Do you think DS is fine in it's current state?
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DS is fine if it is used as intended, but the problem arises when players realize they can abuse that 60 seconds of immunity. At the very least, DS should deactivate once you touch a gen/hook rescue someone else.
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And if the killer is TuNnEling then you will get to use it.
I just want the 60 seconds of god mode to shut off if the killer isn't doing the "wrong" thing.
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I'm 50/50 on it. I like the idea, but it has poor execution. I see more people being toxic with it as free immunity from grabs and being hooked than seeing it as a Anti Tunnel Perk.
Nothing like hooking a survivor than another 1 or 2 survivors and finding someone from 1 or 2 hooks earlier only to be hit with DS because your "tunneling"
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If you have hooked 2 people and found someone again in 60 seconds, I'd say you are doing just fine. 😂
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As a killer main I believe DS is a fine perk and does a good job of being a "Anti-tunnel" option for survivors, However I can't tell you the amount of times where I have hooked other survivors in that 60 second span to then get DS'd by this guy because I'm "Tunneling". I feel like a good change would be something along the lines of "If a survivor gets hooked while this perk is active, it gets deactivated".
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Just a game I had a few days ago with a friend.
Rank 1 Spirit who was actually really good dont remember map or perks. Had 3 or 4 gens left.
In a 2 man SWF with a friend when killer who slugged me had 2 people on hook. As he picked me up I DS'ed him as his Devour Hope popped and than both survivors were saved. We went on to leave through the exit gate about 3 minutes later. DS was on a sliver almost thought it ran out tbh.
The Spirit lost all pressure almost simultaneously due to a 5 second stun and picking me up. Went on to have the entire board reset within a minute. Had at least 1 more DS if not 3 more to possibly deal with.
Ofc this is a "fine" situation because the Spirit was clearly in a winning position. This Spirit did not tunnel, camp, or in any way act toxic.
This is not a common occurrence, but it's definitely not rare.
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Tunneling gets killers kills way more than DS gets survivors escapes. It is really rare for a killer to get DS'd on after chasing down and hooking not one, but TWO MORE people, before picking up the person with DS.
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Remember I said 1 to 2 survivors. I'm just saying while I do agree DS is necessary for the meta I do think it needs to be changed.
After hooking 2 survivors than picking me up do you think that game should of ended that way? Do you think thats fair? What did the Spirit do wrong? She played the game without resorting to any behavior that should of been considered toxic.
That person rightfully deserved a 3k or a even a 4K, but got punished for being highly efficient and a good killer. They probably picked me up because as you said having 2 hooks within 60 seconds is rare. At that point DS changed from a Anti Tunnel perk to a Punishment for doing well. In my mind that makes DS unbalanced and poorly designed.
Even if it was one other person than me. I would still say the same stuff. So while on paper DS = Anti Tunnel. The reality is it acts the same way old Ruin did. It punishes the wrong people while being useless against the ones you want it for.
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Yes but you are suggesting changing a vital perk because of this singular experience. This does not happen the majority of the time. Is that unfortunate for her in that match? Yes. Should that be the basis to change it for everyone? No.
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And this is how killers get gen rushed and then complain about how OP survivors are.
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I get this situation on a semi regular basis. Maybe 1/20 matches or once every couple days depends how much i play. All they would need to change is make it so if someone is hooked then any active DS is deactivated. It's not even a massive change to the perk or alters it in a way that it becomes useless.
Unless your toxic than it will become useless.
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Just make DS so that it deactivates if you go do gens, heal, or enter a locker. And at the same time just make it 100% automatic skill check chance to balance this change. This way the perk turns into an anti-tunnel perk that actually does its job in a way that it can not be abused by survivors
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Yes rare or not killers shouldn't have to constantly take the short straw on stuff like this. Swf survivor sided egc survivor sided ds survivor sided etc etc if you healed worked on a gen and other people got chased and hooked you weren't tunneled so anti tunneling perk shouldn't activate
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If a killer tunnels you into a locker, they still tunneled you. I would be amenable to changing it so that if the killer hooks someone else it deactivates because you legit can't claim any tunnel at that point. But not being able to use your perk because you used a chased enough to use a map resource? Nah fam.
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You realize by doing that you’re giving a person who is good at looking free reign to ######### on the killer right? So you’d rather than an indefinite timer on 3 people while 1 person gen jockies and the killer takes turns getting ######### on. All you’re doing is making SWF more obnoxious.
if DS got changed in this way I would be hitting customs nonstop for 2 weeks so I can improve my looping and just purposefully get hooked once so I can piss the killer off all game.
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I would be fine with that. 👍
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Lmfao @ EGC is survivor sided. No. Def not. Swf is not survivor sided... The game has been continually tuned because of swf to the dismay of solo survivors and random teams. It's swf sided 😂 DS is a response to rampant tunneling. Survivors put up with a lot of horseshit play from killers that has no limits what so ever. 🙄🙄🙄 I don't feel bad that they have to hit them a whole extra time. Lol
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I'm one of the few people on here who legitimately plays both sides and enjoys both equally. Everytime I want a change it's because I see the poor design and a possible way to fix it. I try to weigh out the nerfs/buffs for both sides.
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Survivors aren't entitled to free unhooks 2 hut downs 3 hooks and 60 seconds of god mode
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It's not an entitlement, it's literally how both sides gain pts and rank in the game you weirdo.
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But you bring toolboxes and keys for fast matches
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Toolboxes were nerfed. Keys are a rare fail safe since hatch changes. Anything else?
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Being immune to anything for a minute is no, not fine. It punishes the killer for playin too well and rewards the survivors for making dumb mistakes as long as it's active. It's original purpose is anti tunelling but it does a lot more than that, so should deactivate when you hook someone else.
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It seems like people agree on making it deactivate when you work on a generator. I wouldn't mind that but I would prefer it deactivating during EGC, it is just too powerful.
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An anti tunnel perk that last 60 seconds is the most bruh™ moment ever
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No thanks to both. Deactivating if someone else is hooked seems most reasonable.
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He has a point with the EGC part, but that one should and needs to be tested not just implemented.
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Keys rare lol yea ok and toolboxes were just recently nerfed survivors told killers to adapt when they were gloating about ruin well they did camp tunnel slugg but the killers that still follow your survivor rulebook shouldn't be punished by 60 seconds of god mode
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DS Rework: DS activates for 3 minutes after being unhooked or wiggling off the hook. Hitting a skill check lets you get off the killers grasp like usual. DS deactivates when one of the following conditions are met: When you start repairing a gen, when entering a locker, when healing or being healed, when another survivor is hooked. This would make DS way fairer. It is supposed to be an anti-tunneling perk and not "im invincible for 1 minute and can do whatever I want"-perk.
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The only Nerf I think DS needs is this: If you unhook someone, DS is deactivated.
Why?
Simple. If I'm coming back to a hook after hearing the notification someone's been unhooked I have two options: #1. Go for the person who got unhooked or #2. Go for the person who did the unhooking. If the person who did the unhooking JUST got unhooked, then I risk DS no matter who I go after between the two. If you're unhooking someone, there's a 0% chance you're being tunneled.
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just remove the perk please.....
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For the way you're talking about, it was early-middle game. If spirit lost all his pressure in the early mid-game just because you had DS, perhaps it wasn't a good killer, or perhaps that spirit lost focus, a lot of people get angry just for being hit by DS just a single time.
Unless you're in late game and EGC is on where the game is almost decided, well, it's not really a life-changing perk.
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It was mid to late actually. Gens popped pretty quickly after. We were out the exit pretty quickly in a few minutes. The Spirit was good still was pretty good afterwards. I more or less summarized the whole scenario pretty briefly because I'm at work.
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Pretty much this. Only once in a blue moon do I get hit by DS.
People that complain about it game after game are tunneling and oblivious to it. Like when you tell a killer they were doing it post game and they deny it or deny camping even if they clearly never stepped more than 12m away from the hook.
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No, simply because multiple survivors running it can literally allow them to bully the killer, by giving them a "pick your poison" situation.
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there's no point in running it unless someone camps but in a regular match ######### awful you barely get to use it
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Simply not true, though.
Imagine this scenario:
Killer hooks you, goes to chase a Nea.
Nea is downed.
While Nea is downed, Meg comes for the save. You get saved. A second later, Nea gets hooked.
The killer comes back to the hook, chases you and downs you. But you don't have your DS! Even though, you know, you were actually tunneled.
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Yes, the game needs a more perks that focus on anti-tunneling.
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It's not hard to remember whose icon changes when you interact with a survivor 😂😂😂
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Except from some abuses like lockers Ds is fine, its fair and a nice perk. And that is coming from a Killer main btw.
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It's better than it used to be in most situations, but depending on how well the killer played it can be a little bit counter-productive to the concept that it is an anti-tunnel perk. In my opinion the timer should be removed if another survivor is downed and hooked after you were unhooked, or if a set distance has been gained between both parties for x amount of seconds.
In its current state it can be abused, especially by coordinated SWF groups, as well as proc even when there has been no indication via the use of common sense that a tunnel has occurred.
Is it better than the old dribble to the hook days? Yes. Are there still ways to make this reworked perk better? Absolutely.
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Imagine thinking that survive with friends isnt a survivor sided concept
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DS simply isn't an anti-tunnel perk.
If a killer eats my DS then they most certainly will be after me straight away
It is mostly used for the final escape when hooked near the gate where everyone has healed up and then I am hopefully unhooked with BT and surrounded by fellow survivors. If I'm confident I'll fall short of the exit just in time to crawl to the finish line or be picked up for the killer to eat DS, it's an old trick but goes to show BT is an anti-tunnel perk where DS allows a god like status for a whole minute in a short game.
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It should go up to 90 seconds.
Deactivate if a survivor: touches a gen, gets full heal, saves, or killer downs another survivor.
Congratulations this perk got x10 better for both sides.
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Imagine ignoring the fact that majority of groups are random and solo survivors have it the worst when the game is balanced for SWF.
I'm not saying SWF isnt an advantage - I'm saying its not an advantage for anyone but people who SWF.
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I actually had this happen today in a Wraith match...I get hooked, the killer knows where my injured teammate is nearby and downs/hooks him a split second after I'm off hooked. My feet hit the ground and the killer was immediately on me again and downed me before I could get anywhere. I'm back to thinking DS is fine as-is. 😂
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Thank you for agreeing I am correct about keys. <3 Toolboxes are nerfed...does it matter when? And no good survivor cared about Hex: Ruin. I was surprised they changed it. Killers always camped, tunneled, and slugged. What changed their behavior to be the most toxic it has ever been is DC penalties. Because Killers can now act as vile as they want without any recourse. Even if someone suicides, they get credit for a hook and a kill. Also, DS isn't 60 seconds of god mode. It is 60 seconds of being able to take one extra hit after you're off hooked.
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DS is just a bandaid on a huge problem, killers feel the need to tunnel people to death to win and is just boring as hell. Same now with constant slugging and the now overly used infectious fright. Tightening down on gen speeds by there being less players and constant snow-balling are the most important things now for killer I feel.
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No because it only works once and isn't very effective at dealing with being tunneled. I have some ideas how to address at least one tunnel situation but it might be strong.
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Quoted for truth.
If DS deactivated for all these dumb reasons people ask for it would be worthless because of situations like this, which are actually very common. It's dumb to be robbed of your perk when it's activation is dependent on another player.
DS is just fine how it is. The ONLY change I would make is that if you use DS when the gates are opened, you get your own personal Blood Warden for maybe 20s. Just as a means to prevent people from BM'ing at the gate by waiting for you to pick them up. With a personal BW you can't do that, and if you use DS when the gates are opened then you have to run from the killer in another chase to escape.
If you complain about survivors jumping into a locker, then stop playing like a bot. If they do this they are baiting you to grab them. Either leave them or eat the DS and get rid of it. It's really not that big of a deal. If you aren't tunneling and get hit by DS, guess whose fault that is? YOURS! For not paying attention to how long it's been since you last hooked that person.
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