No One Escapes Death Rework Proposal
Hey guys,
Everyone is aware of how NoeD works and everyone knows that it can activate even though a killer played extremely poorly and swing games. Now before people start screaming bloody murder, I am a killer main and nearly always tell people on the forums to "Do the Totems" in response to complaints about NoeD. However, its pretty obvious that the perk itself needs to be changed in some way or fashion to make it more fun to use and fun to play against.
Here is my proposal.
No One Escapes Death:
"And the beast became faster and more powerful as if The Entity's shadowy whips were lashing at its back."
You are animated by the power of the Entity when Survivors are placed on a hook or on the verge of escaping. When you hook a survivor, your movement speed is increased by 0.5/0.75% for every Dull Totem/Hex Totem that still stands until the end of the trial. If you have hooked all 4 survivors at least once during the trial and the final generator is completed, then for every totem remaining in the trial survivors are afflicted with the Exposure status effect for 10 seconds.
As you can see the perk is no longer a hex, I never felt that NoeD should be linked to a Hex Totem, but I do like the idea of the totems still effecting the perk. Overall the power of the perk is shifted more towards the movement speed bonus vs the exposure, and it keeps the same weakness of cleansing all of the totems. The main change here is that during the endgame you only receive the exposed status effect for a temporary amount of time if you have hooked all 4 survivors at least once during the trial. This allows the perk to only function as an endgame perk if the killer is actually hooking survivors actively during the match.
How do others feel about this. Ignoring the numbers I threw up there (which could be tweaked) does anyone think this would make for a interesting rework. If not what sort of ideas do you have?
Comments
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eagerly awaiting the people who dont know how a discussion works and instandly bring up "WELL THEN X HAS TO HAPPEN TO DS" or whatever.
On the actual idea: it needs tweaking, 10 seconds for every totem remaining, so at max 50 seconds if not a single totem was destroyed, (which if there was any hex totem, it most def will be) that really is not enough time
EDIT: one of the big powers of NoeD is the all or nothing type of principle, if you do 4 totems but cant find the last 1, you have a problem because that 1 totem will be NoeD, with this change and the 10 second timer...who cares about that last totem? 10 seconds of avoiding a killer is not a problem apart from a rare case of the killer being right up your behind at the moment of the final gen
And can survivors do something then to reduce the timer? every totem destroyed after the final gen will remove 10 seconds? or is the idea that they should cleance all totems preferably before the final gen (as kinda is for NoeD now)?
Also I Think we have to be careful for speed increases, again this can be tweaked sure but you hook a survivor at the start, that gives you then 0.75% x 5 = 4.5% extra movement speed, you hook another and that can be another 4.5%, combine that with Play With Your Food and you will be a speed demon very soon I would think.
Overall it seems like it would be a fun idea but you have to be careful with increasing speed for killers
Post edited by ZoneDymo on3 -
I feel like the perk shouldn’t still interact with totems if it isn’t a hex totem itself since only some hex totems get bonuses based off other totems. It would also mean that it would be a bad choice to run it with other hex perks since the survivors cleansing the totem would make NOED weaker. Also the strength of the perk can’t really be shifted towards movement speed if the numbers you provided are lower than the speed that current NOED gives you.
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Here is my proposal: do the bones to prevent this from happening. Only time i find this perk pointless is when it run on a 1 hit down killer like the hillbilly.
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The fact people are butthurt about noed being a problem when all you have to do is cleanse totems,but hey lets not talk about perks that actually need a nerf like ds,who have no real counter unlike hexes that even have perks againts them because its toxic.Lets just rework and make a balanced perk useless because i'm a butthurt entitled survivor who is too busy genrushing instead of cleansing a totem.Noed and hexes in general dont stand a chance againts good remotely decent survivors.Slugging,tunneling,camping is toxic but hey lets not blame perks like ds and borrowed time because of that right.Totems are more worthless than you think,the only people complainig about them is the ones that definetly dont know how to deal with them.You can get 1 hex and have it cleansed first second in a match,this is how weak they can be.I will never take survivors that complain about totems seriously and probably devs wont either.
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regardless of everything said here, I just would like to mention that that could just be the mindgame, lets say the ramp up of speed is more subtle and would not immediatly give it away (also come to think of it, this suggested NoeD idea would partly remove its endgame perk status) then having a Hex Totem next to it might be one of those things that throw survivors off from assuming you have it, which then might work to your advantage.
Same as what I just typed, I agree but at the same time the fact that certain killer have build in 1 shot abilities making NoeD seem silly might just be the thing that makes people assume you dont have it, which then gives you immense power in the endgame.
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I think noed is fine and doesnt need to be reworked. Survivor main, mostly solo, but can count to 5 while doing totems.
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you arent serious i hope. ds got nerfed into the ground 600 feet under. SMH
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The perk literally has no counter if you go in a locker. How is that even near nerfed into the ground?
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compared to how it used to be its terrible
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Free 60 seconds on a gen? If anything its better. You used to be able to juggle old dc as killer
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If NOED were to be reworked, and disregarding the numbers since you said they were changeable, I wouldn't mind if this were how they did it. I'm just not convinced that it needs a rework to begin with.
In other words, I'm fine with this as a hypothetical change, but also "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
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maybe but you claimed it was nerfed "into the ground", that is not a statement that is comparing anything, "into the ground" means that its just useless which it REALLY isnt.
Nerfed yes, but still a boringly overpowered perk.
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eagerly awaiting the people
@ZoneDymo do you want that to happen or why do you bring that up as first reaction to the post?
Same as what I just typed, I agree but at the same time the fact that certain killer have build in 1 shot abilities making NoeD seem silly might just be the thing that makes people assume you dont have it, which then gives you immense power in the endgame.
and I think running three perks until then, getting rewarded by survivors that assumed right this, would be a won mindgame, or not?
The idea might work, but as said, I think the speed bonus is weaker than the current perk. If you want it to be rewarding for killer play, don't make it depending on totems, because this is then punishing the killer for survivor gameplay. I would make it like 1% per hook. For the exposed thing, I think it should be more like an offset +x per totem up. Like 30 seconds +5 per totem. And before you yell: Think about what 15 seconds means to Iron Maiden (like nothing) and that it is also possible to be stalked by GF and loop him for the entire time.
I think Zone's first comment might have triggered that
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The perk doesn't really need to be changed... and this sounds like you just want a nerf.
If you wanted a real discussion you would have added more powers then drawbacks.
You... nerfed the power and added additional conditions for activation on additional conditions but still didn't add any reason for the killer to use it.
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For each remaining totem increase the power( this punishes survivors lazy) i get it but the speed boost is so minimal you have to remember that killers run at 4.6m so a 1% boost or a 5% we really aren't even talking about much... its worse then bloodlust.
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Requires all 4 survivors to be hooked (with DC and all the other ways this takes time to set up the payoff added would need to be HUGE. Like a insta mori. Or exposure starting at the 4th hook. )
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Its still related to hex so its incredibly unreliable and easily removed so you'd have to add another great payoff in exchange for that grand downside
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Only works in endgame... so with 20 seconds to open the gate this power barely activated and wasted a slot the whole match
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After 20 seconds after all the setup and unreliable nature it turns itself off so it wouldn't even work for a full chase
Next time you wanna remove a perk from the game because you died to it at least be honest about it.
Edit: and the generator is completed... lol so it doesn't even work on the hatch close your kidding meee.
I can't believe I responded honestly to your joke bait... got me for sure
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It was meant as one of thos "inb4" things, hopefully making people feel silly for doing so before going for it, it did not help, people are just not self aware enough it seems.
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Or they just have fun trolling you
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Just do bones....
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yeah man,that's why its the most used perk,because it got nerfed to the ground,makes sense,this just goes to show how stupidly broken it was and still it,if anything the change they did it to it,was a change,not a nerf
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Hell, Inner Strength feels like the devs put it in here as a subtle was of saying "Cleanse the damn totems!"
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I average 2-4 totems a game. No Small Game or Inner Strength to make me do them.
I'm the one to get hit NoED 99% of the time.
Stop using the "Do Bones" excuse to cover up the garbage design of the perk BECAUSE I DID THE EFFING BONES.
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Then yell at your fellow survivors for doing none. All have to be cleansed, thats as it is. Do the bones.
(but to be fair, i do bones every game, but if i dont do all and noed is there i am the one that gets it, too...)
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Well that sounds like that's there probably not the killers. They shouldn't have assumed
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Noed is fine as it is.You are always risking to waste that 4th perks slot when using Noed as killer because the survivor found all the totems,you finished the game before the last gen was repaired or you were chasing an injured survivor when the last gen got repaired.
Just add a sound effect when dull totems get broken for both sides and that's it.
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And here's mine: How about you give actual feedback instead of just a simple "screw you" to someone who obviously spent at least some time on this?
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This looks great, I love how it punishes survivors who ignore dulls even more than before. Great design, man! Personally I would increase the exposure to 30 per so you can actually use it a little.
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It seems more like an acknowledgement of how justified survivors were in ignoring bones because they have no use besides bp and now Inner Strength :P
Am I wrong?
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the perk is 100% fine in its current form. no rework is needed or necessary
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I'm of the opinion the devs will eventually get around to tweaking all the more controversial perks. Maybe I just have too much faith lol
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The devs have stated they are fine with the current state of noed.
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Speed build Wraith with full NOED movement stacks!
I just want to see this be a thing so I can make race-car noises again.
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No, stop blaming killers because the rest of your team sucks. We shouldnt have to keep getting nerfed into the ground because too many victims are boosted. Make it so actually good survivors get to the ranks so they cleanse bones conserve resources and simply play well.
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Oh I hate it when someone just goes "no I hate the idea NEXT" and doesn't even offer a suggestion to make the idea better. Your idea has to be perfect to these people or it's not even worth a conversation. It really makes me wonder how these people communicate with others in real life.
"That'll be $5.35 please."
"TOO EXPENSIVE, NO."
"Okay what price is fair to you then?"
"I DON'T KNOW THAT'S YOUR JOB FIGURE IT OUT."
Now, going back to the topic lol, I kinda like the idea but I feel a limit on speed per totem is a little much. The perk is basically a waste of a slot if survivors take out all the totems, which they all definitely would if this version NOED was in the game.
I think it should give bonus movement speed per totem, but already has a 1.5% bonus speed as a base buff. Then it's like a killer Hope.
I think the amount of totems left on the map should equal the amount of players that can be insta-downed. If there are four, all four can be insta-downed. If there is just one, just one player.
But also, everyone messing around the exit gates, inside and within 15M of the gate, should be "secretly" afflicted with the exposed status.
Or maybe if anyone is running in the exit gate zone, instead of getting hit, if the hit lands, they're automatically grabbed. No One Escapes Death, after all. That'll start telling players not to take hit escapes.
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Tying a non-hex perk to totems is probably a weak choice if you're also adding prerequisites to activate the perk.
The movement buff is interesting even without the 2nd effect but would probably be too powerful when combined with other effects. Especially if you consider the map changes and the cries for bloodlust changes.
The second iteration of NoED had a timer as well which was later turned into a Hex totem. You'd essentially be changing it back but adding an additional effect to it along with conditional effects effectively neutering the perk without simply solving the one problem you have with the perk.
Your first sentence belies your bias.
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Make noed base for all killers, that way it frees up a perk slot. Give survivors a totem counter.
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The numbers are temporary, they just want NOED to be more fun, variable, and interactive to use and play against. If you have something against that, for what reason other than bias?
Also, how can you call a perk that buffs your MS a weak choice?
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We could just change it back to how it was after it's first nerf. Survivors thought it was unfair on a 2 minute timer, so it got turned into a hex that can have a timer of "never existed", but that takes too much effort, apparently. So why not just ditch the hex part and stick it on a 2 minute timer again?
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Its not the games design, its your team. You did more than was needed for 1 survivor. If you did 3-4 bones then your team didnt even bother to do one. Dont blame the perk, blame your team mates.
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Actually you are. If you refuse to do bones and you get hit by noed thats your own damn fault. If you get nailed by DH that too is your own fault. Its not the killers fault you ignored something and it came back to bite you in the ass.
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I'm wrong that bones were useless? I guess you could say that if you dislike NOED you could cleanse dulls but overall the perk wasn't on the radar back then. If you don't care about NOED you don't care about bones to put it simply.
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Adding prerequisites to perks weakens them regardless of the reward.
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Correct. Your statement was justified, although not as clear as possible. My apologies.
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First off, thank you for a thought out idea.
Personally I like NoED where it is right now. People constantly complain it's OP and unfair, but it's a punishment for gen rushing and doing no other objectives. Totems are part of our survivor objectives, and if we don't cleanse them that's on us. It takes significantly less time to cleanse a totem than repair a gen.
NoED means you have to play with 3 perks for the whole game and if you have any other Hex perk, that number can be reduced to two VERY easily. It is a High Risk - High Reward perk, because if survivors like myself do our objectives (and I mean all of them) then it'll never trigger.
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Ok if you like punishing survivors more then you would like OP's idea better...there is no totem to cleanse at end game to remove all of their mistakes magically.
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Are you trying to say it's okay to punish the killer for their mistakes but not okay to punish survivors for ours? I don't understand what you mean by "no totem to cleanse at end game to remove all of their mistakes magically." Do you mean Killer mistakes or Survivor?
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An alternative idea that could cut down on frustration:
Have the speed boost kick in at generators' completion, but have the exposed status kick in upon Endgame Collapse.
Increases threat at endgame, and there killer even has the option to start the one shotting effect themselves if they want more than the speed boost, but at the cost of potentially making escape easier.
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You punish survivors by not allowing them to remove their mistakes. Lots of logic there, I understand how you got it a little mixed up 😁
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Here's what happened my last game as killer (two weeks ago now?).
Wraith - NoED, Devour Hope, BBQ, Unrelenting.
Devour hope was gone in the first 30 seconds, so I'm left with 2 perks for the game. No big deal since BBQ can be used alone and it's great. Now, 5 gens are done and 2 or 3 survivors are left. I'm patrolling gates since they're relatively close together, but no one is there or they're hiding. But what happens? My NoED goes down, so I find the person who broke it since I was close. By this point the other survivors have the gates 99'd and everyone escapes.
Did I make mistakes? Hell yeah. Did survivors make mistakes? Hell yeah. Did survivors play smart when they saw NoED go up? Hell yeah.
Point is, NoED isn't godlike. It can be countered effectively. I've noticed people just don't want to expend the extra effort to do so. And so they call it unfair. Now if there was absolutely no way to counter it, I'd have a problem with it for sure.
What do you think?
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Hmm? Sure NOED can be countered but I think it would be healthier if it had less counters.
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For everyone who actually provided quality feedback on the idea. Thank you all and much appreciated.
For those who just called me "Survivor Main" or ect.. Here are my stats. I assure you I barely ever play survivor.
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You've never inherited an item :O
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