Moving Borrowed Time away from TR trigger
In a nutshell, Borrowed Time is too easily countered by the undetectable and oblivious status effects, as well as tiny terror radius killers. If it isn't Wraith cloaked, it's being asleep against Freddy, or Ghost Face in Night Shroud, or Pig crouched. You get the idea.
The easiest solution is to change Borrowed Time from being triggered by the terror radius to a meter range (let's say the standard heartbeat radius, 32 meters), or have Borrowed Time always activate for a short duration (as was suggested in comments below).
Edit: offering an alternative solution, besides a distance trigger, based on helpful feedback below.
Comments
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I agree with this, as I think a Perk simply not working because of Killer shenanigans like that is pretty silly, BUT it'd have to come with a larger Borrowed Time change.
Currently, Terror Radius shenanigans are the only proper counter Killers have to BT for hook defense and Borrowed Time is already an extremely dominant Perk in the already competitive Survivor Perk meta. This kind of adjustment to make BT more consistent would be great, but should come with other BT changes to stop the Perk from going out of control.
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I agree. On top of that you got the opposite end where a big terror radius gives people BT when they shouldn't have it. The killers that usually have this happen to them are doctor and legion.
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Distance-based would still be easily circumventable via mobility. BT should proc regardless and give a shortened timer to compensate. Let's say 10 instead of 15 seconds. Although 15 is more realistic for basement hooks. That way they can get to a tile.
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Agreed
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Just faced a Deathslinger with M&A ... this perk is fun to ambush survivors from the killer side and I like it a lot ... but it is so stupid when the killer is proxy-camping. I don't think this perk has been designed to promote proxy-camping by contrast to insidious perk
@devs: just use a meter criterion to decide if BT triggers or not. Maybe killers with undetectable status may bypass BT but all the "24m TR with M&A perk" killers should triggers it if they are quite close to the hook. And you should also rework Freddy mechanism and BT : one of the most deadly killer with built-in ability to disable an altruistic perk ... that sounds so wrong !
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Agreed, but it should also be changed so the killer has to have been in that range for a bit since that survivor was hooked, say maybe 10 seconds? Of course survivors will then be able to tell when their BT will proc
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I think it should just activate when a killer is within 28 meters. I also think it should have a fifteen second cooldown between activations.
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Sure. And make whatever damage the unhooked Survivor receives be redirected to the unhooker, or remove Deep Wounds and force the Survivor to heal and go down if ignored (like pre-Legion BT).
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So basically remove any form of counterplay to BT and encourage more rank 20 plays in high ranks?
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The counterplay is to not camp. Or, at least go for the unhooker rather than the freshly unhooked? A good killer can easily secure a 4k without camping. Of course so much of a match is just dependant on RNG anyways (map, randomly generated map layout, etc.).
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I mean, if you bring a perk to get out a survivor from a camping situation - the only one that you yourself can use - then it shouldn't not work just because the terror radius tiny/non-existent.
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If survivors farm each other with BT it doesn't matter if the killer camps or not. To give a good example:
A survivor can farm with BT before a Nurse can blink across the map, or before a Billy can even rev up his chainsaw. Sure killers can go for the unhook but for M1 killers it's almost a waste of time, since they need 2 hits, and the 1st hit grants a speed boost, and then the unhooked can bodyblock with BT, and has DS as an insurance policy in case they get targeted, not mentioning Dead Hard to avoid even needing to use DS in the 1st place. Now if there's a locker nearby that's 60 seconds of immunity. This is why I implied that BT already, in its current state, encourages rank 20 plays (farming in front of the killer). With your proposal, killers like GF, Pig, Wraith, and T1 Myers would lose their counterplay to BT. 32 meters is a lot more distance that it seems, and there's certain situations where camping is necessary.
Example: I hook a survivor next to 3 gens in close of proximity, with one of them about 80% finished, another at 40%, and one probably being worked on from scratch. What do I do? I can't leave the area, because if I do, the survivors finish the gens and save the guy on hook and adrenaline their way to the gate or a jungle gym.
BT is already busted enough as is paired with DS and other second chance perks, it doesn't need an unnecessary buff. It's like saying "oh let's change noed to where when it activates, instead of one totem becoming a hex and only having to destroy that one totem, all the remaining totems need to be cleansed otherwise noed doesn't deactivate", It'd encourage more killers to play like potatoes during early-mid game only to get a 4K because of one perk.
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I honestly think Borrowed should always apply for a shortened timer like previously suggested considering killers like Hag or Demogorgon.
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Bumping this, as there has been some helpful and supportive comments I would like the devs to consider. I've added their feedback into my original post. This perk needs some serious fixing.
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Just remove killers from the game
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I think a much easier solution would be to just give Borrowed Time two different triggers:
-If the killer is within 16m (or maybe 24m or 32m) of the hooked survivor when they are rescued (regardless of terror radius), the survivor gets 8 seconds of BT.
-If the hooked survivor is within the killer's terror radius when they are rescued, they get 8 seconds of BT.
BUT, both could activate simultaneously to provide the full benefit of BT.
Survivors would still get to use BT against the likes of Freddy, Wraith, Pig, and GF when they camp, but the perk would also be less punishing to killers like Doc and Legion when they don't.
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Honestly the perk should just always trigger. It only gives you the status for 15 seconds which isn't that long. If the killer is far away and you try to rush them to take a hit they will easily be able to down you by waiting it and if they're nearby then it's just functioning hte same as BT was before. There's really no reason for it to be restricted to if the killer is near since even if they aren't the temporary nature of the effect will make it not useful. This would also counter the type of campers who stay at a distance but then rush for the hook the momment someone is going to get the unhook, ie hag with traps, demo putting a portal at the hook, huntress holding a hatchet up at the hook from a distance away, ect.
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Yes, BT should activate when within 28 meters of the killer, have the previous bleed-out conditions returned that were dependent on healing, and have a 10 second cool-down between activations.
Just imo
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I wanted to revive this thread, as months have passed and Borrowed Time has not been changed. It can still be denied its one and only function. Devs, please rework this perk to either always trigger, or at least trigger based on a killer's proximity.
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I think BT be changed to where if the unhooked survivor is hit the injury is inflicted on the rescuer instead. It would make sense with the name (you are borrowing that time from your rescuer) along with the proposed within xx meters of the killer as OP suggested.
That would give the perk the same current effect (unhooked survivor is protected briefly) and make the rescuer have to play around that knowledge (can't save while injured, if I go down then the protection is nullified, etc...)
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No..the perk would be one wildly overpowered if there was no downside to it
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