Lets not pretend NOED isn't a reward for bad killers
Im sorry but its not a punishment on survivors for not doing totems its literally just a reward for a killer who performs bad. Its only a clutch perk made for 1k end game face camps and thats really it. If it stopped being a hex and actually took effort and something for the killer to activate it it would be great but all it does is give you a kill for free :/ I keep seeing people say "Well just cleanse totems!" Okay well I'd like to present the argument of when someone jumps into a locker with DS just open the locker! It gets rid of DS and you don't have to wait 60 seconds to chase that survivor again! Both wasting time to cleanse totems on a chance the killer is running a perk is a huge waste of time and could cost you a game same as a locker DS could so why is one perfectly fine but the other is a huge detrimental problem that the entire community must rally against?
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Sprint Burst, Ds, BT, Adrenaline, and more .............
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Let’s not pretend that ds rewards survivors who fail at looping after being unhooked. I guarantee that survivors who use ds have never 5 gen looped a red rank killer btw
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does that mean you admit that ds needs to be changed?
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People give NOED less of a hard time because it's like the only real second chance perk that a killer has in comparison to the survivor side that has DS, unbreakable, dead hard, etc. NOED and all the perks I just listed are really strong and requires no effort from the person using the perks. I don't get mad at a killer who uses NOED because how am I better? Im over here running dead hard which makes up for any bad play I could do during a loop and extend the chase for even longer then it should have been. Maybe when some of these other second chance perks get looked into I would see NOED as a problem but as it is, its fine.
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if you cant spend 1 to 2 minutes of your trial cleansing totems, you shouldnt be complaining about NOED.
do.
the.
bones.
it literally has nothing but benefits for you! you get BP, emblem points and can deny the killer a decent endgame perk!
wanna know what the first thing is i do as a survivor when i enter a trial? yeah. i do the bones. and i can easily take down 3 totems in just a minute or maybe two (depends on the map, really), imagine how fast you could get them done if everyone was to do them, instead of only focussing on genrushing the killer and literally leaving a totem uncleansed that is right next to the gen they work on in plain line of sight.
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I disagree based on the devs own idea of two kills and two escapes as the norm. This means that in a perfect world through devs eyes, 5 gens will be done every game.
This means Noed isn't for bad killers but just par for the course since all gens should be done no matter what, meaning survivors should always assume it's in play. Do some bad killers use it to get kills they otherwise wouldn't have, yes. However it's not like good killers can't use it for backup when gens get done even though they played well. I don't care if you're a god tier killer, you're going to have games where all the gens are finished sometimes.
Also, plenty of perks give you info and other stuff for free without having to "earn" it anyway.
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2 kills and 2 escapes is the statistical aim. It doesn't mean 5 gens will be done it means on average two survivors will escape not exactly two will escape.
However I do agree, I wish the game objectives and points were centered around killer domination and horror and not a sport draped in a horror aesthetic.
Edit: I could be wrong about the 2-2. Did they say 2 escapes should be the norm across all games at all ranks or the norm for every game or the average outcome?
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Except it literally is a punishment for survivors ignoring totems? The killer doesn't have the power to force NOED to activate, it is in the survivors hands. Don't want NOED to activate? Do totems. Don't ignore totems then start crying when you die to NOED.
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Literally just do totems
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Literally just take DS stun
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Just take the DS stun! If you can't take 5 seconds out of your trial being stunned, you shouldn't be complaining about DS.
Take.
The.
Knife.
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Yeah it does need to be changed
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It's a Hex that should be cleansed before it's even activated any experienced survivor will search for totems at the last gen.
Its not a reward its a perk Just like any other stop being salty.
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Never said DS was okay or doesn't reward a survivor for bad play.
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you cant compare these two at all tho...
i dont even know how you got the idea to do it, but it really does not work.
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DS is on a 60 second timer that shouldn't be activated by not tunneling a survivor off hook. Any experienced killer will just take the stun. Its not a reward its a perk just like any other stop being salty.
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But it's not just a 5 second stun. It's a five second stun and that survivor is back into the game and doing gens if you don't decide to chase them, or a 5 second stun and a god knows how long chase depending on the map and tile spawns if you do chase them. DS can completely prevent a killer from snowballing or stop it if they have already begun snowballing. Getting off a gen for a minute or so while the other survivors are on gens most likely isn't going to cost you the game, unlike picking up DS and taking the stun.
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Not that I even like noed but let’s stop pretending that second chance perks reward good survivors
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I didn't mention DS but I never had an Issue with it. I never tunnel the one off the hook I always go after the one that unhooked.
To explain if the survivor that was just unhooked runs away its more often to a team mate to be healed that's two people not working on gens its a win for me.
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Make it so DS has multiple uses and deactivates after a survivor performs any action but vaulting and throwing down pallets and I will gladly take it.
NOED is a punishment for you not doing totems. DS is meant to be a punishment for the Killer tunneling survivors, but at the moment is a punishment for the Killer hooking survivors in general. If you've got time to do gens or heal, you're not being tunneled.
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Oh it absolutely IS a punishment on Survivors for not doing totems. So much so that it's become an unspoken requirement to do them. Besides, you can normally tell who's using it by their game play, so it's really your own fault if you get caught by it.
Add to that the new hex perk being brought in with Deathslinger, and it's pretty clear that protecting totems is more paramount now, then ever BECAUSE people cleanse in prep for NOED.
From the sounds of it, you're one of those angry gen-rushers that gets annoyed because you hid the whole match only to get caught by NOED and left behind/camped, which sucks, but can be countered easily. It's not even smart to play that way, since it punishes you by taking away one of your emblems completely if you never encountered the Killer during a trial, but I digress.
As has been stated in other comments in this thread, NOED is a second chance perk for Killers, particularly against SWF teams. There are maps like Lampkin Lane that have excessively abused locations that make it nearly impossible to get a downed Survivor to a hook without IG or Agitation. Survivors that know this abuse it to force Killers to leave them and lose a hook, or waste time and lose gens.
Perks like NOED help to deal with time wasting tactics like this, gen rushing, and rescue squads that use exhaustion perks and body blocking to escape and deny kills. Why do you think slugging, tunneling, camping, and Mori's are abused so frequently? Survivor bias has forced Killers to adapt in order to have a chance. When was the last time you actually saw a red ranked Killer? We're few and far between, and it takes forever to get there, yet there are red ranks Survivors in practically every match now. Perks like NOED are essential to try and keep a balance, lacking as it usually is.
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DS also can't be deactivated by literally just holding a button for 14 seconds.
NOED is a high risk, high reward perk, like all Hex perks. With it, you essentially only have 3 perks until the Endgame. Survivors have a method of disabling NOED from the beginning of the trial without completing their primary objective and its effects are only present at the trial's end. If a survivor finds the totem, you only have 3 perks total throughout the trial.
DS is a low risk, high reward perk. The Killer has no method of disabling it from the beginning of the trial without completing their primary objective and its the presence of its effects are at the survivor's discretion. If you use it early or mid game, you force the Killer to waste time by either avoiding you in a chase, slugging you (which opens up the possibility of Unbreakable or being revived by teammates), or eating the stab. If you use it at Endgame, you can very well reward your entire team with an opportunity to escape the trial as the killer takes the stun. DS has an incredible amount of benefits over NOED and has practically no downsides for doing so, outside of having 3 perks for the entire game should you choose to use it early on.
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I don't run any obsession perks as a killer so when someone is the obsession, I'll just slug every player after they get unhooked (only if they choose to not leave the vicinity when I return) and then hook them again. 2-3 players every match usually run DS. And it's def annoying when one with DS hops in a locker mid chase and expects me to grab them. I'll just stand there and wait 60 secs until it's time grab them, hook them, then camp them for that what I consider to be toxic play.
They typically DC in the locker :)
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You really can easily compare them since they both are just perks that are relied on for when you mess up rather than getting good and both are majorly unfun, majorly unskillful, and the counters to both is basically ending the game for your team. Taking 80 seconds (adding distance between totems) and giving it to the killer is extremely detrimental thats why ruin was so amazing because it gave the killer an extra minute to do whatever and snowball the game.
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because noed can be completely turned off and ds cant and each survivor can have ds, the killer is playing against a clock so them wasting time is way more detrimental
and the number of games where noed went off and lasted longer than 30 seconds is probably less than 5% for me even lower for noed getting more than 1 kill
lets not pretend adrenaline isnt a reward for bad survivors... it will literally wait to activate if the survivor is on hook or being carried
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So your calling the survivors who use ds noobs?
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And NOED isn't just a 14 second M1 its 80 seconds being handed to the killer to which they can down survivors, force survivors off gens, apply immense pressure, and leave almost no one on any gens. You're basically giving the killer an additional gen by cleansing totems due to the added time.
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Adrenaline isn't bad if you played well. The only time Adrenaline is a problem is if you've already lost the game and 4 survivors are still alive at that point just take the L.
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That's the point though. The goal of the killer is to apply pressure, force them to do other objectives like Altruism, Chest-Searches, Totems, etc. It's why it's apart of the game. You don't even need all 4 survivors looking for totems, it can be one. Hell they even gave you a perk that heals you automatically if you had cleared a totem to slow down Gen rushers and take on the other (minor) objectives in the game.
On top of that, NOED isn't only for bad killers. I've gone up against killers who never needed it because they demolished everyone 2-3 gen pops in. It's also utilized specifically for endgame builds.
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In the words of The Trapper.
"Maybe you do bones next time"
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NOED takes 80 seconds to deactivate DS only takes 60. Against a killer who doesn't tunnel you're left with 3 perk slots all game, Killers have a method to make sure DS never activates AT ALL they don't even have to disable it they just have to not tunnel the unhooked survivor. The presence of NOED is at the killers discretion until after the game is over or its served its purpose. If you equip it at all survivors are either forced to hand the killer 80 seconds of free time or sacrifice one person at end game.
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Maybe take the stab next time
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And the goal of the survivor is to not get hooked and thats all DS does so whats the problem
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Not once did I mention DS in my comment. In fact I don't have a problem with DS
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I'd gladly remove noed from the game if DS went with it.
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You don't have to do every single hex totem to deactivate NOED. Use your eyes and find the one that's burning. If you aren't doing the totems until the Endgame, that is 100% your fault. You're not "handing the Killer free time", you're fulfilling your secondary objective and not just unga bunga'ing through your first. God forbid you actually have to use some brain cells and strategize in a match.
The issue with DS is that you will run into it even if you're not tunneling. Survivor gets unhooked, you chase the unhooker and down them and hook them. You run into the survivor who got unhooked who is now working on a gen and you are forced to slug them because they still have DS even though you weren't tunneling anyone. And because DS lasts 60 seconds and the time for a lone survivor to complete a generator without a toolbox is 80 seconds, they can very well do an entire gen with a teammate while also having a get out of jail free card if the Killer dares to pull them off of it.
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Pretty sure that's what killers do already anyway. You say that as if DS gets nerfed or something.
And I don't think many care if some people like you think that NOED is "for bad killers". If they want to use them , they can. Same as you can use DS.
You clearly didn't play killer much , or at all , so I suggest you try playing killer.
But if you "don't like playing killer" then you shouldn't talk about what's OP and what is "for bad killers" cause you got no idea how it is to be on the other side.
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i don't really have a problem with noed or ds. but like you said ds has the potential to be abused which is when i have a problem with. and when there is a game mechanic that can be abused, players will abuse it.
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ORLY, think about your DS and other perks. :P Use actual skill to survive.
and its the only counter to Adrenaline.
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NOED is a risk v reward perk as most totems someone will walk past. If it activates and you walked past one then you do only have yourself to blame.
If the killer isn't playing that well or versing those better then the survivors should have lots of time to do the totems and still escape easily.
The perk is in the survivors hands wether or not it can activate. I wouldn't say it rewards bad killers but instead rewards a killer for a lack of survivors forward planning.
It comes down to having the same mindset as a few other perks. If everyone went in always expecting it then its rare it will activate.
Post edited by twistedmonkey on3 -
Who would ever pretend that NOED is fine? Its common sense that this perk is the worst design in game.
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Again more survivor bias. Noed at least punishes survivors who gen rush.
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Appeals to some unknown majority that you claim agrees with you is not an argument.
FACT: NOED is completely countered by survivor actions if 5 totems are cleansed.
FACT: Survivors have a perk (small game), and an addon (map) to aid them in this task.
FACT: Killers using NOED run effectively three perks until endgame, giving them 75% perk effectiveness and an inherent disadvantage until endgame if using NOED, there is risk in running it. Meanwhile all survivor second chance perks have no such drawback.
FACT: Even if you make it to endgame and someone is downed by NOED, survivors, assuming they didn't derp and immediately open the gate, have ample time to find the lit totem, disable it, complete the rescue and escape. Or just leave that one survivor, as you are not entitled to a 4 escape in the first place.
Spare us your bad faith argument tactics, that second grade crap is just painful to watch.
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50/50 player here. If I can take a DS stun, deal with people using borrowed time to unhook in my face, deal with dead hard extending loops, AND deal with the survivor objective being easier in general... you can run small game (or detective's hunch) and cleanse dull totems. I haven't seen a NOED in my game in ages. Know why? Because I run Detective's Hunch and break totems. But that would require you to deviate from the patented lazy survivor build of DH, DS, BT, Adren. So there's that.
Anyways. The killer sacrifices an entire perk slot for (possible) endgame strength since the perk can be removed by the opposing side. No survivor perks can be removed without killing the survivor, so be happy you can even stop NOED in the first place. Get over hating on this perk like a typical "survivor main" and do the ######### bones.
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You're proving everyone's point here. Instead of wanting to take time to make sure the perk doesnt activate, you use whataboutism to compare it to DS. DS is always a threat and even punishes you if all four survivors run it, and you happen to snowball because they made mistakes. Stop acting like DS is used purely to stop tunneling. It's used as a 60 second immunity perk.
And the devs already spoke on NOED. I don't think you'll be able to bully them into a nerf this time.
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I love these kinds of posts, they always make me laugh/cringe since the OP's usually don't understand the fundamental flaw in their logic:
"NOED doesn't reward killers for playing poorly, it rewards killers for survivors laziness."
There are 5 totems in each map, and each totem takes a base of 12 seconds to cleanse making the maximum total cleansing time for 1 survivor 60 seconds of the match. What's more, the totems reward 1k-1.5k in BP for cleansing, the majority of maps make their whereabouts easy to spot, survivors have multiple perks and tools that will reveal totem locations/incentivize them to cleanse totems, and there are 4 survivors that can each cleanse a totem at any given time making the hunt for totems much less time consuming than the max possible 60 seconds.
So with all of this working against NOED, why does it ever get a chance to activate at all, much less in SO MANY GAMES that survivor mains come to the forums almost daily to blast the devs with complaints about it?
Answer: Survivors are too lazy to be bothered with "Doing Bones."
They'd rather focus on the core objective instead of taking a few seconds off of it to prevent a killers perk that has the potential to wipe them all out in the last 2 minutes of the game. You can't blame Killers for taking advantage of survivors laziness at all when It's so easy to prevent, and yet it's still public enemy No.1 to all survivors because of how effective it is when it gets to activate, but in truth, the survivors only have themselves to blame if it does. The average Trial last for 10 mins, and they can't afford to spend 12-24 seconds per survivor to ensure a stronger chance of escaping just in-case the killer has it? With NOED becoming increasingly more prevalent since the Ruin nerf, It's a wonder why the survivors haven't adapted to expect it! Even if you/your team manages to cleanse all of the dull totems against a killer that doesn't have it, with the BP you gain, and knowledge that you are playing it "better safe than sorry", what genuine reason do you have to avoid doing it? I'm not really sorry to say this but, survivors, you reap what you sow... and that's the point of NOED.
Please stop coming to the forums all butt-hurt and demanding nerfs just because you and your team were just too damn lazy.
Post edited by TWiXT on0 -
Fact one: Which has absolutely no necessity for survivors objective, and is just time wasting, even detrimental, for just the slight chance that a killer relies on that crutch perk.
Fact two: killers have perks to aid totem cleansing.
Fact three: survivors using WGLF the equivalent to BBQ are also running three perks by default. Or headon which may be unused the entire game.
Fact four: the time needed to look at all totem spawns is limited, also its nonexistent if you got hooked near the totem, which a killer would do if hes not to derp, also Killers arent entitled to get a kill for doing nothing at the end.
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@kate_best_girl you contradict yourself. You say take the knife and DS needs to be nerfed. Pick a point.
And this is simply your opinion, not everyone's and not the only truth. Take it as slowdown perk. If you don't take the slowdown, you gotta take the NOED. Same on Plague addon for example. If you don't cleanse, you risk to expose your aura all the time. That's why builds are hidden. And if you say "take the knive" btw you can't complain about NOED. Same argumentation on both sides but different outcome? K, cherry picking I guess.
And not "every experienced killer will take the stun". An experienced killer will read the situation and know if a DS will stop his pressure and flip the coin. And DS takes 120 seconds to deactivate. It triggers twice. And knowing of DS it can affect your gameplay by knowing that you are invulnerable, it is not a wasted perk slot if it does not trigger. If you don't take advantage of that, it is your fault. Btw if one person runs DS or whatever obsession perk, even if noone runs it but the killer has one, the killer needs to play around that for every survivor. The pure existence of the perk in the game affects almost all killer games. I know that the same counts for NOED, just want to make sure you are aware of that effect of DS.
As summary to this: you just pick whatever you want to see, there is completely no reflection or bigger sight on anything in what you write. It's like when you had to take a body block, you just see that you are injured now, and not that the other survivor is still just injured and not downed, so this scene is a loss for you. And most of your arguments are just randomly thrown in, not even related to each other. Concluding: if you just want to hate NOED, pls don't try to argue that everyone has to agree to your opinion. You got enough arguments back which you just ignore. This is not a base for a discussion
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Key words “ red rank killer “ looping is meant to waste time, not to escape smh how do people still not know that
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I take the Stab everytime. I laugh everytime a survivor uses it so early. Save it for egc.
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