks, but from now on they became basic attacks.
Infectious Fright says basic attack on its advantage. However, this advantage comes into effect when he uses saw or oni power.In particular, this advantage is normally erroneous. Because when I held someone or when I found someone in the closet, I realized that they had informed me about their place.
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I don't get what you are trying to say, Red vomit will loose a stack and I'm also pretty sure that they changed the Interaktion between Huntress and pwyf pretty quickly after her release and not recently, because a ranged Killer at 125% Movement speed, that doesn't loose token for his ranged attack would be pretty broken. About the basic attack thing in General, I think it is a way of making the game more consitent, which the Devs started more recently, that's way some Killers used to have weird Interaktion with perks, like Noed not aktivating on hatchets but on chainsaws etc.
Dude, you Infos are pretty outdated, IF was buffed, they removed the basic attack condition, that is why it works with chainsaws etc.
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Also the Argument that Legion does use his normal weapon in feral frenzy not a chainsaw or something like that doesn't count, pig for example is also using her normal blade in dash and it isn't considered a basic attack.
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After reading your first sentence, I do not prefer to read other sentences. So why not test it out?
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How many hours do you really play in this game? I feel like I'm discussing with beginners, my God ...
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2 kills 2 escape is not a unit of metric, what nonsense do you write there? It is their balance goal and not a unit of metric.
No not killers it is one killer that is at the 70% and that is about it, stop acting like killers are the skins as are survivors. The lowest is sitting at 43%.
The game is being balanced around people who are unable to hit great skillchecks, that is how easy the game is as survivor. The meme of survivor just having to hold m1 and win became a sad reality, because of horrible survivor mains like you who make skilled survivors like me facepalm.
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Please show me another utube vid that you subsequently disagree with yourself over <3
Its is a unit of metric, even if you don't like it.
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@LordGlint told you the exact same thing, do you believe him?
First I'm on PC so if you're on console that's not going to work, secondly, I don't know if I wan't to waste more time with you than I already did because you fail to see one important thing: Even if Plague wouldn't loose Stacks (btw, even the Wiki says, she does) it wouldn't prove a point because pwyf talks about "offensive action" not about "basic attacks".
Post edited by SunaIIanu on0 -
LOL, I'm playing since December 2017, but sure I'm a beginner because the Devs don't use the logic your think the do/should. (I'm playing piggy with stbfl so I can tell you her dash is 100% not a base attack.)
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Well I no longer get excited about new skins.
Slightly oversaturated.
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omg... I think I will not argue with you any more ;D gg
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Again I don't disagree with you, but by that logic you could apply it to yourself, perhaps you're the 'hindrance' here?
You mention nurse:
He doesn't play DBD anymore but back in the day 72hrs was a great streamer/survivor who didn't play toxic and moved onto killer that he also played exceptionally well, nurse included. He tried to give healthy perspective on the game. Compare that to the Trutalent/Hexy's who whinge and complain when they don't get a 4k.
Nurse was released when there were still infinites in the game, REAL infinites too, not the pseudo infinites we have now that bad killers hold onto.
It was never officially announced as such but it seemed fair to say that nurse was released to hard counter infinites. Which it did. People like Tru enjoyed nurse, mainly because it made 4k's easier for him. 72hrs believed that nurse was a mistake. That it fundamentally broke the survivor game and didn't do what the devs wanted which was to stop people complaining about infinites.
I agree with 72hrs, nurse should never have been released. But Tru and others liked nurse and have threatened to leave the game because of nerfs etc etc. What you seem to arguing is finding a sweet spot to keep everyone happy with nurse. I'm telling you I don't care. Nurse broke the survive mechanics and should die in a hole, if it stays a 2nd rate killer, all the better for it. It should never have been released to begin with.
You might think that stance is a hindrance, but I think the hindrance here is the bias' that have played out since launch. Like the release of a broken killer.
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Red vomit DOES lose stacks, green vomits doesnt
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It is not, never was. A balance goal no more no less. Good with the selective reading again same as usual, dumb points made, dumb points debunked and all that is left is emojis coming from you and that wraps it up.
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I mean, you can read all I told you in the wiki, or try it out ingame, but if you prefer to stay ignorant I can't stop you.
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I said that already. I'm sorry already if I made a mistake in my post. I can sometimes make false sentences in English.
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every wiki information is not correct but okke
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As far as me being a hindrence is showcasing nurse's power vs nurse's stats...youd be 100% correct. I have a hard time personally doing anything with the character due to her high skill floor (a high amount of skill needed to do the bare minimum). Theres plenty of people like me that drag her stats down because we cant land a single hit all game. I'm using this as 1 example as why the stats that include outliers (in this case I would be a negative outlier) can't be taken at face value.
Putting nurse off to the side for a moment, I know other killers can be played VERY well as long as you have certain perks or addons. Using PWYF on Bubba for example is a completely difference experience than if someone had Bubba without the perk. Bubba's addons do next to nothing to help him with his glaring flaws, but since PWYF exists... it can be used as a reason to say the character is fine instead of a perk can be used to prop him up. The devs have already said they wanted to look at Bubba, or at least his addons...so theres hope there.
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That's true, but you can still try that ingame.
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That's fine, idc if they rework bubba.
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If English isnt your native language, i'm not trying to put you down or anything. Im merely correcting your post since you said the polar opposite, that red vomit does NOT lose stacks. Heres a video post of someone who apparently wanted to test it. They used green vomit without losing stacks at the beginning, then used red vomit at 3:30.
PWYF loses stacks off offensive actions, rather than debuffing actions. As far as your question on Legion goes, FF stabs directly injure survivors, so it loses PWYF stacks from FF stabs.
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I know that red vomiting won't lose a pile. If I made a mistake in my sentence, I would be glad if you arrange it in a way you can understand. This is now valid in Legion because when feral frenzy is active, it does not lose stacks but of course I look at it from the bad side. Save the Best for Last, Franklin's Demise and Dark Devotion means it will no longer work. You understand what I mean and I don't want to spend more time on this topic.
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Red vomit DOES lose a stack of PWYF
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it removes skill checks while repairing with toolbox
and toolbox repairs take few seconds now anyways
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The fact that survivor had more infinites back then doesn't mean it become harder at all. ######### playing survivors is easy and i play solo not in swf.
They implemented windows blocking after 3 vaults (which is too much IMO).
You can't make it to that pallet? use DH to give you that boost and reach it to loop the killer for another minute.
You are being tunneled? Let the killer grab you and hit DS to make him chase you for another minute or the whole match if you loop well.
Got hooked at the endgame? no problem get unhooked with BT and get your free escape.
Got injured when there is 1 gen left? no problem get healed and a free sprint burst by your team doing that gen.
The killer left you in the ground while hes chasing another one? Get up with unbreakable and erase all the effort that the killer did to down you.
And i can continue for hours... Just one last thing, the 2 kills 2 escapes in high ranks is a lie.. like the cake in Portal.
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English is apparently not the first language for both of us, so I guess that led to missunderstandings, but I'm glad that LordGlint cleared this up :)
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Please don’t make me cry. I hate it.
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- Introducing crystal clear laser 4k view across 85 % of the map with patch 1.4, no more blurry depth of field
- Introducing all kind of wallhack aura reading perks for killers
- nerfing survivor perks all over the place
- removing more and more pallets. making jungle gymns easily accessible to killers
- blocking more and more map windows and vaults with wooden planks instead of really redesigning badly designed maps
- not listening to both side of the game for absolutely boring and dull game mechanics like camping and tunneling and gen rushing and disconnects - all easily solvable with appropriate game mechanics. Instead they focus on developing GESTAPO like enforcement mechanics that keep people in boring and annoying games
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Idk, seems still like an exploit to me, even if it is harder to do, but I have to admit, I don't think I have ever seen somebody walking completly backwards, I only saw people looking on the ground or walking sideways. Maybe it's best to agree that we disagree on that point :)
Hmm, interesting idea, but I think it could be a double-edged sword, because it will make breaking chase harder for the Killer (which could maybe be a slight nerf to pwyf) but also harder for survivors, and breaking chase is sometimes beneficial for the survivor, so I could imagine, that some people might not be happy about that. So I think it is a change you need to test to evaluate it.
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Aside from what's already been mentioned.. the lack of interesting add ons for new killers has been practically non existent.
Myers - 2: Scratched Mirror & Judith's Tombstone
Pig - 1: Amanda's letter
Plague - 2: Iridescent Seal & Black Incense
Legion - 1: Iridescent Button
Spirit - 2: Prayer Beads was deleted so that leaves Dried Cherry Blossom & Juniper Bonsai
Freddy - 2: Pill Bottle & Class Photo
Oni - 1: Renjiro's Bloody Glove
etc etc
Compare that to Hag - 6: can teleport to any trap, deafens survivors, phantasms have collision, no cue trap was triggered, causes hindered status & moves quicker, no heartbeat when trap is triggered.
Where is the creativity? Everything now revolves around power recharge, power duration, and fatigue reduction. Nothing even comparable to Hag's add ons.
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Missing the Events. Power will bounce back and forth from Survivor to Killer, but the Events were really awesome.
I still remember the joy from, I think it was the 2nd Anniversary, when they did a week of Daily Challenges for Killers and Survivors to do so that we could get some nice extras. Weapons for Killers, some skins for Survivors. That entire week drew the community together for a bit, and tbh, it was some of the most fun games I have played.
It doesn't have to be frequent, but having special Events for players will bring the community together rather than pushing it apart like so many changes have done in the recent past. They also tell the players "Hey, we appreciate your continued support, so here's a nice thank you." Double BP is nothing. Give us something good, doesn't even have to be good in regard to the lore, so that we know you really care about us as consumers of your product.
Thanks goes both ways in the world. But someone has to start it off. It doesn't need any special prizes, although those are of course appreciated, but give us some neat themed event with cool looking eye candy instead of the same ole stuff we play with now.
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I disagree that Killers are getting easier and Survivors are getting harder. But I agree the complaining is getting a bit much. As a Survivor main I basically do whatever I want all game.Basically nothing matters. Playing a Killer is just stressful and gives me anxiety. But I'm weak or whatever. 🤷
" SB now is mediocre at best where as NOED is still a high tier perk."
LMAO! The best exhaustion perk in the game is mediocre? Okay. Sure.
"Killers now are up around 70% kills due to the trajectory of the game and the devs metric system, unless you feel their metric system is bad, in which case they can undo all the changes I've just mentioned...."
Everyone needs to stop with this. Just STOP. You, and so many others (the 42 upvotes on this post is mindblowing) have no idea what the data released showed or proved or what it even means.
The fact this information is constantly brought up as some sort of "proof" that all Killers are strong is pathetic and hilarious. The fact that I see "70%!" all the time when it comes to the data just shows how much people love to spread misinformation around here to perpetuate victimhood of their "side" and keep the "us vs them" narrative alive. Its sickening.
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I would have to say the archives. This game has felt like more of a chore than a joy to play. Or like a failure of a project than something to do in my off time. I just hate being on a time limit lol. The challenges and way to earn extra BP is nice, but it has definitely added stress.
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It's not a lie, there's just more too it, according to the devs. Which is still better than half the posts here that amount to 'because I say so'.
Also my point was talking about how the devs have created entitlement over time. You mention things like DS without giving it context and its changes over time (which have been alot).
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Most boring change? I'll list a few. The rift and the death of in game events; the killer emblem system; the change to killer adept achievements(although this is actually stressful than it is boring) I think that's it.
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What have so many players something against the rift?
I love it as a story loving guy. Of course some of the tasks are very well... Not that good, but the concept itself - I like.
Also nobody needs to do them. The bp gain is in this game is anyways high enough if you give yourself a bit time and not try to build rome in day.
... So... Its imo a feature that brings fun for one side and the other can totally ignore it.
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SB is the best exhaustion perk...... lol.
PLEASE provide some kind of quantitative for that statement.
Off the top of my head Lithe is better because you control when it procs, BL is better because you can control when it procs and have a vertical drop benefit.
SB is the poor mans exhaustion perk.
Do you not own dlc?
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I mean it does serve it's purpose for high rank survivors (or newer players), but for players like myself, it's eh. I have no proper incentive to go find the killer for a chase other than boredom from pressing a single button all game. I don't know if I wan't to waste more time with you than I already did because you fail to see one important thing: Even if Plague wouldn't loose Stacks (btw, even the Wiki says, she does)
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In fact, I read the any attack text as basic attack. I don't have much time to watch videos and I'm sorry again.
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Yeah, hiding nurses event outfit in the paid track instead of just as an event item was super scummy.
The archives are cool, they should have the event ######### in THERE, but no, they had to tie in their battlepass to make more money when they charge $10/20 for a "new" look for a character.
Rift is just a boring money grind.
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Where did you get a 70% from I'm looking at the chart they released and only freddy has a 70%. He doesn't represent the killrate of most games. Also alot of threads from killers talk about map sizes vs killers with no map pressure,the upcoming sabo change, and gen times and toolboxes. That isn't being entitled it honest questions
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Which only really exists on the forums, amongst people who refuse to play both sides.
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I don't think you're being entitled, your questions are well reasoned and not overtly emotive.
You're looking at ALL ranks, not red ranks. That's why nurse is so low, because its a hard to master killer, despite what people on the forums tell you.
You want to look at red ranks because that's where established players are and the spot where devs focus most of their balance attempts according to them.
Sure, upcoming changes will change things. My comments have been the trajectory of the game since 2016.
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