Lets not pretend NOED isn't a reward for bad killers
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Do you main survivor? Do you wait for the killer to force you out so you can t bag at the exit gates? Do you think freddy and doc are op? Do you use dh ds bt adren?
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and these are the questions you need to answer correct to have good treatment around pro players
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Explain to me how do you die to a killer that is so bad he facecamps with noed? Nobody can cleanse the one lit totem?
You should talk to the devs you have some very good ideas for new players who can not play at all.
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Can you imagine complaining about a perk that is entirely in the survivors hands on if it activates or not?
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per not_Queen
"As it was mentioned in the thread by different people, NOED isn't rewarding poor gameplay from Killers:
- Killer has to play the trial with only 3 perks before the doors are activated.
- The perk can be fully deactivated by survivors
- If the killer has no luck in hooking many survivors before the doors are activated, then the survivors should have been able to cleanse totems without feeling pressure, thus, not giving the NOED edge to the killer. It's on them if it activates.
- If survivors allow the killer to get a 4K with NOED in the end game, I would argue that survivors made mistakes during their end game plays or didn't prepare for the potential NOED activation.
Finally, if you don't want to play NOED, it's your prerogative. In my opinion, building a build that is strong in end game isn't rewarding failure, it is using perks for their intended purposes. The purpose of NOED is to give a killer a burst of strength in end game. Since it's effectively strong, survivors have the power to deactivate it, if they focus secondary objectives.
The killer players choosing to play NOED are banking on a burst of strength at the end for the downside of playing with 3 perks the rest of the game and having a chance to have their perk deactivated. It's a high risk, high reward scenario.
Do bones."
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This kind of makes me want to feed them more now though.
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Survivors: Have top tier perks which give second chances without counters.
Killers: Gets a single second chance perk with a easy counter.
Also Survivor: NOT FAIR, IT REWARDS BAD KILLERS!!!!!!!!!!
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I've gotten back into Hag. I play her with her webs, not a camper Hag. Yes, I defend hooks by placing one trap, but I have 9 or less in a strong and relatively high-traversed area, always getting hits, other times getting downs. I use NOED not for the 'get a down because I didn't all game', I use it to ensure my endgame potential, because my snowball through the match could and can more often than not, go awry, leaving me with one to three hooks, depending. Am I a great Hag? Heck no. I've said this multiple times that I have a lot to learn, but I also only use NOED to give me a boost in my endgame, because relying on gen perks early and mid game is too hecking stressful.
As survivor, which I play way more of now, I immediately check tiles for totems before or after I do a gen. I know all of the spots by heart. I even make it my mission, when we are down to one or two gens, to make sure all 5 totems are done. Of course, I am a killer magnet, so I often have to get NOED in the end, but if you know all of the spots, that one down camp scenario doesn't last long. Especially if you run BT, which I do. I don't like leaving anyone behind.
Is NOED a perk that rewards with no play? Yes. I won't deny that. It's a hex perk however. It's a HIGH reward/risk perk, and it's easily counterable by doing bones. Ds, as you use in your example, isn't counterable. Well, waiting it out and going for someone else makes it counterable by a degree, but killers have to snowball to get anywhere in a game, because they can't do their objective as quickly and efficiently as survivors can do theirs. So, if they happen to snowball the other three, they can't do much but slug and chase down the ds player, who could reset the slugs. Same can be said when you go for everyone else, hook them, then go for the D'S player but you eat it and lose all of your pressure, IF the player uses it to their advantage. Granted, there's a lot of niche scenarios where you need a pallet, need something to go your way, and among other things, but DS can make a killers win do a 180. Eating that Ds may be the only way to get rid of it, but what you lose by doing so could do you more harm than good, as well as benefit you if you eat at 5 gens.
DS, Dead hard, BT (counters endgame to a degree), SB, Adrenaline (this perk can destroy an endgame snowball without NOED) are perks survivors have to prolong their life. They have three hook states and two health states. This is base.
I'm rambling, my point is, NOED can be avoided. Even endgame can be ended with a quick search around the map. If you worry about not finding the totem, use Small Game until you've memorized the locations. DS and NOED are on a similar plane, but not by a lot. DS being avoided or taken could kill a match for Killer. Breaking totems has zero repercussions for survivors and only has benefits. I understand it's frustrating and requires no skill to use it, by it I mean NOED, but this can be said by many other perks that are used by survivors.
Just my thoughts on it. Hope I didn't come off as rude. I do find NOED dislike silly, but well understood.
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"Someone disagrees with me? TROLL TROLL YOURE A TROLL IF YOU DONT AGREE WITH ME!"
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I literally play killer more than anything but okay Mr. "You dont like something I like so you're an entitled toxic survivor main."
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Regardless of a killer's skill, it is designed as a LAST RESORT.
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I see it in a similar light to spine chill. Its normally used by bad players but actually has a good purpose. I see noed as a second chance perk like some survivor perks. I also see the potential of it as a good reason to not completely gen rush a killer. It can be frustrating but I don't think it should ever be touched.
I created a perk a while ago that if run, wouldn't work with noed. The idea behind it was to give the killer early game slowdown, without the potential of a late game instadown.
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NOED only works against lazy survivors and they deserve to die. When I play survivor I cleanse the totems. Just gen rushing is pretty stupid but some never learn.
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Let’s not pretend generalizing isn’t bad, you’re better than that
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You guaranteed wrong.
DS doesn't reward bad loopers at all but then again you strike me as the person that would say that someone getting farmed and then immediately knocked back down means that the survivor that got farmed is bad 🤷♂️
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A killers job is the kill, keeping gens from being done can help buy them time do so.
Or they can just let all the gens go and kill everyone in the endgame, their choice, simple.
A survivors job is to survive, that means doing the gens so the doors are powered and leaving, if you fear the possibility of NoeD and its ability to stop you from doing you job, you should adress that in time, their choice to take the risk, simple.
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Well because one is completely locked out of play until the last generator Pops and even then it's possible that it might not even activate if there's no dulls. If no one escapes death messes up you don't get a redo
Decisive strike can be activated at any stage during the game once you've been unhooked it could also be used to very easily cheese objectives.
For example you can remain on a gen that's really close and the killer is forced in a lose-lose situation where they either pull you off and take the decisive and you popped the gen or they hit you twice to try to down you and you pop the gen in their face after the first hit.
Same will apply for hook saves it removes any sort of punishment for bad play and there's nothing they could do on their part to prevent this.
You messed up the defensive strike as long as you didn't click the skill check button you could always try again on your next unhooking.
Personally as annoying as it can be I don't have a problem with the locker tech it's people cheesing objectives with the defensive strike I hate.
Also no one escapes death can be dealt with while still playing efficiently detectives hunch and small games means you could do this very easily without wasting unnecessary time. Inner strength can you make sure that all the time you wasted on the totem is repaid in value.
Decisive Strike It's a lot harder to counter efficiently especially when it's been used to cheese. If you let the person go and slow down your momentum/ get an objective or you slug the survivor for the 60 seconds and have someone else go over and heal them however if we do that as Killers we have you guys completely throw fits about it.
Hell locker tech is specifically designed to stop the killer from slugging you and leaving to pressure more people while someone has to heal you.
Tl;dr Both Noed and defensive can be cheap and annoying to go up against but neither dictates a person's skill level or should be removed. Let people use the perks they want to use and stop being judgemental. Damn
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Well if thats the case if you refuse to do totems and the killer has noed just take the L we need less red rank survivors anyways. Tired of playing with baby red ranks.
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Even decent killers can catch a bad break and not get kills before gens are done, Noed is aback up plan that as you said only really helps get one kill in most circumstances. And it's not a sure thing if you don't face camp which alot of players refuse to do.
Bad players, with bad habits exist taking away Noed won't change that.
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It can reward bad killers because you can literally afk yo get the perk to proc.
Do I care enough to make a case about it needing to be nerfed? No.
Just like to point out the obvious. I never see someone who has no ed as “damn you worked hard for that no ed” more like “you’re welcome that the game gives you a free expose”.
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2 words...
Do Bones.
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Same can be said about ds
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That's dumb.
NOED has a blatantly clear counter play. Jumping into a locker with DS does not have a counter play. It's body armor. I mean, I don't mind DS personally. I don't mind slugging someone. Most of the time when DS is active it only takes one hit to down 'em and they're close so it's easy slug pressure.
There simply isn't a killer perk that works like survivors do. They all only help the killer if they go out of their way to sweat or under very, very specific conditions that are normally hard to meet. The only good perk that arguably helps a killer without making them sweat to get any actual competent use out of it is probably Cruel Limits since it has an affect that activates purely on survivor actions, actions which the survivor HAVE to do-complete gens-
But even Cruel limits is so broken right now because it gives you no alert, dosen't affect pallets that are always near gens anyway, and gives no warning when it will activate. That it requires a gen to be fixed so it still preferable to not let it activate since letting gens get done is technically hurting you.
Even rancor requires you to find ONE SPECIFIC survivor durring an end period where the exit gates will open or be 99% and they run free anyway. It's purely luck if it actually gets used.
I also disagree that NOED is a punishment for either side nor a reward. It's an end game strat, an end strat that is easily countered by the busted 99% meta that effectively removes the end game. A segment that is already heavily survivor leaning if hatch hasn't been closed since exit gates are safe zones where almost every time you get a down near them the survivor will crawl to freedom during your attack cooldown anyway.
END GAME strats should be valid, otherwise why have end game perks to begin. It can't be both ways. You can't survivors zip zooming gens like lunatics and getting 3 done with the time extentsion the many...many...MANY...busted ass uncounterable loops because then you'd have to admit that if the killers sole job is to get gens protected then gens are busted to the core with how quick they are and how easy it is to extend chases with loops...especially the maps that have a heap load of unmind-gammable half wall loops where everything the killer does is seen.
So either the game is utterly and totally broken on survivor side who can cope with the mind numbing boring play of "optimal looping" aka the 3 run around a circle gimmick or that end game builds are valid.
I mean...for what it's worth. I do understand how it feels to work hard and have nothing you can do when the strat is in play. That's how I feel when I see a survivor loop and know that I can do jack about this even if I curve like a lunatic and do some mind bending oni plays. Except you know. Killers have to eat it and then get told to pressure more.
You can just do the bones.
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While I agree NOED is a crutch, survivors have many more unbalanced perks, so it's fine to me if killer uses NOED.
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The horse is bones at this point and they still keep beating it...
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I've AFK'ed as Wraith until Gens are done and 4K'ed using NOED, Rancor, Blood Warden, and BBQ (for points).
Of course, I'm a "bad killer" for winning and pipping by literally playing 10% of the game >_>;;
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How are DS and BT reward for playing bad perks?
They are there because 90% of green rank killers tunnel.
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NOED is the only "Second chance" perk for killer
And yet, this second chance perk is counterplayable by doing a simple thing: doing bones
With the second chance perk for Survivor their is not that much good counterplay :
- Unbreakable… well u need to stop slugging but slug is a very important strat as a kilelr for keeping presure
- Adrenaline : Sprint boost + insta heel, exept if u drop the Survivor , hit him 'causeu k now he had adrenalineu can't counter it
- DS : 60 of invinsibility jeez! And even thought, if you commit it, u loose time , no counter play (espacially with locker)
- Borrowed time : not a big deal, it's a second chance perk, but a cool one… exept one the unhook Survivor abuse of this mechanic for body blocking u while u try to hit the unhooker
Men… Seriously : NOED isn't a problem, u need to understand how killer work (i'm a kilelr main Don't mind me but i actually play Survivor a lot.. less, sure but that able me to understand both side.. which has killer is very important anyway)
The game, with the incomping update should be extremly balanced : gen speed should be good now, even if SWF can make u suffer, u can make them suffer with some toxic thing like iri Huntress , both side have some "unbalanced" and painfull mechanics and possibilitises , the problem is not the perk but the Community in the global line which absue (has kilelr or Survivor) of some very unfun combination and tech.
So yeah, if u think NOED is a perk for bad killer, u are wrong, like totaly, it's in general 'cause u gen rush are u are a bad player
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Not much of a topic here. I've been reading the forums for about the last year now and until have not posted a thought. For me, it seems about half of the posts are people just complaining about perks or styles of play they don't like because it doesn't fit in "their" world. To that I say, "Suck it up, learn from it and get better". A very easy argument can be made here that NOED is perfect for exposing lazy survivors. As part of the game, totems give points towards boldness and I am willing to bet survivors would not complain about easy points. Just enjoy the game and realize survivor perks are not always going to line up with killer perks and one or the other may get railroaded. Learn from it and move on. If the possibility of NOED ruins your day, (no pun intended) then run stake out and go get yourself 2000-3000 of easy boldness points.
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NoEd punishes survivors for ignoring the secondary objective, doesn't punish the killer for being bad, it punishes the survivors for targeting only Generators
and hell, NoEd is literally the only second chance perk killers have while survivors had DS, Adren, SB, DH, Unbreakable, BT, and so much more
You literally counter NoEd by cleansing a totem, not even hard at all
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The difference between spending time cleansing totems and a killer eating a DS is that time management is WAY more important for killer than survivor so that's not even a good comparison. I do k omw that bad killers, ie ppl who just face camp and blatantly tunnel even when they have easier targets, use NOED to compensate for bad play but honestly some days as killer when no matter how fast I down survivors they still manage to crank out gens noed is nice. Though honestly it's generally a wasted perk slot. Sounds like someone's just salty cause they had a few bad games
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This is not a phrase i like using but have you tried gitting gud? If killers that use NOED are as bad as you claim you should have no problem not being hit by them.
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You don't even have to cleanse all totems. Have you tried to use noed against good survivors? Jfc they remember all the totem spawns but don't waste time cleansing them, so what happens is when noed activates they IMMEDIATELY cleanse it and then get that person and all get out- it does almost nothing to stop or slow them down.
Noed punishes bad survivors who can't break totems because they don't have the time, who can't remember or track any totem spawns, and who just rush gens without doing the secondary objective. Some of them even just ignore noed entirely and run the killer knowing they totally have it but making sure not to even get hit once before getting out; I see so many survivors trying to do stuff while injured at the end of the game and then complain about noed- and it's like, it wouldn't have changed anything.
Killers have like 2 second chance perks in the game, Noed and bloodwarden and survivors 99 gates every game because of bloodwarden negating it's use pretty much entirely.
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Of course NOED rewards bad killers. Good killers that I go against rarely need it. It's usually just the bad ones that do. It needs some tweaks.
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"Just take that oneshot"
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Your argument of comparing DS to Noed hasn't had much thought put into it. Noed is a hex, which means it can be completely removed from you if survivors take the time to cleanse the totems, which by the way... there are perks and items to help with that. DS had 1 perk that countered it and that was Enduring, but that's gone now, and DS isn't even a 1 time thing.. There are 3 other survivors that can potentially have it. Its not like I'm defending Noed, I dislike the perk as well, its just the execution of this post was poorly made.
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LMAO
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So, scenario -
You managed to get everyone onto death hook but gens have been popping the whole game. You're onto 1 gen left and two are nearly done so you don't have the time or map pressure to commit to chases, instead needing to kick gens and chase as a secondary in the hopes that a survivor blunders and you can snowball from there when disaster - as you kicked a gen three survivors got onto the other gen and completed it, activating all four of their adrenalines, returning the downed survivor next to you to who then runs away to the exit gates using the speed boost. They never cleansed totems, so now you have NOED. They 99d the gate and are now body blocking you to prevent you from downing their injured one. Luckily for you, you also have STBFL at 6 stacks and as such swing and down the body blockers but the other two manage to get out.
This isn't OP, this isn't "giving an easy win to the killer", it's just allowing them to make up for a lack of late game pressure attributed to the fact that the punishment was spread evenly and as such nobody died early on in the match. The killer still worked hard for the win, and ultimately the survivor's had a massive opportunity to cleanse the totems. If this is horrifically OP then any perk that provides a significant but temporary advantage when conditions are met are by extension extremely OP (e.g. adrenaline, SB, DH etc) but in my eyes they really aren't OP.
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Kind of like Adrenaline and DS.
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Would you agree that DS should work on end game because that's a free escape
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Devs themselves have said, its a late game perk, punishes killer ( they font have 4 perks for most of the trial) and it is completely controlled by the survivors if it activates. If you dont do bones your a a bad survivor.
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NOED is trading power now for a possible burst of power later - that's all it is. It feels bad, but that's because the survivor knows it could've been avoided but doesn't know how to just accept that knowledge.
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The fact that people are still crying about noed is great, I just deal with it.
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🙄🙄🙄
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I'm not @ing anyone in particular but NOED isn't a "punishment" for not doing totems, simply because totems are an optional objective and not a mandatory one.
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NoED should probably tell people that they've been hexed when at 1 gen instead of being a "surprise, nerd." Other perks also reward "poor" play as well. Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time (sometimes), Fire Up (requires gens to be done) are all examples of this.
Doing Bones =/= to grabbing out of DS locker, if a killer hits DS then they must go through another chase, which could easily last for 20-40 seconds. All totems take 60 seconds, split it among 4 survivors and then there's 15 seconds for each surv, not to mention if you just spent time chasing them after finding them post-unhook.
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Rank 1, I use DS, I've 5 gen looped killers. Let's not pretend you've played survivor before. You definitely haven't. Your a killer main that thinks everyone plays the way you do but they definitely don't. It's not rare for killers to facecamp, let survivors unhook you only to down you right away and rehook you creating an unavoidable scenario if your teammates don't work together... Which they often don't. DS is powerful but has counterplay, slugging for example, not fun for either side but it's not indicative of skill whether a survivor uses DS. It's a meta perk so obviously good players are going to use it. You can't expect to 5 gen loop every single killer you go against...
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Though I do agree DS needs a change however to not use it is a massive risk due to some awful killers. Here's how I think it should work:
Much shorter timer, 15 - 30 seconds. Timer is paused while in a chase (so if you get tunneled straight off hook your not forced to play stupid and go down earlier if you make some distance just to activate DS meaning it rewards you for being better). Maybe so you can't just be downed and the killer wait 15 seconds and then rehook you instantly the timer could tick down slower while in the dying state within a certain range of the killer?
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This literally explains how I deal with NOED every game that I see it go active on a killer, it is so rare for the totem to be close to the killer that there is no point in cleansing the totems, there is enough time to do it with the 99% door or even during EGC. I still do not understand how this perk will ever pose a problem for anybody that calls himself decent at this game.
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