Head On
I was actually wondering why Head On has the 3 second requirement. I personally see no downside in jumping in a locker to dodge a killer attack and then stunning them without the 3 second requirement, pretty much all exhaustion perks will give people a way to gain distance during a chase, Head On being the only exception as you already need a lot of distance to be able to pull it off. Its a pretty useless exhaustion perk compared to other exhaustions, that causes people to spam lockers just to get a stun out of it.
Basically: I simply dont see a reason in it being an exhaustion perk with the 3 second requirement. I do understand that in combination with other exhaustion perks it could be too strong, but in practice its simply not worth running it unless you're in a premade team.
Comments
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Because jumping into a locker shouldn't be a free "I screwed up this chase, now I should get a free stun" card. I would have thought it was obvious.
Killers have a recoil smacking a locker, meaning they would have no way to avoid the stun in time. So basically now when a survivor gets to a locker the killers just has to give up? We already have this nonsense with people running DS and immediately jumping in lockers to avoid getting slugged.
If you want a perk that allows you to dodge a killer attack, there's already an exhaustion perk for that, it's called dead hard and it's about 3000 times more useful than head-on. The only reason anyone ever wants to use this perk is so they can put it in their "killer bullied" montages.
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youre running head on because its FUN perk, if you dont feel like its funny to hit killers with locker its not perk for you,
about exhaustion only reason i think it is exh perk just to not activate lithe or sprint burst right after stunning killer
about 3 seconds this perk would be too op if it would be instant (and im telling that as someone who often plays with head on +quick and quiet)
+ if you run bond you dont need swf you can see where surv is looping killer find locker and bang
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Its just to prevent brainless Head-On saves. But I still think that 3s are too much in comparison to the other exhaustion perks (2-2.5 should be tested) and that the counter should start when you enter the locker not when you stand still in the locker.
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Oh, so you consider Exhaustion perks are "I screwed up this chase, let me vault a window so I can use lithe and get free distance" "I screwed up this chase, better use dead hard to go ahead and get some distance" "I screwed up a chase, let me go in this hole and get some distance".
Head On would buy you the same time and distance as Lithe or Balanced Landing would buy, infact, with Endurance, they'd be buying LESS time and distance than other perks. So what you're saying is simply wrong. You didnt ######### up a chase if you lead a killer to a locker and get a stun from it. Let alone that Head On can be baited just as much as Dead Hard can. Your argument has simply been "being stunned is annoying". But realistically, exhaustion perks are about buying time and distance, in which case they are exactly the same. Its more annoying, but in practice they are the same, infact, even worse considering it's affected by Endurance.
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Yeah, a lot of perks are fun to use. But being fun and being useful shouldnt be exclusive. Dead hard can be fun to bait a hit, but its also useful. Plunderers Instinct is fun to open chest fast, but it can also give you a key so fast. All fun perks are also useful competitively. Head On only really works as an exhaustion perk when you can jump in a locker with Q&Q. Im not saying it neccesarily needs to be instantaneous, considering BL and Lithe both require you to land on the ground before you can use it. But 3 seconds is simply too long.
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Thanks for proving my point, dead hard is more useful in more situations, and already provides a way to prevent a hit from the killer. So run that if you care about being competitive, and save head-on for the meme compilations.
Good talk.
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I run it in solos and it is fun to use a lot. Most exhaustion perks are for gaining distance. Dead hard is meant, based on the description, to avoid damage. However, it is best used as a distance perk. Head On, for me, is best used while in chase if only with Q&Q and if you lose the killer around the corner for a sec.
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"Perk A is better than Perk B, so there is no use in making Perk B slightly more useful while still worse than Perk A"
Well, with that logic, guess dying light doesnt need to be improved, because thanatophobia is essentially better. Guess Unrelenting doesnt need to be better because Save The Best For Last is better. Great talk
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Yes, that is the logic, there is plenty of useless perks in the game because they need something for people to get annoyed with when it pops up in their bloodwebs instead of the perks people actually want.
For every BBQ and Chili there is a Monstrous Shrine. Every perk doesn't have to be maxed out.
Again with the failure at math. Thanatophobia and Dying Light are both garbage, and it would be obvious to anyone who understands numbers.
Thanatophobia at max effectiveness (16%) makes survivors take a whopping 12 extra seconds on a generator with no perks or toolboxes. Considering you also have to injure everyone to hit that, it's pretty bad. Hell pop goes the weasel regresses a generator up to 20 seconds and to use that all you gotta do is hook one person.
Dying Light is even worse, dear lord a 3% stacking debuff is a whopping 2.4 extra seconds for a generator per stack. You have to get five stacks to even equal Thanatophobia, and you would need a ridiculous eight stacks to even equal pop goes the weasel, which if you have 8 hooks on your non-obsessions that means two are dead and one is on death hook, which makes the perk useless in a heartbeat.
And yes no one gives a ######### about unrelenting, because STBFL IS better. Though to be fair those perks aren't really related.
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Just because they are both garbage, doesnt mean one is literally better. I understand math. My point was that one perk was better.
And no, they dont need people to get annoyed with bad perks, every single perk should have value in game. If you have 4 main perks (BBQ, Pop, STBFL and Sloppy) that are simply always the best perks to run, you have a problem in balancing. There should be no 1 best build and you should have weaker perks amplifying other perks significantly enough to either run them as a good combo or has the potential to snowball late game. Not every perk should be maxed out, sure, but every perk should be a viable perk.
As for unrelenting and STBFL being related, they kinda are. One reduces misses and the other reduces hits. Sure STBFL is better because having 2 hits in quick succession is better than 1 miss and 1 hit in quick succession, but that doesnt take away that Unrelenting could have better numbers(at least 60%) to make it at least comparable to STBFL.
My biggest issue is that people here are complaining about everything, yet then say the complete opposite. Nerfing is fine when the gameplay is balanced, which it obviously isnt. Individually seen, camping and tunneling can only be countered with perks that killers complain about. Genrushing can only be countered by buffing things that survivors who never genrush already complain about. Basically, the only way to play the game as a survivor currently without being forced to depip, is to rush gens. If you dont rush gens, about 75% of killers will instantly punish that. So pre-emptively, almost 100% of survivors will rush the first 3 gens, either actively or accidentally, which causes the remaining 25% of the killers to be forced to play like the other 75%.
We basically have 2 power plays that is rampantly existant in the game, and a lack of viable perks is pretty much the reason for that. Survivors need a massive buff and killers need a massive buff, then some game mechanics need a massive buff, only then can things be changed that rushing gens isnt the first interest of survivors.
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The requirement is there because unlike other exhaustion perks, Head On causes a stun to the killer.
Stuns are one of the strongest debuffs you can apply to a killer because it immobilizes the killer and prevents them from doing any action until the stun expires. Even better, they can be used to save other survivors, which makes Head On really dangerous to change without making it OP.
I believe the requirement should stay because instastuns aren't something I think anyone wants. However, I do believe Head On shouldn't be an exhaustion perk and should instead have a 100/80/60 second cool-down. Most decent killers will know how to counter this perk by baiting or grabbing you before you can Head On the killer. Therefore, making the perk be able to be used multiple times in a chase wouldn't be a bad idea. 😁
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I like the fact that it takes a little timing and skill to use the perk. You have to be strategic and calculated. I think it has some fun uses. I can see where no time requirement would be triggering for killers who spent the time/energy to earn the down.
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So I like how you just ignored the BBQ and Chili/Monstrous Shrine comparison, apparently we only have to be concerned with the less than optimal survivor perks do we.
Every perk already does have value in the game, and is viable. HEAD-ON is viable, it just isn't something you can use with no planning. Some perks just some have more value than others, this is how every game has worked in the history of gaming. There will always be optimal builds, perks, addons, loadouts, stat adjustments. Min/maxing is a thing across all gaming genres, it's just a natural thing. Trying to make every single perk viable or optimal is a fool's errand because people will always gravitate to the most effective, even if the second most effective is only off by a few percents.
And no, sorry, STBFL and Unrelenting are not related, one rewards a killer for smacking survivors that aren't their obsession, one is training wheels for survivors who can't land M1's. The idea should be.......not to miss your M1's. Unrelenting rewards bad habits which is why you never see it. And that's fine, we don't need to find some way to make unrelenting viable, particularly because unless you made it better than other perks to the point where people had to use it (and thus became OP) people are going to stick with what they know, love, and have used forever.
This is why I don't get mad at survivors for using meta perks. Decisive, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, Adrenaline, Dead Hard. These perks aren't used all the time because of anything else other than they are the most effective, so of course survivors will use them. If you choose to use less optimal perks, you are certainly allowed to make that choice, but the game isn't required to buff your choice perks just so you can feel optimal too.
"Genrushing can only be countered by buffing things that survivors who never genrush already complain about. Basically, the only way to play the game as a survivor currently without being forced to depip, is to rush gens. If you dont rush gens, about 75% of killers will instantly punish that. So pre-emptively, almost 100% of survivors will rush the first 3 gens, either actively or accidentally, which causes the remaining 25% of the killers to be forced to play like the other 75%."
So now we just veered off into a whole other topic. So let me start by blowing your mind.
I don't think generator speeds are the problem.....as a killer main.
I know right? Mind blown.
The problem is a combination of poor map design and the loss of old Hex: Ruin. Now I'll start by saying old Hex: Ruin was a crutch, and a band-aid on the problem which was some maps are so terribly designed they make the game an absolute nightmare for killers regardless of perk loadouts or addons. What SHOULD have happened is Hex: Ruin should have been reworked, but ONLY after the most egregious maps (Rotten Fields, Disturbed Ward, Ormond) had already been redone to be less ridiculous.
Ruin also served as the secondary objective for survivors. Most killers did not expect to see Ruin last longer than 2 minutes, if it did, then that was just a bonus. Ruin was a way to force survivors to look for totems, and thus not rush generators. Take away the threat of Ruin, and now survivors have no reason not to just plop down upon spawn and start banging out M1, and I don't blame them for that. Of course don't get mad if the killer is running NOED and you ignore totems, just sayin.
If you reduce map size you make it so killers can patrol generators more effectively, this slows down generator speeds, gives survivors more opportunities for earning points through chases and escapes as it will now be necessary for all survivors to participate to spread the aggro out enough to balance hooks with getting generators done.
The idea that perk change is going to help generator speeds is comical when a perk change is what landed us in this mess in the first place.
"We basically have 2 power plays that is rampantly existant in the game, and a lack of viable perks is pretty much the reason for that. Survivors need a massive buff and killers need a massive buff, then some game mechanics need a massive buff, only then can things be changed that rushing gens isnt the first interest of survivors."
Again no, what we need is maps that aren't designed like the developers were high at the time. Nobody has a problem with survivors prioritizing generators, they're supposed to, they just shouldn't be able to do it on maps that are so huge they don't know who the killer even is until the final generator is popping.
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It's because a stun can be very damaging to the Killer. Forcing the Killer to stand still for three seconds and possibly denying them a hook can be game-changing. It would also be very unfun to deal with instastuns throughout the game.
And honestly, with how much dedicated servers mess with the perk, I don't think changing it is a good idea.
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You failed to hit, so you get punished. Thats exactly what it should be.
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all of this. head on is the most fun perk for an easy laughing. watching a killer get hit by it twice and then have locker ptsd after is the greatest joy in this game.
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Head-On is a minor 3s stun, not 5. Its literally just 2s cause of Animations the Survivor goes through until he starts to run. So you really want to complain about something situational as Head-On getting QoL changes to change up the variety in exhaustion perks? Obviously biased to the bone.
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It's to stop it from being used any time. It would be extremely annoying and frustrating to go against if all you had to do was hop in a locker to get a stun whenever you want. Requiring you to be in a locker for three seconds means you have to plan it out and gives the killer a chance to react to it. If you hop in right in their face, they'll grab you.
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I like using head on to help other teammates. Say a teammate is injured in a chase with the killer and on death hook. I see the jungle gym they're at and see him rotating. I get in the locker as my teammate heads in my direction and then stun the killer so my teammate can hopefully escape and then pick up the chase from there. I know its a bit niche but it works out more times than not tbh.
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It is an exhaustion perk to not allow jumping in and out of a locker repeatedly, locking the killer in a stun animation for the rest of the game 🙄
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My only issue with Head On is its design. It is literally just a "fu" perk it almost never serves a different purpose.
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I didnt ignore it, it was simply a statement you made. You might aswell have said "for every Unbreakable, we have a Dejavu". Your point was simply clear. It didnt really need a response. And if you want my thought on it: I believe monstrous shrine should be a base game mechanic on basement hooks. The basement exists for a reason, its rarely the best place to go to unless you happen to be close to it or are running a basement build. Other than that, there is no reason to go to the basement over other hooks, even though the basement is supposed to be super beneficial to killers. Having a base regression and Monstrous Shrine amplifying that regression significantly would make it a much better perk.
My argument was that head-on doesnt fit the exhaustion perks. Aka, its not viable to take the exhaustion perk slot. As for optimal builds in history of gaming, no, in competitive plays, there might be specific builds best for specific killers, but not a single build is good enough to be ran on everyone and be a winning combo. There are builds that are bad on a lot of killers, I mean, deerstalker is already quite bad unless you're going for a slug build, but deerstalker in a slugbuild on Doctor is even worse as his base mechanics already replace deerstalker much better than deerstalker itself ever could.
As for ultimately, yes, the idea is that you should never miss your m1, but having something like Unrelenting having higher numbers would allow for a build that allows a fake out. You could purposely miss on one side, then recover faster than survivors expect and get a nearly free hit out of it. Especially survivors who already memorized cooldowns and think they can Self Care for 1 or 2 seconds before they need to run again. Unrelenting isnt always about missing your attacks when you should hit them, it would allow for mindgaming when you miss an attack on purpose. Im not saying it should be as good as other perks, but it definitely could use a buff to open up more creative playstyles.
The game technically is required to buff certain perks, because if previously viable perks are suddenly pretty much unviable, you end up losing a large playerbase. Besides, again, there are a lot of perks, especially perks introduced with new killers and survivors, that could have a very interesting effect on a lot of other killers, but always have been mediocre or terrible when they simply dont need to be.
Genrushing was never about generator speeds. Generator speeds have essentially stayed the same since the game released. It's everything around generators that was simply lacking. As for Ruin, I actually think the current ruin has a lot more interesting things about it. A lot of people forget its actually there as they only get reminded everytime they leave a generator, and even then they're often like "ah, ill be right back anyway". I've played enough killer, both with and without ruin, to simply notice that on average, new ruin has a bigger effect, even though its weaker in essence. It basically went from a knife that you see coming and have the choice to block or take the damage, to a needle that you dont really notice untill the damage is already done. It's a bigger threat on the long run by being less of a threat on short term. As for NOED, its pretty much expected for killers to run it and either cleanse all the totems while the killer patrols the last 3 gens or just face it and probably give the killer a kill. At that point in the game, pips are often already earned by all survivors that are still alive, and dying after that point isnt really that impactful. If we made the mistake to not cleanse all the totems, we earned being instadowned and hooked.
Mapsize, imo, is not always the issue, really. Considering the game is technically "won" once you earn a pip, it doesnt matter what map is being used. Sure, some maps suck for a lot of less mobile killers, and they do need to do something about that, but making them smaller wont do much in the long run as you'd basically, again, be nerfing the game when you should be buffing the players playing the game to fit the maps. Personally, I'd rather have a lot of perks that are distance based, be mased on mapsize rather than a certain amount of meters. Example: If Surge can cover about 20% of the map in Gideon Meat Plant when you down someone in the middle, it should cover about 20% of the map if you down someone in Black Water Swamp. Calm Add-ons on Doctor should increase his terror radius more on large maps when his power is ready than on small maps. The only real issue you have then, is lack of mobility, but add some haste that lasts for 10 seconds when in range of certain land marks on those maps, and you pretty much reduce the issue with bigger maps.
Well, being chased by the killer is an interest of survivors too, unhooking and/or healing survivors is an interest too. The problem is that you can do nothing like that right now. If they made totems a bigger part of objectives, rather than a side objective, like guaranteeing NOED perkless when any dull totem is standing and buffing NOED itself to rebuild a random totem if they all happen to be finished, meaning that a lot of killers can simply leave out NOED out of their builds unless they want a guaranteed NOED, and those players who dont use NOED might still be rewarded with NOED, actually making the endgame a lot more threatening. Point being, the powerplays right now are unbalanced. Mapsize isnt really the problem, its base game mechanics. Some perks simply need to be base game mechanics with the current perks amplifying it. AKA the game needs to be buffed. Having a large map can be terrible for survivors, as the distance between structures tends to be a lot larger, but it affects killers early on a lot more than late game survivors. Buffing killers in ways to counteract that affection leads to a more interesting game overall than simply reducing mapsizes and keeping the current playstyles. Because even on the smallest maps, you can still genrush the same way you can genrush on massive maps. What smaller maps lack in distance, they compensate for with a lot of things that can widen the gap. The smallest maps even tend to have the strongest loops. All we need is to buff the weakspots in playable characters.
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Well, using a sprintburst to gain ahead of a killer for at least 3 seconds before he catches up, or using a dead hard to make the killer miss and recover from his attack causes him about 3 seconds to catch up, using sprintburst and forcing the killer to take 3 seconds before they can even start the chase. Practically, those are all the same situation. You have about 3 seconds before you are where you would be if you chased the survivor directly after using the exhaustion perk. Yet Head On is the only one to require 3 seconds after the locker animation FINISHES, yet the crow timer starts as soon as the locker animation STARTS. Meaning you essentially have a window of only 54 seconds untill the perk gets disabled for 75 seconds. So you have an exhaustion perks with basically 2 cooldowns on it. My point is that it doesnt make sense to be an exhaustion perk. I get why it would be extremely strong in combination with other exhaustion perks, as it would be basically the sprintburst+lithe combo all over again, but the fact that exhaustion perks are exhaustion perks because of chases, it doesnt make sense for Head On to be useless in a chase.
As for the dedicated servers, yeah, a lot of perks cannot be changed without screwing over anything. Hell, even iridescent heads for Huntress can sometimes be considered too strong as you often turn a corner and 5 seconds later you still get instadowned because on the Huntress screen, you were still hit, even though on my screen, it was a clear miss.
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Well, my point isnt that it shouldnt have any cooldown whatsoever, my point is that it doesnt fit with the rest of exhaustion perks.
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My Lord, imagine if it didn't have the 3 second requirement.
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Well, you could say the same for dead hard then: After the killer catches up to you, wait 3 seconds before you can use it. Or with Balanced Landing: after you fell on the ground, wait 3 seconds before you get the speedboost. I get why it falls under exhaustion perks as it would be extremely OP in combination with Sprintburst, but its simply odd that you cant use it in the way all other exhaustion perks are being used too.
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Well, kinda, being able to dodge a hit by jumping in a locker and then having a Head On ready would be similar to dodging a hit by vaulting and having Lithe ready. The only real annoyance is the lack of movement, which I agree with, but time-wise it would have the same gap increase as using lithe through a window or having sprintburst ready at 99% in a chase. The whole lack of usability in a chase makes it a very weird addition to exhaustion perks, and as a support perk it only works if you manage to be unseen. Personally, I'd even be up for a mere 1 second stun if it gives the user a speedboost afterwards.
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Yes but it doesn't take any skill.
Over exhaustion perks take a decent amount of skill and planning to use them effectively with this you could literally jump into a locker made Chase and have a killer not fall for it and miss a swing instead get ready to pull you out only to be stunned.
Then you're punishing the killer for playing well with no way to counter it.
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I didn't quote you on that one
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doesnt take any skill, just like sloppy butcher doesnt take any skill to apply but gives a very significant disadvantage, or how bbq and chili doesnt require any skill, but gives tons of information, or how pop goes the weasel doesnt take any skill but removes 20 seconds of work instantly, or how iron maiden doesnt take any skill but grants a free instadown+notification?
As for exhaustion perks taking decent planning and skill, you do realize that head-on, in this case, would literally require you to pathfind towards a locker with the killer right behind you. That takes a MASSIVE amount of planning on most maps, even to the point that BL and Lithe are easier to plan on most maps(and are otherwise useless due to a flat map). You need to know where lockers are or area's where lockers are likely to spawn, then reach it without going down and having the killer close enough to be able to stun the killer. Besides, this still makes it quite easy to counter as a killer can take a few steps back before the locker entering animation is finished. Meaning they can bait out the head-on anyway.
Again, the only reason I understand why its not an insta stun is because its annoying and could be demotivating to lower skilled killers, but annoyance literally is the only reason. If a permastun(4 headons+4 vigils) could be a problem, its simply an easy fix by giving the killer a few invincibility frames after the stun animation.
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Insta would be too strong for saves I think if a killers walks around a locker with a survivor but even reducing that requirement by a tiny bit would be great. 3 seconds is just so much. It is almost impossible to use in a chase. Not to mention you need q&q. Even making it half a second lower would be something !
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Sloppy butcher can be very easily ignored especially considering we have the don't heal meta. The only killer that's really required to heal against Oni.
BBQ and chili requires you to down a survivor you don't just get it for existing or tapping a hook.
Pop Goes the Weasel requires you to down and Hook A Survivor.
If you cannot down a survivor you do not get the benefits from the two perks above so yes they do take skill.
Whether you like to believe it or not but any perk that requires you to down a survivor requires you to put some skill into the game.
I use head on very frequently maybe not as much as lithe but I still could tell you for a fact you don't need a John Kramer levels of planning to use it.
You could literally get a free head on by just going to way area that the killer tends to frequent.
No you should not be rewarded with an insta stun for just jumping into a locker in fact the concept of that would remove any sort of minor planning that head on it needs.
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Just like head-on requires you to be able to reach a locker in time without recieving a hit, I mean, its not the hardest thing to do, but a lot of survivors arent able to pull it off. Just like how not every survivor can do the window tech properly or how some high rank survivors simply dont get the pallet stun timing right.
As for using head-on. The only way you can properly pull it off, is by going into a locker before someone goes to a loop. Meaning you need communication for it to work. Otherwise, not really. The lockers in the basement are too far from the stairs to pull off a stun. The lockers in the killer shack are nowhere near looping paths to pull off a stun. Lockers in generated buildings are nowhere near killer paths. There are only 2 structures where the locker faces a looping path directly, all other stuns require the killer to start checking lockers, which, surprise surprise, most killers dont as opening a locker wastes a lot of time unless they are extremely certain that a survivor is in one of the lockers. But you cant run towards a locker and leave scratchmarks, because then they'll bait the head-on out or camp outside the locker long enough for a single crow to spawn. Because making 1 crow spawn invalidates the perk and takes a much shorter time than the chase you would otherwise get by taking the stun instead. Playing solo and wanting to use head-on is practically a waste of perk slot. Even OoO solo is still very useful. Head-on is pretty much the only perk right now that I can think off, that requires teammates who inform you somehow that they are going to a certain structure with a locker that is usable for head-on. It requires quite a lot of planning. And yes, once you are in the locker, all you need to do is hit the timing right, and it is a large amount of timing that even a first time user can get it right. So IF you can pull it off, its easy to do. But the amount of locations you can actually use it? Only newer maps really garantuee lockers being on killer pathways, but 70% of maps, have 2 usable lockers at best.
As for Pop and bbq, almost all games practically garantuee at least 3 uses unless you have an optimal 4-man swf. Because there always will be 1 person who doesnt look around for surroundings and get downed easily. Those people are often people who are more supportive players who use perks like We'll Make It Borrowed Time and/or Autodidact. So it doesnt really take much skill. Let alone that hitting and downing people is literally the first "skill" you learn as a killer. Not being able to hit anyone means you're facing at least 1 player who outskills you, or you're facing hackers. Both cases, you wouldnt have won anyway regardless if you got to use the perks or not. Let alone the fact that killers like Billy and Huntress can have very easy instadown builds(seriously tho, billy rev speed addons are insane, practically instant revs right now that are faster to pull off than a short m1 without any real drawback)
Considering both survivors and killers need buffing in respective weaknesses(time for Dying Light stacks to act like STBFL stacks to actually make it useful), its not unreasonable to change head-on too.
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Lowering it to 2s would make it more viable.
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It stuns. Does "Lithe" stun? No! That's why it got more requirements and is lore difficilt ro use in chase. Easy like that.
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