What's the point of Deathslinger inflicting Deep Wound?
Out of all the things this cowboy does and doesn't have, the ability to give Survivors Deep Wound by hitting them with his power really confuses me.
Deep Wound is meant to be a stall tool, forcing Survivors to spend time mending so that they can't sit on generators. On Legion, for our only other example, this makes sense: Feral Frenzy is designed to hit multiple people in rapid succession and inflict them all with Deep Wound, so that by the time Legion comes out of Frenzy, everyone has been at least a little diverted to help make up for the fact that Legion ultimately has no power when it comes to downing Survivors and thus is extremely weak chase-wise. It's clear that Frenzy is meant to stall as well as injure, and Deep Wound explicitly facilitates that.
But then you have Deathslinger: A 110% speed Killer with absolutely no bonus mobility, who has to reload every time he uses his power, and as a result can only focus on one Survivor at a time. In exchange, his chase power can pin Survivors at weak loops so that he can walk over to them, or it can grab them from afar and bring them towards the Deathslinger.
This is almost the polar opposite of Legion's power in terms of fundamentals—whereas Feral Frenzy is intended to rapidly apply a stalling effect to multiple Survivors to make up for the fact that Legion is a pure M1 Killer against injured people and thus has a very weak chase, Deathslinger has the lowest possible mobility in the game next to tier 1 Myers, but in exchange has a chase power that grants massive returns in the right hands. His pressure comes not from debilitating Survivors, but from rapidly completing his objective of downing and hooking someone when he eventually finds them.
Deep Wound does not facilitate a chase power. Deep Wound is designed specifically for the Killer to abandon the Survivor and establish their presence elsewhere, leaving the previous Survivor to mend. It makes sense on a Killer with mobility but weak chase like Legion, who is designed specifically for running around hitting multiple people, but again, Deathslinger is one of two 110 Killers with no bonus mobility. He cannot chain hits; he cannot chase multiple people at once. He is clearly intended to focus down one Survivor and swiftly end the chase with them so he can disable them not by forcing mending, but by downing and hooking them.
So why? Why does the Deathslinger inflict Deep Wound? It's completely counter-intuitive to the rest of his kit. The only time this has any major use is if you spear the obsession and break the chain to conserve Save the Best for Last tokens. Aside from that, however, Deep Wound and Deathslinger are fundamental opposites. The ability to inflict it feels like an absolutely unnecessary and unhelpful inflation to his kit.
Comments
-
jeffslinger is the legion rework we always wanted
3 -
Damn u rite
2 -
Because if the hook didn't count as a deep wound this killer could practically instana down every one. The game would go to quick. Personally i would LOVE if that wasn't the case,but it's for balancing purposes. I've noticed any killer abilities that can instana down has a two step process.
2 -
... How would it be an instadown? Just make it injure without inflicting Deep Wound, like, you know, 95% of attacks in this game. Deathslinger specifically has an addon for making his power instadown, and it doesn't do it by ignoring Deep Wound; it does it by applying Exposed instead of Deep Wound.
6 -
Jeffslinger would also have a two-step instadown in this case. Step one, fire gun. Step two, M1.
0 -
I think it's fine, it's time survivors have to spend off gens I don't see how it would benefit anyone but survivors to remove it
5 -
Except it's not going to do that because Deathslinger sucks at applying the status effect to multiple Survivors at once. In 99% of scenarios, the Deep Wound does absolutely jack squat nada. It clashes so viciously with Deathslinger's kit that if you actually do manage to apply it to multiple Survivors at once, then either they're clowning around or you're just straight up playing Deathslinger wrong. It's utterly pointless and I don't know why they added it.
1 -
It wastes 12 seconds of survivors time (8 if they mend each other) which supposedly buys him time to apply more map pressure despite his slower than average 110%/4.4ms Movement Speed (I think the idea was if they are spending more time mending/healing, then they spend less doing objectives). Unfortunately this seems to be the only thing in his kit that wastes survivors time, but because of how heavily nerfed and un-threatening Deep Wounds is, and how slowly he applies it to survivors vs Legion, it doesn't really slow them down enough, much less allow him more map pressure. So aside from adding 12 seconds onto a survivors healing time, it's pretty useless at giving him the time wasting advantages he needs, especially if the survivor was inflicted with DW by snapping his chain which stuns him for 4 seconds. If DW were re-worked again to have only a 15 second timer instead of its current 30, then it could actually be a little more threatening since every time a survivor pauses at a mind-game-able loop, vaults a window, drops a pallet, etc, the timer starts ticking down, which would make having the DW status on your character something more urgent to take care of since you don't want to be caught in a chase that has you pausing for any reason.
Deathslinger does need a time wasting mechanic for survivors, but DW is not an effective one for him in its current weak ass state.
0 -
That's literally what I just said. Even if DW were good, it's next-to-pointless on Deathslinger because his power is so obviously designed not to work that way.
1 -
Well, what do you suggest we should have instead of the deep wounds?
0 -
Literally nothing. Just make it injure. Deep Wound on him is completely, utterly pointless. If he struggles to apply map pressure, give him longer range, or 112.5% movement speed instead of 110%, or literally anything that complements his power instead of contradicts it.
1 -
I seriously dont get it, whats the problem of him applying deep wounds? Why does it contradict his power? What I get from your post is that his power cant apply deep wounds fast, therefore, its pointless, but the way I see it, deep wounds helps stall the game even if just by a bit, I dont think its detrimental in any way, shape or form.
1 -
What's the point of applying a debuff designed to stall Survivors when you abandon them if your power is specifically designed not to abandon Survivors, but to focus them down and end the chase extremely quickly? He has no mobility, no hit-chaining; nothing to actually assist in applying Deep Wound to anyone other than the Survivor he is currently chasing. And since Deep Wound does absolutely nothing in a chase, there's no point in having it. Like I said to someone else, it's so contradictory to his power and his stats that if you go out of your way to try and spread Deep Wound as Deathslinger, you are SERIOUSLY hindering yourself.
2 -
Think about it, you hook the survivors putting them in the injured state. In addition you reel them to hit them with a bayonet. They wouldn't have much of a chance. I know its not a "instana down" like being exposed, but you would down a survivor in one encounter eith out a chase.
0 -
Uh, friendo, hooking a Survivor doesn't injure them. The only time their health state will change after being speared is if they break the chain or if you reel them in and hit them.
0 -
It's not detrimental, but it has bad synergy, the usual poor understanding of the devs.
As a slinger you mostly 1v1 survivors, so 90% of the time I'll hit you and continue to chase to down you so the time wasting effect of dw is essentially lost.
In few cases you'll abandon chase and it may help a bit but it's a lazy design for a 1v1 killer
4 -
The point of what I'm saying is that it would be to quick, think about with ghost or myers you gotta stalk. Hex based requirements must be met. But if you harpoon a survivor and injured them, then reel them in preventing them from fleeing and hit them to put them in a dying state. The game would fly. Survivors would DC even more.
0 -
Finally, someone gets it. The only possible reason I can think of adding Deep Wound is a lazy attempt at giving a 110 Killer with no mobility some extra pressure, but it so clearly doesn't work well with him. If he's too good to be 115, just make him 112.5% or something, or tweak his power to make giving him 115 speed justifiable.
0 -
What the hell are you talking about? Just because you harpooned a Survivor doesn't mean they're going to be injured. They will become injured if the chain breaks or if you reel them in and hit them, and they will only enter the dying state if you reel them in and hit them. If we took away Deep Wound, it would not facilitate instadowns because unless the Survivor is Exposed, you HAVE to hit them twice, harpoon or no harpoon. If we took DW out of Deathslinger's kit, the only thing that would change is the appearance of a glowing orange bar beneath a Survivor's icon when you hit them after spearing them.
0 -
I'm fairly sure the devs simply had no idea of what to do with him and they added a worthless extra mechanism to slow the game down, but that is an epic failure
2 -
Replace Deep Wound with the Hindered status effect. Rewards good shots and makes more sense if you move slower after getting harpoon'd in your torso.
2 -
This is not a bad idea actually, but I think survivors would deem it annoying to play against
0 -
Because if he somehow loses the survivor that he hit, they still have to mend, effectively wasting some of their time that could be spent on gens. It’s just a small added effect that isn’t really a big deal... would only benefit survivors somehow to have it removed.
0 -
Deep wound has been consistantly pointless since its addition. I didnt actually realise until I went up against a deathslinger eh at RUNNING pauses the timer even if the killer is hooking someone elsewhere.
Also having to fill more meters as survivor isnt fun
0 -
Deep wound has been consistantly pointless since its addition. I didnt actually realise until I went up against a deathslinger eh at RUNNING pauses the timer even if the killer is hooking someone elsewhere.
Also having to fill more meters as survivor isnt fun
0 -
Although a great idea, it would add to the fact that Clown is just terribly weak. Freddy’s abilities already bully Clown’s.
0 -
imo, i feel like its supposed to be a built in counter to adrenaline.
land a shot and injure them to deep wound? they wont gain a health state from adrenaline
0 -
You could probably just have a mangled effect instead and change his add-ons
2 -
If it did that, what would be the point of him being 110? It only makes his already-insane chase potential even stronger, but it doesn't make up for his glaring weakness of negative map pressure.
0 -
I agree. I feel like I've been experiencing a different version of Deathslinger than a majority of the community/content creators. This killer's power contradicts itself at a basic level. He's bad any way you utilize him.
You can take advantage of deep wound's stall potential, but then you're wandering around a ginormous map at 110% with poor downing capability. So, a bad version of Legion 1.0.
You can chase and use the killer's power to focus people down, but he's still bad at that. And Deep Wound is inconsequential at that point because the timer doesn't go down when people are running. He has poor downing capability even if you hit your shots. I had two games this morning where I just ran to a jungle gym and dropped a pallet when I was injured in chase. In both games, Deathslinger gave up and abandoned chase to patrol at 110%.
This killer is terrible. I don't understand the love for him at all. We didn't need time to figure out Oni or Freddy. We knew they were strong right away. We knew Plague was solid right away. We knew Demogorgon was weak-ish right away. The numbers bear that out. But apparently people just haven't figured out Deathslinger yet. The hilariously high escape rates I'm seeing are just people "figuring it out". The game is 4 years old. People know how to play at this point.
2 -
Well I think that’s just you struggling. I’m doing almost exclusively well with Deathslinger at red ranks, despite constantly prestiging him and being short on good Perks. I agree that his map pressure is wack, but to say he sucks at chasing is just hilariously untrue; in the right hands, Deathslinger’s chase potential is downright broken.
0 -
I won't even read the thread, I'll just agree: Get rid of Deathslinger's Deep Wounding, lol.
0 -
I don't think Deep Wound was added for Deathslinger to purposely forego the chase for someone else, I think it's a parting gift for the survivor who escaped the chase. So like many said above, it would only benefit the survivors if removed. Yea it's only 8 seconds of an inconvenience for them, but at least it's something. What happens if the mending survivor who is now almost done healing gets unintentionally sandbagged?? Down goes Frasier... Those extra 8 seconds helped.
2 -
Probably devs idea to fix his abyssmal map pressure. It still doesn't help tho.
0 -
I personally think DW was mostly applied for thematically reasons and to give Deathslinger something to recover, if a survivor pulls away from a hook and get lost. It's more lika bonus that kinda does something...
2 -
So what you’re saying is, Deep Wound was implemented as a crutch for bad Deathslingers who have a tendency to lose the Survivor they’re chasing?
So removing it would be a nerf to people who can’t play them whilst leaving better players nigh unaffected?
Sounds like bad game design if you ask me.
0 -
And I think a lot of survivors are really bad at the game. Even when you do land a harpoon, you're spending 10+ seconds on the whole extravaganza to land an M1 you could have just landed playing a different killer. Why would I take Deathslinger when I can take Plague, outside of aesthetic reasons?
0 -
I'll do you one better: What's the point in Deep Wounds?
1 -
Because Plague can't spear people from a range and pull them towards her at any point she has LoS? Because Plague can't hold Survivors still at loops where she would normally struggle to mindgame at? Because Plague can't position Survivors to her whim? Because Plague doesn't have a literal harpoon gun?
Seriously, if you're good with Deathslinger, you're essentially a Huntress who doesn't need to rev. It's absolutely insane.
0 -
Eh I think the more I play against him, the more I'm omay with the deep wounds. It certainly doesn't feel right, but he's easy to avoid if you're an immersed player.
I think the bigger issue I have with him is his quickscope, but even then I'd feel like he'd just be way too easy to avoid.
I think a fantastic fix to this would be to remove his terror radius and red stain when he aims his gun, but it actually takes a second to aim. And if you fire from the hip, the shot will never hit the same spot twice, so it's a give and take.
This would make him feel more like the hunter he's supposed to be.
0 -
I think instead of deep wounds it should just apply Mangled or Broken for so long. Nothing ridiculously long of course. Maybe until healed for mangled of 60 seconds of broken status. Especially if they changed it to broken status his power would definitely make him worthy of 110.
0 -
Because they dont want killers to have any form of power over the game. only survivors are allowed to dictate if they succeed or not.
Deep wound is a small slap in the face like: here, we gave you something, now be happy".
but its bullshit. Deep Wound sucks.
When the entire timer runs out of the chain but you dont hit, the injured guy should suffer from something else than deepwound.
0 -
I get what you mean but it wouldn't word it precisely an instadown. What I think you are voicing concern on is that the harpoon hit would first injure the survivor, and then all the gunslinger would have to do to get the dying state is reel the surv in for an easy second hit.
It's not an instadown in the sense of one hit one down, but without the deep would effect the killer would get the "second hit" way too easily.
0 -
What are you people raving about with this “instadown” nonsense? Let me repeat: A SPEARED SURVIVOR DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY BECOME INJURED WHEN SPEARED. When you spear a Survivor, their health state does not change. Their health state only changes when they break free or if they get reeled in and attacked. For some reason, these just so happened to inflict Deep Wound. That doesn’t make anything an instadown.
Allow me to spell it out for you. If we removed Deep Wound, here’s what would happen.
- The Survivor is speared.
- The Survivor remains uninjured until they break free or get hit, at which point, they become injured.
- The Survivor is speared again.
- The Survivor is reeled in and attacked, thus causing them to be put into the dying state.
This is what would happen. This is exactly what happens now, with the only difference being that the Survivor gets a glowing orange bar beneath their icon during step 2. That’s it. There is nothing “instadown” about Deathslinger aside from the ultra-rare addon that applies Exposed to speared Survivors when you hit them from further than 15 meters away. Unless this addon were to become basekit, Deathslinger will have to spear and hit a healthy Survivor twice to down them, Deep Wound or not.
0 -
You just described pre-rework gamekeeper of Identity V (pull+damage followed by melee attack)
0 -
Deep wound is not a crutch or a nerf if removed- you yourself said it is "pointless," as well as "unnecessary & unhelpful." It's just an added affliction that wastes time. I get your argument that it does not fit into his theme/kit. First time I saw it cause DW on a Stream, I found it strange. Then even more strange the first time I myself was speared.
If he is one of your favorite killers right now, I can respect why you would want a "cleaner look/kit-" especially if you like to play immersed.
0 -
I mean... you’re harpooning a person, so, even if you don’t think it works with his power (which I don’t necessarily agree with), you’re hooking a survivor with a spear. At the very least, a spear to the body would cause a deep wound in that circumstance normally. Perhaps that’s where some of the rationale for the status effect comes from; no deeper than that
0 -
more damage.
they gotta heal longer when they do get away from him - its much better than just injuring them.
0 -
Well that logic really fails when you consider the fact that manually breaking the harpoon will leave the Survivor totally unharmed, even though it still barreled through their abdomen at a velocity of 40 meters per second. Why wouldn't it still leave a deep wound then? Why does the gaping hole in their body just magically disappear?
This is also the same game where a Survivor can fix their leg after it gets caught in a trap meant for bears by rubbing their stomach for 32 seconds, and where a kitchen knife stabbing you in the back does the same amount of damage as a fully revved chainsaw, and where attacks made in a rabid Frenzy inflict you with wounds terrible enough to bleed you out, but until you do something about that life-threatening injury—which can be coagulated by running, by the way—additional attacks made in that same frenzy do absolutely nothing.
So factoring in realism is kind of a terrible idea.
0 -
I've already explained in here a billion times over why such reasoning is flawed because it doesn't work with Deathslinger's kit, but ok.
0
