Moris, Keys, and the Endgame - A Rework Discussion
Moris and Keys. Good lord are these the most cursed items in the game. Just one of those items alone makes one singular player a huge threat to one's game and throws balance out a tenth-story window. With people going back and forth about the balance of these two items, how about we actually think up something to put this problem to rest and move onto the next chapter of the health of DbD. Then, we'll talk about the endgame. More on that later.
Memento Moris
So, the problem with moris is that they're simply way too strong. Following the release of the game in 2016, mori kills could be triggered without hooking anybody. Soon after (insert date here), all moris were nerfed so that they required the victim to be hooked before the kill could be performed, which brought its own problems.
When up against a mori, you're afflicted with a burden in which your entire team is screwed if any of the four are hooked just once with little chance of survival if they don't recover in time. No flashlights or DS will save you; and if the Killer chooses to tunnel you, kiss your trial goodbye and get ready to wait another ten minutes queued for the next match.
The Solution
Fortunately, unlike Keys, Moris are Offerings, thus don't require much to put them in a more... somewhat balanced state. Keep in mind, the purpose of running a Mori is to give the Killer an advantage, not just for show.
Cypress Memento Moris shall remain unchanged. Their kill conditions are perfectly reasonable. Kill the last Survivor. Over and done with.
Ivory and Ebony Memento Moris will have different requirements. It's simple. After all four Survivors have been hooked at least once, then you can start killing people. Ivory is included, so you wanna work for that one kill and choose wisely so that you don't waste it. And while Ebony Moris are still powerful, there will be some counterplay to it at most.
Keys
If you want a rundown of what good Keys are, let's just say this: hold this item, and you can escape for free (unless it's a Broken Key). And you can have FOUR of these bad boys in one match! AND they can be found randomly in chests!
There are just so many frustrations for Killers up against even one Key. You can have spectacular matches, but if the gen count goes anywhere under three gens, you can be denied kills with just the press of a button. One moment you're setting a bear trap, the next the game's over with only half the credit taken. I could go on and on with examples of how busted those mechanics are, but we've got a solution to make.
The Solution
Keys will play a big role in the endgame idea I will explain after this, so remember that.
Anyway, Keys will work much differently to other items. Like moris, you should have to work for that escape in some way. So here's how it'll work:
All Keys start at 0 Charges (except Skeleton Keys). You generate charges by being altruistic. Completing altruistic actions (healing, unhooking, etc) equals +10 Charges. You lose all of your charges when you are hooked by the Killer. Dull and Skeleton Keys will only open the hatch at full charges. Opening the hatch takes 6 seconds, and the Survivor opening the hatch may be grabbed by the Killer during this action. The Survivor does not jump into the hatch automatically upon successfully opening it. The Key transforms into a depleted Broken Key upon opening the hatch. Killers closing the hatch does not start the Endgame Collapse.
Lastly, you can still use the Mind Channel with keys. Just choose whether you wanna spend your charges on that or the hatch.
Broken Key - 15 Max Charges, Does Not Open Hatch, Increases aura-reading range by 8 meters
Dull Key - 30 Max Charges, Opens Hatch at 30 Charges
Skeleton Key - 30 Max Charges, Opens Hatch at 30 Charges, Starts With 30 Charges
The Endgame
It's surprising that no one talks about the endgame that much, but everyone knows how rushed the Endgame Collapse feels. It's cool, yeah, but gameplay-wise, awkward as heck. This part of the discussion will talk about both when there's one Survivor left and when all the gens are done. We'll quickly go through the latter first.
The Dash for the Gates
I don't know about you, but I feel like Killers are way too weak during the endgame. Yes, the Survivors completed the objective. Yes, there's a timer to force them out. Even with those two, without specific perks, the Killer has almost no tools when any uninjured Survivors dash for the gates. No one is entitled to an escape just because the gens were done, so let's add a bit more twists to spice it up a bit.
- Gate progress passively degrades. No more 99-ing gates. It's a stupid mechanic. So if the switch box has been touched up to 50% and then left, after a few seconds the progress will regress until it's back down to zero again.
- If the Killer enters beyond the gates, the escape is blocked for all players. So you know how the Entity blocks the Killer from leaving the trial? Well, this effect will also keep Survivors from leaving too to force them out of that area and back into the trial. So when the Survivors hear that heartbeat, t-bagging time is over and they get to choose whether to leave or go back in.
Three Dead, One Remains: Hatch and Keys
Before we get into the important stuff, let's talk about how the hatch works. How it spawns is exactly how it was, except instead for one singular hatch, there will three spawned on the map. Here's how it works for reference (from Wiki), only exception is that the hatch does not open automatically at one Survivor:
Now you're probably wondering, "Why on earth will there be three hatches?" Well, only ONE of those THREE hatches will lead to an escape. The other two are trapped. The Entity is waiting on the other side of these trapped hatches. Upon opening a trapped hatch, the Entity will attack the opener as well as other unfortunate Survivors within range, dealing one health state's worth of damage, closing the hatch and reshuffling the correct one, and destroying the Key used.
There's two ways to discern which one is the correct hatch. The first and easiest method is to use the Black Silk Cord add-on or Left Behind, which will not reveal the auras of the trapped hatches. The second method is to stand on top of the hatch and listen very, very closely. If you faintly hear the sound that hatch normally makes, then that's the right one. If you hear an ominous sound on the other side, turn tail and look elsewhere because that one's a trap.
Three Dead, One Remains: The Hatch Game
When the game reaches this point, it's time for a 1v1. There are two phases to this "hatch game."
Phase One: The first phase begins when the third Survivor is sacrificed and the last one remains. During this time, repairing generators is still an option if you're confident enough, but if that's not attractive enough, there's another way. The hatch doesn't open like it usually does, but it will spawn on the map in a group of three like we just talked about, all closed obviously. As the last Survivor, you must open the hatch. To do this, you must go to every unrepaired generator and pull a secret switch to open and reveal the correct hatch. The amount of switches required is equal to the amount of generators that still needs to be completed. After the switches are pulled, the correct hatch opens and you've gotta make a break for it before the Killer finds it. If you find it, you escape. If they close it, the second and last phase begins.
Phase Two: Crack those knuckles and don those running shoes when the hatch closes, because you're gonna need to hone those chasing skills in this phase. As soon as the hatch is closed, the Endgame Collapse timer begins and the auras of both the Survivor and the Killer are revealed to each other intermittently unless they're in a chase. The Exit Gates are not powered. During this time, the formula is super simple: Have one epic chase and last as long as you (the Survivor) can. Once there's only thirty seconds left on the Endgame timer, all three hatches open and can be escaped into (or closed by the Killer). It's all or nothing, so you better have remembered where they were and formulated a safe pathway there. If you don't make it, that's the end for you. Either the Killer gets you or the Entity does.
Conclusion
Well, good job, you made it. Thanks for reading and if you have any questions or found any mistakes or maybe I missed something, feel free to let me know. This is a discussion after all. Let's be as unbiased as possible, okie? ;)
See you in The Fog.
Comments
-
Bump.
0 -
I think a less complicated change for keys would be to simply change the spawn numbers.
Hatch always spawns and opens with 1 survivor left.
Hatch always spawns with all gens done.
Hatch will spawn if there is 2 living survivors and 1 gen left/4 gens repaired.
Add basic aura reading abilities to the keys base kit and change the addons to extend the range of its abilities.
The main thing people don't like about keys is that if the survivor team is remotely competent they're a free escape unless the person with it dies first. This change leaves them powerful but fixes the free escape problem since they're more of an equalizer than an automatic win. If you're beating the killer you won't get use of the key and the killer still has a chance to pull the game back. If the killer is doing really well it can reach a point where you stop working on gens because there's no way you'll get enough done by the time youre the last one left. The key can equalize and give just a little bit of hope that you can get to that 1 gen left point and at least pull the game out in a tie.
0 -
Well yes, but that still doesn’t fix the numerous other problems with Keys. If the game is held at a standstill, then that means you are losing and the Killer is winning. Just because you brought a Key into the match you get to escape regardless of the Killer’s momentum isn’t very fair and is a huge letdown. Yes, Keys should give you an advantage, but you should have to earn it somehow (doing a few generators doesn’t count).
0 -
I think the suggested generator numbers are fair. Its nearly impossible to avoid to 3 people going out hatch at 1 gen left and 2 people going out at 2 gens left, but 1 gen left 2 survivors is avoidable with good gen pressure. Especially since once you get 1 person out of the game, you can often bring gen progress to a halt. Moving the goal post makes it actually achievable for the killer to avoid the survivors hitting that goal. The problem is that right now the goal post is to easy to hit.
0 -
I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say. It looks to me like you’re adding onto what you said earlier, which still doesn’t help the fact that you can jump into the hatch with no downsides whatsoever. What you’re explaining is only one of a million scenarios that a simple fix just can’t mend.
0 -
to get a 4 escape you have to complete all generators, it's an item for solo survivor i don't see the problem 4 gen to escape 3 people 3 gen complete for 2 people. i really don't see all this strong item, a lot of time i find it before the survivor one escape opening the hatch than i close it the other two die.
0 -
You’d be surprised at how easily a single key can completely rob you of a game that seemed to be going super well. Just imagine being on the receiving end of that. And again, there’s no downsides or counterplay to keys other than tunneling the holder, which is completely nuts.
0 -
The cost is getting the gens done. If going out the key with hatch is "free" then so is walking out gates; The more complex a change is the less likely the devs are to implement it. The problem is that the cost is too low. I proposed raising the cost without any complex changes
0 -
You’re missing the point. Using a key to escape is way different from walking through the gates. Escaping via the gates means you’ve completed your objective. Escaping before that point means you’ve failed, but you still won because you got a key from the bloodweb or pulled a miracle from a chest through sheer luck.
And we’re not here to take shortcuts. Complexity makes it unique and more dynamic than just making a simple adjustment that doesn’t even fix the issue everyone’s complaining about. Besides, it makes Keys much more interesting than just an item that opens the hatch and pretty much nothing else since the aura-reading capability is rather lack-luster for an item as special as a Key.
0 -
Entitled killer main, like the end game collpase isn't killer sided. really come on
0 -
Gee, thanks. I’m willing to have a logical discussion about my ideas, but instead you’d rather insult me and dismiss my ideas as biased. If you’re gonna comment on this thing without even reading, what’s even the point of you being here?
0 -
What do you think about turn the "Memento Mori" into just an offering for gain blood points, on the last hook of survivor? The same could be made with the keys, turn them usable only after the 5 gens, when them all completed, and reward the survivors with bp as well.
0 -
I know a streamer who has pretty much the same idea for the End Game Collapse. People who think End Game Collapse is killer sided don't play killer. Survivors get a minimum of 3 chances to escape, and only need to succeed once. Killers have to prevent all of them to win. Either way, it is boring. The change to avoiding the killer and finding a hatch is way more interesting. Otherwise, it is heavily reliant on RNG.
I like your idea for the Moris and Keys. My opinions and feedback on it;
I also think that Cypress Mori's should be removed, and should be a default power in the game. By the time you down the last survivor, if you hook them they are going to insta-die anyway, so the only thing this changes is whether you get DSed or not, and more than half the time, even if they were just unhooked, it means you are both sitting around doing nothing for a minute. Very boring for both involved. Would also lets us see those cool animations more often.
I like the change of Mori's to make it so every survivor has to be hooked. It offers the counter play by making it so that hardcore tunneling doesn't work to just remove people from the game, but still makes it useful to killers. This would reinforce a stealth meta into the game, in case moris show up. Designated Unhookers, Gen Jockies, and Loopers would now need the person who can remain unfound when a Mori pops up.
I like the change to keys because it does force them to earn it. Currently, there is literally no counterplay. Even with a Mori, killers have to get the survivors down first, and have hooked them. A key is the equivalent of every killer having Rancor, possibly against multiple targets if they get it when there are 1 gen left to do and 3 people.
I would also add the change that keys should not be able to be found in game without the perk Plunderer's. It is one thing to bring it into the game at the start, similar to a Mori, but the only killer equivalents are Rancor and Devour Hope, and both of them require perk slots.
My first feedback on it would be changing some add ons to make it so that the minimum charges don't drop. I.E. once you reach 10 charges, it will not drop below 10 if you are hooked.
Second feedback; if you are running into a deadzone and in a SWF group, what stops you from dropping your key right before you go down? Would it retain charges?
0 -
Yeah, but that just makes them really boring. You could just run a Survivor Pudding instead. Besides, it’s a unique part of the game that should receive its fair share of love. Same thing with Keys. Their existence in the game now is more of a proof of concept, now we just need to build off of what we have to make it something special.
0 -
Thanks for the feedback!
For Keys, the method to earning charges is kinda up for debate. I initially thought about making it like Stake Out where you stand in the terror radius to gain charges, but that wouldn’t work. Doing gens also wouldn’t, so altruism was the best thing I could do.
As for losing charges, I was thinking maybe there would be add-ons that reduce how many charges you lose on hook. But then again, these types of Keys are made for long games where you’ll be healing and saving a lot to keep up, or at least that’s the intention.
And that last part, I actually did think of that and... it’s really a debatable topic. Sure, it would be a good strat to stock up or bring a Skeleton Key and hide it for later. On the other hand, we could make it lose about 5 charges if you drop it manually (not from Franklin’s). It really doesn’t make much of a difference.
0 -
I do like the suggestion you put for moris. With that Moris will no longer reward people for taking people out of the game instantly. Cause honestly, it sucks to be the survivor that gets tunneled to get moried.
As for the keys, I do like how you're trying to get better use out of the key add-ons and add a whole new element with keys and hatch. But I also feel like that would be very complicated to work into the game.
I think a simpler solution for keys would be, make the key an item that you can only find in a chest. No longer can you bring keys into a match. If a survivor wants to use plunder to raise their chances of getting a key that fine; they have to use a perk to do so. If you leave with a key you get extra bloodpoints instead of keeping the items.
0 -
‘ppreciate the feedback. But this is an outdated post. The Mori idea I still stand by, but for keys I have a different, simpler idea. The key still has to go through a hatch unlocking animation which takes a few seconds, but you can only actually use the key when your teammates are standing next to you. This way, you can’t be selfish with the key anymore, nor can you jump into the hatch in front of the Killer’s face.
I also have a different, more modern endgame concept to replace the current 1v1 situation if you’d like to read it.
0
