So you don't think Freddy is weak?
Hello, Saylia here! This post is a bit ranty, I made it on Youtube because someone felt Freddy was perfectly fine, and in some situations overall really, really strong. So here for you today, I have my rant with some profanity edited out in order to respect the forums.
Without any further adieu:
A small snip-it about me and my love for the sweater guy:
Rank 1 Freddy main, 1.5 thousand hours here with 800 on Freddy.
Watched the Nightmare on Elm street movies since a wee girl, absolutely love the franchise and his amazing concept.
Please understand that all of my thoughts, opinions, and emotions, come from the perspective of a player who reaches rank 1 every single season and plays there until rank reset.
What's my problem with him right now, even with how much I love him, and I love dead by daylight?
Freddy, with the best add-ons, is a Trapper without Traps, A wraith without his power, he doesn't teleport, doesn't have a chainsaw, he literally just hits people. His power lets him hit people. Alright so lets think about it a bit more, his power is a bit more than that, right?
1. Reverse Deerstalker
2. Aura reading outside terror radius
3. Reduced action speed
4. He's invisible.
1 is nice because you get what is essentially a free perk. You can play around it, and it's a good mechanic for him, but this does nothing for the chase, and sees exactly zero use outside of hunting down your 4th kill, ignoring D-strike, otherwise you'd just pick them and hook them.
This is literally only useful if you lost them in the middle of the chase. If this happened, you have to run back after them, from which they have more than enough time to reach the next loop, or with self care (the perk you should assume every survivor has) you may just have to wait a nice 7 seconds right after that if they got a lucky ass skill check. Sleeping multiple survivors? Great. You can only chase one. They'll break out or get woken up by a friend in T-minus 10 seconds and they're back to work.
This literally almost never applies ever. If for some reason your RNG is the absolute worst, at the very worst you're still making SOME progress on that generator or self care, until that skillcheck comes out. Your options for waking up? Find a gen. Be injured. Or Find someone awake, and that is extremely often that one of those are available to you. But late game you dont have gens right? Yeah except at that point you've reached late game and that's not what a killer wants to see. And even then... gens are done. How is that action speed much more helpful?
The one, and only, true, power he has. He is invisible. This makes stealth HARDER. Not IMPOSSIBLE. I've absolutely not been able to find someone as sweater boy, sometimes it literally just happens and you dont want to waste too much time looking. Being invisible opens up some key mind-game potential that other killers don't have access to, which is sweet, and fun. What's wrong with that then? Exactly that. It's a mind game. Killers, can LOSE mind games. If the survivor thinks about what Freddy is doing, and uses his "reappearance time" to see where he's heading, it's not hard to be in the Freddy's mind and juke it.
Two cute things I've learned to use to my advantage as a Freddy main: Survivors attempting to do cute corner jukes or window jukes always get smacked because they're glowing obnoxiously bright blue, and his power can be used as a small scanning tool in the event of corn or extremely dark characters against extremely dark terrain, I'm looking at you bloody Claudette in the corner.
And this is all for.. being able to hit them like a normal killer can... lol
So what else can survivors do? alright other than that sexy self care everyone's running, at least he still gets that first hit right? It's guaranteed!
Mmmph... unless
2. they reach a pallet and do the smart thing and time it
3. they pop that sprint burst and fly off like a bullet so that first hit literally doesn't happen
4. that awesome adrenaline pops off and they wake up, forcing you to sleep them once again
5. Dead hard that incoming hit just in time if they know the timing
This is on top of D-strike, Ultra rares, which ALREADY make the life of NORMAL killers difficult.
Then how about people rushing your hook saves and running out the gate before you touch them? How about those two bugs in his kit, where his auto-aim will target awake survivors. Or that bug where if you swing before they enter dream state you'll blade wipe anyways if they enter it during your hit.
Bugs can't be counted? Alright sorry we'll stick to the intended gameplay, what about his ability to watch you work on generators and totems for a solid 5 seconds before the survivor bothers to move because you're annoying them, that's intended gameplay right baby? Awh man they got a skillcheck in that 5 seconds? Dang. Hope you enjoy waiting 5 more. They popped another? you get to sit there longer. Meanwhile the other 3 are on their own separate gens while you pray to RNG gods this guy stops getting so many freaking skillchecks.
If you lose to Freddy, you played bad. Somehow, or another, you messed up. Does that mean you can't do good with Freddy? Nope. Even at rank 1, yes, you can in fact 4K.
And heres a couple reasons why:
- Survivors make mistakes. ALL killers punish mistakes.
- Not all survivors take the game SO SERIOUSLY BRO. people play to have fun, it's pretty safe to say half the people at rank 1 are just like me and you, trying to talk to people in chat and hang out
- Survivors don't like Freddy, or never go against a Freddy, and find him to be awkward because you encounter 1 Freddy after every 30th Hillbilly.
But what happens when you find that group of rank 1 survivors who know his mechanics, play correctly, use the perks aforementioned, or otherwise just play with their 1,000+ hours of survivor game knowledge.
You'll wish you played Nurse.
This has been Saylia. I hope I've changed your mind if you thought Freddy was fine. If not, I respect that, please let me know why! ^_^
PS: If I had to give him love, I'd remove survivors being able to touch objectives (Gens, totems, exits) during strictly the dream transition. With over 800 hours of love for my sweater guy, that's all I've ever wanted, anything else would be a blessing from the gods.
PPS: The "Black Box" add-on is a meme and not ultra rare status.
Comments
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Have an idea I want to circulate around the community. Replacing the black box with a ultra rare that continuously sleeps survivors every minute after they wake up or make it so the obsession suffers from this effect the time can change dependent on how powerful it is but it is an ultra rare it should be powerful.
Alternatively make it so the black box put this obsession in a permanent sleep no wake up. Is this enforcing tunneling yes but currently the black box is utterly useless.4 -
But would the hook wake them up? Black box isnt worth the rarity, would be better if it gave a negative status to the obsession when asleep, like minus 5% movement speed. Nothing major needed since when used with dying light is actually really affectiveZarathos said:Have an idea I want to circulate around the community. Replacing the black box with a ultra rare that continuously sleeps survivors every minute after they wake up or make it so the obsession suffers from this effect the time can change dependent on how powerful it is but it is an ultra rare it should be powerful.
Alternatively make it so the black box put this obsession in a permanent sleep no wake up. Is this enforcing tunneling yes but currently the black box is utterly useless.1 -
If you do Class Photo and Z Block he becomes way WAY more powerful. You find 1 person you find everyone. No one can hide from you ever, and if you use it to sleep multiple people at once then chase them on and off, you can literally just stand somewhere and they will mind game themselves into your claw. I do stuff like sleep people while standing at the window until JUST before they fall asleep. They won't use the window, they will probably go to the pallet but I'm already standing there waiting for them.
You have to mindgame with Freddy, and you can do some really REALLY bizarre mindgames. Like if you find someone hiding don't sleep them right away. Follow them a bit it will freak them out they keep hearing the lullaby. If you really want to scare them, and they have something like MYC on them, just swing right before you put them to sleep. They will panic while they transition and mess up, then you got them.
The problem is people try to play Freddy like a normal killer when he's not. His power is 100% mind games. If you don't mind game with Freddy, and just try to play him like a normal killer, yes he will suck. When you do stuff like approach a running gen, walk in a circle around it with your power (and loud foot steps) then kick the gen, that's what normal killers do. If you are Freddy just walk up somewhere and stand there, waiting. I guarantee an immersed UE survivor will pop up from somewhere. Got a corn map? Walk through the corn like you walked away then come ALL the way around without disturbing the corn. Survivors will think you are walking away, when you are not, and they will start moving. If you can catch 2 of them on a gen, don't sleep the one that goes to run first, sleep the other one and stand behind them until they get off. Make it look like you will chase, but then follow the other guy. The slept guy will be REALLY confused and waste time trying to mind game you thinking you are trying to get them, but you're not. The awake guy will be really confused why he still hears a lullaby, and may lead you to other survivors. Rinse repeat, once they are all asleep you can watch them, and if they do something you don't want (gen, totem, heal) just pressure them. You do it long enough they get anxious and make a mistake then you can chase for a hook.
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1. Mind games are irrelevant vs good survivorsthesuicidefox said:If you do Class Photo and Z Block he becomes way WAY more powerful. You find 1 person you find everyone. No one can hide from you ever, and if you use it to sleep multiple people at once then chase them on and off, you can literally just stand somewhere and they will mind game themselves into your claw. I do stuff like sleep people while standing at the window until JUST before they fall asleep. They won't use the window, they will probably go to the pallet but I'm already standing there waiting for them.
You have to mindgame with Freddy, and you can do some really REALLY bizarre mindgames. Like if you find someone hiding don't sleep them right away. Follow them a bit it will freak them out they keep hearing the lullaby. If you really want to scare them, and they have something like MYC on them, just swing right before you put them to sleep. They will panic while they transition and mess up, then you got them.
The problem is people try to play Freddy like a normal killer when he's not. His power is 100% mind games. If you don't mind game with Freddy, and just try to play him like a normal killer, yes he will suck. When you do stuff like approach a running gen, walk in a circle around it with your power (and loud foot steps) then kick the gen, that's what normal killers do. If you are Freddy just walk up somewhere and stand there, waiting. I guarantee an immersed UE survivor will pop up from somewhere. Got a corn map? Walk through the corn like you walked away then come ALL the way around without disturbing the corn. Survivors will think you are walking away, when you are not, and they will start moving. If you can catch 2 of them on a gen, don't sleep the one that goes to run first, sleep the other one and stand behind them until they get off. Make it look like you will chase, but then follow the other guy. The slept guy will be REALLY confused and waste time trying to mind game you thinking you are trying to get them, but you're not. The awake guy will be really confused why he still hears a lullaby, and may lead you to other survivors. Rinse repeat, once they are all asleep you can watch them, and if they do something you don't want (gen, totem, heal) just pressure them. You do it long enough they get anxious and make a mistake then you can chase for a hook.
2. You shouldn't use Z block with class photo, you want the extended dream transition1 -
I'm a dirty Nurse main.
I immediately start having regrets whenever I play a killer that isn't Nurse.
On a serious note though, your discussion is very well written. Yes, Freddy has some balance issues.
But to be frank, killers as a whole have balance issues. If this game had less looping and more juking, things would be much better off.
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Considering it's an Ultra rare and we have ultra's as nasty as Iridescent head, would it be too much of a stretch of black box just said:
"Survivors cannot wake up"? Would that be too nasty?
Maybe remove Freddy's Aura reading to compensate?
Or maybe "cannot be woken up by other survivors"? something of that sort. Would be interesting.0 -
Freddy op, please nerf...
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All I want is the ability to pull people off of generators or totem0
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My problem with freddy is it doesn't feel freddy enough. Freddy needs some sort of nightmare powers in dream realm. Freddy messes with people like the doctor. So im just sad he was rushed and really hope he will be a new killer when they fix him. Let me choose like the doctor the ways i mess with someone. Let freddy choose his dream realms that provide new nightmare challenges.
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No z block, a long time to see people so use the uncommon dress add on to considerably decrease skill check chance while you look for others.thesuicidefox said:If you do Class Photo and Z Block he becomes way WAY more powerful. You find 1 person you find everyone. No one can hide from you ever, and if you use it to sleep multiple people at once then chase them on and off, you can literally just stand somewhere and they will mind game themselves into your claw. I do stuff like sleep people while standing at the window until JUST before they fall asleep. They won't use the window, they will probably go to the pallet but I'm already standing there waiting for them.
You have to mindgame with Freddy, and you can do some really REALLY bizarre mindgames. Like if you find someone hiding don't sleep them right away. Follow them a bit it will freak them out they keep hearing the lullaby. If you really want to scare them, and they have something like MYC on them, just swing right before you put them to sleep. They will panic while they transition and mess up, then you got them.
The problem is people try to play Freddy like a normal killer when he's not. His power is 100% mind games. If you don't mind game with Freddy, and just try to play him like a normal killer, yes he will suck. When you do stuff like approach a running gen, walk in a circle around it with your power (and loud foot steps) then kick the gen, that's what normal killers do. If you are Freddy just walk up somewhere and stand there, waiting. I guarantee an immersed UE survivor will pop up from somewhere. Got a corn map? Walk through the corn like you walked away then come ALL the way around without disturbing the corn. Survivors will think you are walking away, when you are not, and they will start moving. If you can catch 2 of them on a gen, don't sleep the one that goes to run first, sleep the other one and stand behind them until they get off. Make it look like you will chase, but then follow the other guy. The slept guy will be REALLY confused and waste time trying to mind game you thinking you are trying to get them, but you're not. The awake guy will be really confused why he still hears a lullaby, and may lead you to other survivors. Rinse repeat, once they are all asleep you can watch them, and if they do something you don't want (gen, totem, heal) just pressure them. You do it long enough they get anxious and make a mistake then you can chase for a hook.
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Freddy is one of my favorite killers. When I play him, there's 2 things that I wish were changed about it.
1.) His inability to interact with people at all when they aren't in dream state. As a killer, you're what people run from. It just feels bad when you watch survivors heal or complete gens right in front of you and Freddy can't do anything about it. They have time to finish a gen and run to a pallet all before they get pulled into dream state. Then, they can run off and instantly break out of dream state. This makes Freddy feel so useless.
2.) How easy survivors can break away from dream state. Freddy's greatest strength is also is greatest weakness. I've had survivors run from me, throw a pallet down, run to a gen and instantly get a skill check and remove their dream state. It's just crazy how much of a match you waste trying to keep people asleep as Freddy.
I think if they addressed the above 2 issues somehow, Freddy would be much better without making him overly powerful.
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Also the problems are there aren't enough ways to mind game survivors (too many safe pallets that can be looped) and that killers don't have enough ways to make survivors mess up (which comes down to mind games, but then also more perks like Overcharge and such).
Post edited by thesuicidefox on0 -
@iceman2kx said:
Freddy is one of my favorite killers. When I play him, there's 2 things that I wish were changed about it.1.) His inability to interact with people at all when they aren't in dream state. As a killer, you're what people run from. It just feels bad when you watch survivors heal or complete gens right in front of you and Freddy can't do anything about it. They have time to finish a gen and run to a pallet all before they get pulled into dream state. Then, they can run off and instantly break out of dream state. This makes Freddy feel so useless.
2.) How easy survivors can break away from dream state. Freddy's greatest strength is also is greatest weakness. I've had survivors run from me, throw a pallet down, run to a gen and instantly get a skill check and remove their dream state. It's just crazy how much of a match you waste trying to keep people asleep as Freddy.
I think if they addressed the above 2 issues somehow, Freddy would be much better without making him overly powerful.
I agree. I've made these suggestions before, but I'm going to repeat them here.
For 1, Freddy's power should knock a survivor out of an action (other than vault/pallet drop) for 2 seconds similar to how Doc's shock can stop you for a moment. If he had this, you could force people off gens, heals, and hooks if for a short time such that if they tried to do it again after the 2 seconds then it would mean they have to take a hit to keep doing it. It'd also mean he can immediately stop you on a totem or the door and force a chase.
For 2, I think skill checks in DW should be inverted. Where most of the circle is a fail, with a small good zone and really small great zone, DW should swap the fail and good zones so if you want to wake up you need time the FAILED skill check like a normal one. If you miss the skill check, you actually succeed and get the skill check. It would mess with survivors because it flips skill checks around. Great zone should stay the same, and Overcharge should stay the same, but otherwise that's how they should be. And if you use Unnerving it would just make the fail zone in DW smaller.
Do these 2 things, remove the negatives from his add-ons and buff the white/yellows, remove the -5% speed on Red Paint Brush and instead make it so Freddy flashes in real world randomly once per 30 seconds or something (and make it so Pill Bottle stops that from happening as well as the current effect), and Freddy would be a solid killer. Maybe also make DW immune to fog offerings.
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