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Can Anyone Explain What I Did Wrong Here?!
Comments
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Saying Jane was not around the hook even though she clearly was in proximity for BT to go off is blatantly biased.
"She was on the complete other side of the building,": This is still within 32 meters range. That's the logic you and some other forum users keep using here. You're describing the building as if it's some massive infinite that I so greedily decided to go far out of my way to find the Jane who is still within my terror radius.
"You decide to go for the 4K": God forbid I do my job and make sure I'm able to kill as many survivors as I can, which I completely outplayed by the way.
"Although you already have two on the ground with 5 gens up": Two on the ground that I outplayed which was possible due to Infectious Fright being used as intended. Again with the number of gens, 0 gens or 5 gens makes no difference in the way DS was used.
"You CHOSE to pick her up knowing the DS mechanic": I'm sorry that through all that was going on with adrenaline gameplay and awareness of the situation regarding 4 survivors, that I didn't realize Hillbilly's stopwatch didn't go off yet telling me to wait for DS to not punish me.
"You were punished because of your haste and choices:" Meanwhile, while I capitalize almost perfectly on all the survivors mistakes, the Jane, who I clearly tunneled and deserve that DS, saves the Nancy with BT, allows her to take a hit to then pick up the Zarina and find the David. But yeah, clearly I was in the wrong here.
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In 90% of games those 10 seconds mean you just lost
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The difference is, in all the scenarios you described, the opponent you are facing went from almost losing to victory because they pulled their ######### together and pushed themselves to win. Their skill and their prowess at the game allowed them to gain a clawhold and, ultimately, being better than you at the game. It was a matter of mustering up the skill to outplay you.
DS is not a matter of skill. It is a matter of pressing a button. The Killer has proven themselves to be better than you by bringing you inches within loss, and you have done nothing to be better than them, yet despite that, you still get a second chance. DS is bringing a Perk and pushing the space bar when the time calls. There is no skill, no outplaying the person about to beat you. In all the above scenarios, winning when you’re about to lose is a matter of “I earned a second chance for myself by overcoming the obstacle presented before me using my own merits at the game.” Decisive, however, is a matter of “I get a completely free second chance because screw you, I said so.”
Huge difference there.
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No all the examples are of a player assuming victory when victory has not actually been earned, then making a massive mistake and basically handing the win to the other side, who capitalized on that mistake to turn the game.
Downing survivors is not winning the game. KILLING survivors is winning the game. Downing a survivor is not the same as killing them.
All he had to do was go pick up someone else. JUST ADMIT THAT HE MADE A MISTAKE. You won't even though it's clear as day.
"NOED is not a matter of skill. It is a matter of waiting for the other side to finish their objectives."
See how this logic works? Literally the exact same arguments you use against DS can be used against NOED. But I'm sure you find some mental hoops to jump through to make it not the same.
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The difference is, victory HAD been achieved here. The Killer did not make a mistake by picking up a Survivor to end the game that he’d already won. The Survivor simply got to look him in the eyes after they’ve proven themselves to be unable to best him and said, “No.”
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OMG
No victory had not been achieved. The only way you can confirm victory is when the results screen pops up.
The killer DID make a mistake by picking up the ONLY SURVIVOR WHO COULD TAKE AWAY THE WIN.
Killer did not already win if the survivors were not dead and one had DS active.
In all reality, the survivor was probably more like...
... just replace the words "signing it" with "picking me up".
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He clearly didn't make any mistakes guys, don't bully him 👌
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Did you really accuse me of playing like a bot for outplaying all 4 survivors? Talk about “killer biased” it’s hard to say the survivor biased is strong with your opinion.
Im sorry I didn’t wait to hear Hillbilly’s stopwatch go off to make sure it’s safe to pick up the survivor with everything else I have to be aware of at the moment.
Unbreakable on the other survivors? Yeah that’s what the perk is designed for. Had one of the other survivors gotten up due to Unbreakable then YES I would accept I got outplayed. However, what you’re suggesting is that I was outplayed by the survivor using DS as intended, when it was clearly a flaw in design of the perk itself.
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Yes. Picking up the only survivor who could DS you is very much a bot move. You didn't even hesitate, you did it immediately which suggests that you didn't even put any thought into it. That is what a bot does, sorry if that hurts to hear but it's the truth.
You asked "What did I do wrong here?", then I and several others tell you EXACTLY what you did wrong (pick up the Jane instead of one of the other two survivors) yet you can't sit here and acknowledge your mistake? C'mon dude, like really? REALLY?!?
Doing your job would have been making the smart move to avoid DS. Doing your job does not mean assuming you won when you have every survivor slugged.
Unbreakable isn't even a factor here because you picked up the ONLY survivor who could DS you. Literally the only player who could DEFINITELY take away your win.
You messed up. Admit it. Stop trying to explain it away as "the game is broken and unfair" because it's not. YOU MESSED UP. Period.
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Honestly I agree with the OP, it seems to be off here. he did not go after the one in the distance doing who knows what. got another hook, then downed one then a second. the last one on the other side now going after why? who knows what they are doing. that person was only trying to avoid once they had been found. and he got ds'd for that and I think that's crap, he did not tunnel what so ever. didn't go after them for a while and that person hadn't healed in any way (possible they can't on their own).
NOW I also agree with Peanits here that he did make the mistake of picking that person up just a tad early... I disagree, the first down if had unbreakable would be getting up before he got back and the other as well if he were to have gone back so I think the smart play would have wait by jane for 10 more seconds then pickup.
TO THE OP: you didn't do anything wrong, DS punishes killers for being too efficient. I've been punished for this myself I hook survivor#1, and then I get another hooked, and chasing a third, hook third just after #1 gets unhooked, go after the unhooker and get that one hooked (3 on hook one not) what am I supposed to do? go into a corner now and wait for the first hooked to unhook all of them with BT or take them down. I took them down, they had DS, and all 4 got out the hatch (gens had just gotten done as i was hooking #2 as well) .... #1 had BT and as i was chasing them i couldn't get a hit as they kept shielding #1 (key as well) with their BT and hatch was right there couldn't get in to close it. so YES it needs to be re-worked but over all it's in a better state than it was before still a pita when you are effecient... oh might i mention they were all rank 15-17 (I was rank 14) at the time with BT 3 on characters other than bill.
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I play killer. I play survivor. I don't complain when i (very rarely) get struck by DS, no matter how many people i have downed or hooked, because i know the mechanics of the perk.
If i fell for it, it was my mistake, and i need to accept my mistake and learn from it instead of believing its the fault of others or that it never could've been avoided in the first place.
I don't see at all why taking Peanits suggestion is so hard and that you need to defend your gameplay as if it were equivalent to the bible, acceptance is the key to improvement.
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So are you saying that the perk description doesn't say that the perk has a 60 second timer and the circumstances don't change that?
Learn from this horrible thing that happened to you because you didn't consider that maybe this person had a DS or whatever and next time don't make the same mistake. You are literally complaining about a perk working the way it is supposed to.
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All four Survivors are completely disabled, unable to work on their objectives, are reduced to a pitiful fraction of their base capabilities, and are going to all die anyway; hooking them will only speed up this process for the sake of pacing.
In any other game, this would absolutely be considered a loss. But because the devs have coddled Survivors with free second chance after free second chance, they have the power to say, “No, we haven’t lost” without actually mustering up any sort of merit to certify their point.
Notice how I’ve never actually denied the Killer made a mistake. He absolutely did. But my issue is not the repercussions of the mistake he made. My issue is that the game is so poorly-balanced that the “mistake” was even there to make at all.
In a war zone, placing your nation’s flag down on a battlefield with no enemy soldiers capable of fighting back is not a mistake. But in this game, it apparently is. That’s where my complaint lies.
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We can sit here and argue all day but the fact of the matter is DS was used in a way that is way outside it's original boundary. The player did not outplay me with any amount of skill so they do NOT deserve the merit of the perk as it was intended to be used.
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I'm saying that the perk was reworked to be designed as an anti-tunnel perk, that's part of the reason the stun time was increased from 3 seconds to 5 seconds and part of the reason Enduring was changed as well. The way the perk was used in this clip was more of a "immunity for 60 seconds." In no way is it being used as the developers had intended.
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I DID NOT HEAR THE FAT LADY.
In other words, the game is not actually over until it's over. It doesn't matter how much it looks like you won. Until that results screen pops up, the game is not over.
-Someone could use DS (which is what happened).
-Someone could have Unbreakable.
-He might not have had any free hooks when picking up one of them and they wiggle free.
-He maybe doesn't find the last one, the other 3 die and then the last one gets hatch.
-Same as above, but killer finds hatch and the last survivor has Adren.
-Someone could kobe.
There are multiple what-if scenarios where the game is not actually over. Stop saying it was over. It's not.
By this logic any group of survivors that get to gates and open them only to get sucked into an altruistic vortex of saves and die should have actually won the game. Because they were standing in the exit gate ready to leave, the game was basically over. SMH.
You made a mistake. You're right in that they didn't outplay you, but you are wrong to say DS was used "outside it's original boundary" whatever that means. DS isn't explicitly anti-tunnel. The sooner you realize that the sooner you will stop hating on a perk that has easy counter play.
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And with the exception of not being able to find a hook, all of what you described are examples of the free second chances I described above that, if the game were actually balanced, would be erased entirely. If the game isn’t over, that’s cool and all, but you should have to earn your victory, not have it handed to you on a silver platter. In all but that one instance, these are all cases where the game SHOULD be over, but the Survivors were given a free “No” button. The fat lady has already started singing by this point and I hear her loud and clear; if the Survivors want her to shut up, they should have to fight her and wrestle a bag over her head, not tell the developers to shut her up for them.
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Just take it out of the game completely if that's the case, because your idea would render it useless..
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Its a bs no skill second chance crutch perk that rewards failure but they want to require all killer perks and powers to require more and more skill biased entitled and hypocritical typical survivors
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"Saying Jane was not around the hook even though she clearly was in proximity for BT to go off is blatantly biased"...I don't even know what you're talking about here...no one was affected by BT in this video. You can't call my viewpoint biased for something that never happened in what you presented.
She was, in fact, completely on the opposite side of the building, which is probably around 25% of the width of that map. The building is pretty big. So no, she wasn't near the hook when you downed the last person and pursued her. You just have top tier Infectious Fright. I'm not begrudging you your perk, or your choice to go after her, but I use phrasing like, "you decided to go for the 4K" and "although you already have two on the ground with 5 gens up" to illustrate that it wasn't necessary for you to do so and still win this match. Probably with more points than you accomplished by face-rolling these four people.
"I'm sorry that through all that was going on with adrenaline gameplay and awareness of the situation regarding 4 survivors, that I didnt realize Hillbilly's stopwatch didn't go off yet telling me to wait for DS to not punish me"...You aren't being punished any worse than the survivors you downed at that hook. They made a huge mistake with timing and as a result were slugged and killed for their mistake. You made a mistake with timing in picking up a Jane you KNEW had DS and had very very recently got off the hook. The difference is, those survivor's mistake cost them a match that lasted less time than they stood in the lobby waiting for it, they got no points, and they depipped. Meanwhile all you were "punished" with for your miscalculation was the inconvenience of having to chase a survivor for a mere 10 additional seconds before killing everyone.
You're asking to change game mechanics because of your own poor judgement. That's not going to happen. That's why this is a terrible example.
I like the rest of the story for how this match went, even though you didn't show that in this thread. How would you know that the Nancy has BT if you didn't tunnel her off the hook...oh ye who never tunnels? I think the key word in your statement is "while I capitalize ALMOST perfectly on all the survivors mistakes"...there in lies the problem. You didn't. So your match was extended...but considering everyone was in the same area and still injured, I have to assume you continued to slug everyone and still won this match.
"God forbid I do my job and make sure I'm able to kill as many survivors as I can, which I completely outplayed by the way"...This is not your job. This is a video game. 5 people enter a match to have a fun, spooky round of hide and go seek. You would do well to remind yourself of that next time you find yourself in a match of unfortunate randoms, like these. I don't know that I would get too far up your high horse about overtly out playing these people. David made an idiot decision by fast vaulting that window. I understand the Feng's choice to stay hidden but close to off-hook Nancy, assuming you would pick up the David. She had no recourse once revealed as an injured survivor. Same goes for the Jane. I would have done the same thing, in terms of trying to stay within a reasonable radius to make an off-hook or a quick heal while you picked someone up. You were well served by your perk. You made the choice to bring the perk, so good on you. But nothing in this clip took a high amount of skill.
At the end of the day DS worked as expected and BECAUSE of DS you and the survivors were afford more game play and more points. Again, this is a terrible example of why killers think DS is OP and the results were the directly related to your choices in game. Devs are never going to change this game mechanics because you don't perform well under pressure.
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Your mistake was failing to play around a very common survivor perk. Understanding the tools that your opponent has (or may have) and reacting accordingly is an important part of doing well in this game.
For example, as a survivor you should always assume and try to play around popular killer perks like BBQ, NOED, A Nurse’s Calling, etc. because if you don’t, you’re liable to pay for it and give the killer a chance to snowball.
Same with killer. Always assume DS, Unbreakable, Dead Hard, etc. and play accordingly. There’s counterplay, so use it. The game will frustrate you less.
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Some of you guys are looking at this wrong. It's not punishment for the killer. It's a survivor benefit that a lot of times goes wasted. It works once, and your done with it. Perk slot gone. Now you're playing a three perk survivor. A benefit to the survivors is not a punishment to the killers. A detriment? Potentially.
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I mean I always keep a number in my head of people who have been unhooked recently every game I memorize who is who, and if I suspect they have DS I make sure that the back of my brain is done counting to 60, or if idc of eating a DS I just go straight for it if it won’t hurt me
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I don't see the problem. Sure, you got hit with a stun, but with how they were playing, I don't see them making it to endgame. Plus, if they did, you got rid of the DS early on. Only time it really hurts to me is when they do it in the exit gate, where I really think it needs to be disabled.
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How did he tunnel? It's clearly a bad idea to try and unhook someone in FRONT of the killer.
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"Can Anyone Explain What I Did Wrong Here?!"
Mistake clearly explained.
That's not fair, I didn't tunnellllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.
Meanwhile, playing with chainsaw charge time add-ons which are generally considered actually OP.
Here's the answer to your question. You're a hypocrite for calling something OP while using actual OP add-ons on one of the most powerful killers in the game and immediately going for the 4k by slugging all survivors (which is obvious from your build).
This video more than anything is a great example of everything wrong with Billy rather than what's wrong with DS. Which was successful in extending the game somewhat and making the game just a bit fairer for the survivors.
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@Speshul_Kitten in the future slug them and set a timer to 60 seconds and chill only doing anything if they get up
remember they got up to 4 mins maybe let them chill for 120 seconds.
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@Speshul_Kitten Next time you slug everybody make sure to keep then in the floor for a minute waiting for the unbreakable and after that, do a favor for your health going to the kitchen to drink some water. If you don't want to eat or make exercises while they bleed out, open the dead by daylight forum and answer some questions while they are bleeding to death like I'm doing right now!
Honestly, I can't see enough rewards to piping if I already got the rank 1 achievement and all the perks I wanted, so just make survivors suffer for bad game design, the same way they make me suffer when they exploit loops and game mechanics.
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Woud be nice to know when ds is over though. Some sort of timer of possible ds still being active. Please.
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The smarter thing to do would have been to prevent an unbreakable play. Not much to cry about with that mistake OP made.
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Who cares? You probably caught her right after consdring she clearly isnt the best looper
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It's hard to calculate that 60 seconds, I think. Survivors get the benefit of a timer in the HUD, but the Killer has to rely on an inner stopwatch.
When someone is really busy within that minute (like OP was), it's easy to miscalculate the actual time passed, especially when you're pushing the 45 second mark, or so.
Sure, we can say 'pick up the first-downed', but it's hard to fault someone for being 10 or 15 seconds off their estimation
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ah,ds saves the day again,I dont think I ever had a match without at least 1 survivor to run either ds or unbreakable,"but they are definetly balanced perks that need no change"
as a survivor all you have to do is run ds and unbreakable,this is like ez mode for survivor,if you play half decent you'll probably escape because of these crutch perks,definetly not BROKEN at all,especially in swf.
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Which is fine, but the OP shouldn't then call the results of their miscalculation a punishment as though there is something wrong with the perk. This was counterable and a more mindful killer would have done this differently to reap the full benefit of their downs.
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I completely understand what you mean, and you're not wrong. I just have a different feeling about it, I think.
I can understand why they feel like it's a punishment, though. When I've healed someone and helped finish a gen, then get downed and STILL have a chance to use DS, it even feels cheap to me and I'm the one running it.
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That doesn't change the fact that this person was punished by an anti-tunnel perk for picking up the unhooked survivor after downing literally every other living survivor first
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DS is a perk with mutli-functionality. Many perks have multi-functionality or different uses depending on the situation. You shouldn't feel bad about using it - killers don't feel bad about using any means necessary to reach their main objective - including ruining the match for other people. Survivors shouldn't feel bad about using the perks they were provided by developers that can be easily countered. And like I said previously, be "punished" by DS for miscalculating who they picked up first in this match was equal to those survivors being killed for their miscalculation on how to save the person on the hook. Except the killer got a temporary stun and still killed all 4 people. The survivors likely got no points and depipped.
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No offense, but just reread your own posting
"I picked her up to hook her further away, so i can then see the auro of the other two survivors"
You tried to capitalise from a perk (BBQ)
And so did Jane (DS)
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A lot of people seem to have completely missed the entire point OP is actually trying to make. It's not the fact that the situation could have been avoided, but rather OP is complaining that the situation existed to begin with.
DS, as it stands, is an anti-momentum perk despite being reworked to be specifically "anti-tunnel." It has utility outside its perceived intended purpose and this is what a lot of killers take issue with.
In OP's case: Yes, there were 5 gens still up and yes, the other 3 survivors were either hooked or slugged, but this is irrelevant. Jane clearly wasn't being tunnelled, yet she was still awarded a free escape, and it was this free escape that let them BT unhook and pick up the 2 slugs (as @Speshul_Kitten explained). This scenario can occur in any situation: Whether it be 5 gens or none, 2 slugs or no slugs.
Personally, I would have slugged Jane, but this is still a clear example of the killer being punished for downing survivors quickly - which is just silly. Much like NOED, which punishes survivors for doing gens fast.
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The killer was not being punished "for taking advantage of their mistakes", you just made your own mistake. Just own that the killer should have made some different decisions here and move on. This is not on DS, the Jane used it appropriately. Especially in a full team slug situation, she just got extremely lucky. They did make mistakes, but so did the killer.
Also no one has pointed out that this play was only possible because the killer was running a perk that just showed them the location of all survivors (not defending their play, it was a bit rough). They are mad that one situational perk popped and messed up what was in their mind a great play completely dismissing that running an aura perk that showed the location of all the other players might have been a little OP. DS was not the only perk in play in this video and not even the most overt.
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Because as a killer you are not allow to take advantage of the survivor mistake that how ot is and it will always be like that unless they reduce the timer on ds
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What magical guessing game do you expect us to play where we instantly know survivors have these perks? Considering the amount of free info you give survivors about our perks and add ons, feels like a one way street....
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Firstly I'd like to say you were right in the first place, I just wanted to ask since you mentioned it that this lerk can be abused by jumping in a locker straight off a gen which is an abuse of the perks mechanics. Since you guys have already taken note of this, is it something you guys are looking at?
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Dude just have fun playing the game then...you're quick to point out their mistakes by staying by the hook but fail to notice you made a mistake by picking up the wrong survivor...anticipate ds and you literally won't have an issue w it. It seriously only lasts 60 seconds...if someone jumps in a locker let em be who cares...best part about ds is only noticing it in the endgame results.
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Filthy tunneler!
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DS : Defeats tunneling
You did not tunnel
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But that isn't tunneling
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I'm sure this has already been said, but clearly the mistake was not slugging everyone. Everyone likes that, right?
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not sure why killers think DS is op, like having the ability to slug 3/4 of the team isn’t.
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Nah bruh. It's only fair that the person who ran to a dead zone after an Infectious proc and then vaulted a Z-wall into a dead end gets another crack at it when you have the whole team slugged. Only fair. Like, can we actually talk about why the survivor gets a second chance after an awful play there?
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