Why are the devs so oblivious to the fact that
They’ll never be able to buff solo to swf if they don’t add voice chat. Even then if they don’t, many suggestions have been made to improve solo , but the devs don’t implement it because it would be too much information. Literally what do they think swf is?? Just because some don’t use comms they’re gonna dismiss solos even though a majority of swf use comms. When they dismiss solos because of their own interpretation of things they’re also dismissing killers because you can’t buff killers with it not affecting solos. Like what’s so hard to understand about this. Why are you guys too scared to move forward with some changes that’ll help the game health overall?
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I think only adding the icons that I suggested a while ago will help the solo players a lot. I don't think we need a voice chat in-game.
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Even that would help tremendously and I’m not saying I want voice chat I’m just saying that’s the only way for swf and solos to be exactly equal to eachother
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nah they can be exactly equal with a ping system and chat wheel too. Devs won't add those either.
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That would also work, but you’re right they won’t add them, but I wanna know why. How is it too much information, when there’s people with comms run around.
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Devs refuse to buff solos and killers, but they also refuse to nerf swf. Why they won't buff solos and killers is beyond my understanding tbh.
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Just understand that all this balance discussion is meaningless as making adjustments to it does not generate any revenue.
So as long as people do waste money either on auric cells or dlcs, no adjustments are really needed.
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So you’re saying it’s pointless for the devs to make changes unless it brings them money?
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Well not pointless but it is not something they need to do because the playerbase still buys the content they send out, in a frequency of 3 months and ofc the cosmetics. So as long as people just buy everything, why change anything? Why would you suddenly say, hey guys lets adjust solo and swf? See there is nothing to be gained from that.
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well because more people would be encouraged to play and when people cement themselves in the game they’re gonna buy stuff for it. Why would someone buy something from a game they only enjoy for a little and then leave. While I understand a company needs to make money, if you’re consumers aren’t happy that’s bad for business.
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I made a feedback post yesterday. Stating that if you make the survivors have to individually do something for themselves in order to leave, you can then buff solo a lot. Because it becomes one vs one. Every man for himself. But nobody commented on that lol
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Adding something to help discern SWF or help solo would help. But voice chat might not be that thing. You have to think how would that affect the systems. PC is already very easy. They have Discord and other VC things. What about Playstation and XBox. I'm pretty sure they are capable of performing VC (I think. I never play PS or Xbox online) The biggest suffrage would be the Switch. It has no com capabilities. It would help everyone else but these players. Their games would be the same.
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The problem is you have more than just solo and swf.
You have solo, 2 man swf, 3 man swf, 4 man swf, coordinated see with bad players and coordinated see with good players.
Being in an swf doesnt mean an automatic win by itself. A 3 man swf who are highly coordinated and good players can do far better than a 4 man of mediocre players. SWF also pick who they play with so limit the potential of being matched with less skilled players.
While voice chat alone gives a lot of information, information is only good if you know what to do with it and use it to its full potential.
This is why it's so hard to balance as technically the only true issue comes with those who use the info well and are in a 3 or 4 man swf with good players.
So would voice chat in solo solve the actual problem? They are not a team afterall but 4 solo players each out for points which in turn makes players less likely to cooperate as what someone else does doesn't gain you anything part from the potential of 5k escape points.
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BS. You balance for the top, and it's balanced for everyone. That's how competitive games work.
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Let me assume youre from USA? Cause otherwise it would be questionable to ask for an ingame voicechat.
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I agree. Friday the 13th has a voice chat feature where you can only speak to each other if you're within a certain distance. I don't see why that can't be the case for dbd. Maybe it's too complicated to program given that they allow party chat anyway. There might be some sort of conflicting code or something between the game's chat feature and the party chat that needs to be cleverly coded?
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Even in the US region, the devs have stated that could be problematic. You could be paired with a Spanish or French speaker, because our neighbors speak both.
I'm not interested in chatting with people I don't know, for a couple of personal reasons. Plus this game already has a pretty large problem with bad manners and toxic players. Voice chat is notoriously hard to monitor for most if not all companies. And then, a lot of the game is based on listening for sound cues. I'm just imagining some arse pulling a Patrick Swayze from "Ghost."
I agree there is a balance issue between the two, but there's a lot of people looking for SWF on Discord, or you can find people from previous matches you liked playing with, or friends who own the game. I'd rather not be forced into it. Before someone says "Well, you could mute", then I'm handicapping my team, since VC would then be an expected feature, and all future balancing would be based on that.
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That's a terrible mindset when the game itself can never match the top 5% let alone has a measure where skill can be represented while throwing rng into mix in terms of maps, items, add-ons etc etc.
The game has so many determining factors where someone in the top 5% of survivors could easily be killed by someone in the bottom 30% simply by having bad rng on tiles spawns and then being camped on first hook.
What shows any measure of skill in that scenario when it was based more on luck?
TF is also a terrible example as its two sets of equal amounts of players and done on the individual skill of the player with aiming, power use and knowledge of the static maps along with each side having the same tools to use.
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Even if the devs or the player base didn’t want voice chat they could add other things that still give information, but they seem hesitant on going forward with anything. Of course I see why but that’s what a ptb is for, it at least wouldn’t hurt to try.
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How would that information change a players mindset from wanting to earn more points for say a save to instead letting another do it instead? This is a game purely about the grind after all.
Information is always good but the real strength with any information is what you do with it.
DBD is not a team game when solo like other games are. Each survivor is in essense fighting against all the others for the points gainable within the match. You really don't gain anything from the others saving or escaping apart from a higher chance to escape which nets you 5k.
With it being a grind game this can and does make players act quite selfish as you can earn much more doing as many actions within the match yourself and dying.
So the only way then to make the information viable like in an swf is to make it so what the others do also benefits you more in terms of the grind.
It's not a simple fix by any means as lots of things would need to be considered other than simply letting others know someone is in a chase as an example.
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If you're getting stomped by a grey rank player as a red rank, you probably don't belong in red ranks, just saying. The issue you're describing is caused by DbD's #########-tier ranking system
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It wasn't about being stomped but the luck of where you are found with nothing around to work with. Even the best players will go down as all that is left is a 360 which rarely works.
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Yes but reality is that https://steamcharts.com/app/381210#3m more people do play the way it is right now so there is no incentive to change the way things are run. Simply accept that they are not going to change the way they handle things.
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Another passive aggressive thread title...
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If you buff solo you buff swf at the sametime
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The problem is less solo vs SWF and more matchmaking. It is way too easy for potatoes to get to high ranks and be matched with players that actually know what they are doing. If you get one of these players it seriously hurts all the other survivors. This can be true in SWF as well, I've won games against 3/4 stacks purely because I found and exploited the weakest link and they fell like a house of cards. And to further contrast, I've been in games with 4 solos where we are all TRUE rank 1's and completely decimated the killer without any communication because we all knew what to do and when to do it.
There is also the issue of boosted killers getting matched against opponents WAY beyond their skill despite their ranks being close. I've ended games and looked at the scoreboard only to say to myself "how are you a rank 2 killer?!?". Lot's of killers have inflated egos because they face potato survivors regularly and can't recognize when they are actually outmatched, then get even more frustrated if they are indeed close in ranks. And yes there are boosted survivors with ego's too, but in my experience it's a lot more common to see a boosted potato survivor at red ranks than a boosted potato killer. MOST red rank killers actually deserve to be there, and even the boosted ones aren't far from the mark (maybe they should be purple ranks instead). At least 1 in 5 survivors at red ranks should be at green ranks at best.
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How about a walkie talkie.... give the players the choice of comms
I know the grind is hard... so why not add a sell option, to ease the grind
I would say to have a market, maybe if the mobile version has anything to do with it
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Agreed. I think they just need to fully balance Killers with SWF groups and bridge the gap between solos and SWF by providing the one thing that causes the greatest disparity - communication.
There are creative and less powerful ways this could be implemented than straight in-game chat. It could be implemented in-game as an objective or an item you bring, like having to find walk-talkies on the map or bringing a cellphone item...maybe it even has a limit to the battery life so use has to be selective. IMO, this is one of the most straight forward ways to level the playing field of solos and SWF so that as the game continues to balance Killers to be competitive with SWF, random teams don't get totally ######### in the end.
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People seem to forget that a voice chat system wouldn't mean you're required to participate in it. Like Overwatch, or almost any other pvp game with a team chat, you can choose to join or leave said chat. And yes, it would be helpful long term. Yes, the 5% of games that have 4-man SWF's are cancer for one side, but solo queue is practically unplayable for the other side sometimes. Anything to close that gap is a good thing.
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It really does feel like it's a case of "all or nothing" with regards to survivors.
As a killer, I either get a 4-man SWF of red rank people who I can't touch, or I get a group of 4 randoms who basically take turns walking into my weapon.
If it were somehow possible to smooth it out a little, that'd be nice. Maybe enable in-game communication, but put a limit on how many people you can queue with. (Two out of four, for example)
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A queue limit is a bad idea. I have three friends who I enjoy playing with, on the rare occasion we're actually all online at the same time. Not to sweat it out, but because we just enjoy each other's company. If I couldn't play with them anymore, I'd objectively play less DBD, and so would many others. It is supposed to be a casual party game, after all.
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"Ok, but that advantage is fun and I don't actually abuse it, honest! So don't touch it."
I guess. Some restrictions on lobbies are fairly common in other games, DbD might be the only game I've seen where it can be so thoroughly abused to screw with your opponent.
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C mon, do you think that the devs will ever touch swf? This is the core of this game pretty much. By sabotage them, they will sabotage their own game. I don't mind swf's, trying to stop or punish them from playing together a game. From you who want swf's out, remember this is JUST A GAME, you're not real killer. Chill out.
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so, since its just a game it doesnt have to be fair or balanced? Or what do you want to say by that?
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"It's no big deal, it's just a game! Unless you're talking about messing with the things I like, then it's a huge deal and you need to chill out!"
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That's the heart of a lot of dbd issues, including the surv vs killer mindset. Most survivor heavy players look at it as a party game, most killers see it as a pvp game. When one side plays a game as a fun distraction (often with friends) and the other side treats it as a competitive game all alone, you get a lot of discordance.
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Be a good killer against good survivors. I have seen many of them destroying good swf teams. And yes, trying to stop friends to play together a game it's just stupid and egoistic. There's not only good swf teams. Plenty of teams are awful and they want to have just fun.
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Even if they dont want to give us voice chat I've been saying for a long time they should add kindred as baseline. The biggest issue with solo's is your efficiency is terrible. 3 solos could all be running for the save because they have no idea what the other two are even doing or all 3 don't go for a save cause they assume the others will get it.
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I think the game is funnier when you play without comms.
A lot of perks work as communication.
[1] and [2] keys are designed as communication.
The game base a lot of the "horror" in being in a trial with people you don't know. You don't even have to know each other language and obviously part of the player base don't speak english.
SWF is an extra to avoid friends saturating qeues until they are paired together.
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Where did you get, "egoistic" out of this topic?
Fact is, most team online games have some form of preventing abuse with lobbies. Either limiting how many you can bring, or ensuring that you can't abuse a disparity in ranks, or something similar.
DbD might be the only game I've ever seen where you can stack a full lobby of high ranked people and get matched with a newbie. It's weird.
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They say "Just a fun part game, brah!" but at the same time they're playing just as seriously as anyone else.
"Party game, brah!" is just a handwave. It's no different than saying, "Don't change infinite loops, it's just a game, no big deal!"
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That's partly true, it does get used as a handwave by some Survivors who play hard as hell... but there is a large portion of the survivor base who are lifetime potatoes, who don't actually care about being better, who just look at the game that way. They'd be just as happy if all perks were unlocked from moment 1, and if killers were just a halfway good AI. Sorry, not saying they literally WANT that, but that they'd play and treat the game the same way, because to them, the killer isn't someONE to be beaten, it's just an obstacle (a someTHING ) to dodge on the way to escape with friends, like the xeno in alien isolation.
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Well, my dear killer main apparently you get destroyed by swf's. That's why crying and whining. I have two magic words for you.
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Yeah, it wouldn't be as big an issue if the matchmaking handled it.
CS:GO for example, you can't queue with a large disparity in ranks unless you have a full lobby, and then it matches you as if you were all the rank of the highest person in your lobby. So sure, you can do whatever you want, but you can't abuse your opponents with it. You can only take on the consequences yourself.
My second day playing DbD I was getting full lobbies of rank 3 people who rushed gens like mad and then just trolled and acted like clowns once they realized. But question why it works that way and the reply is, "Just a party game!"
Oddly enough, it stops being "Just a party game" as soon as I get any kind of upper hand. Then it's, "FU nub killer so lucky U lagswitcher #########!11!!" (Yes, I actually got accused of lagswitching when I dared to get a kill on one of these groups. Ok, I guess.)
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Survivor aura reading whilst someone is on the hook.
A chase indicator (basically the obsession icon, and the real obsession will have red entity claws instead or something)
Totem counter
BT indicator in-game (maybe show the survivor holding a stopwatch, or have an icon next to their name in the corner)
And then we change a few killers around, buff a bunch of stuff on their end and we're done.
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What are you talking about? I've played plenty of actual team pvp games (Overwatch and R6, for example) and plenty more PvE games that happen to have a pvp mode (Destiny 2, Last of Us), and I've rarely seen lobby restrictions of any kind, especially not limiting how many people you can play with. The only kind I ever see is a limit on how much of a rank difference people can have, and even then, that's only in the Comp playlists. The majority of games I play are solo-queue anyways, which is how I know it's such a shitshow sometimes. More importantly, don't equate me actually enjoying a game with friends once in a while to "abusing" the game. My God man, check your entitlement before you try and argue game balance. This was designed to be a chill, casual party game, and it barely manages to be competent at that, and some of you want to treat it like a hardcore competitive game? It shouldn't even be anyone's main game, let alone something anyone takes that seriously, on either side. If you choose to spend all of your playtime in such a flawed game, instead of one of the many actually good, proper competitive games, that's on you, but get off your soapbox and stop telling people they're wrong for playing with their friends.
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I never said you were "wrong", and I still don't know where people are getting ideas like "entitlement" and "egoistic" out of me simply wondering why the game behaves this way - especially with regards to new players.
It's telling how strongly some of you have reacted to mere discussion of this topic, even as you declare how unimportant the game is and how chill and casual it all should be.
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It's always been weird that dbd works differently. Pretty much every mmog, even mmos handle groups by either making it so the difficulty is set to the highest level, or by removing rewards altogether if theres a high level helping a low level with content.
If a true r20 has queued up with r1 friends, they KNOW they are playing in the big leagues and are out of their depth. The killer on the other end who is a rank 14 or whatever has no idea that they're about to land into a game where only half (or less) of the opponents are in their skill level. Makes no sense at all.
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This kind of commentary is where we get the idea from. You literally equated me playing a casual party game with my friends, the 10% of the time I do, with "abusing an advantage." That's what I reacted strongly to. And you're far from the first. If you, or anyone else, wants to debate game balance in a calm, rational way, then great. I'm always down for a good debate. But half the time I check, this forum genuinely seems to be nothing but toxic killer mains blatantly attacking me for having a different opinion than them, or for daring to play with my friends on occasion, and I'm sick of it. I've genuinely never seen the level of toxicity and entitlement that I've witnessed in this community (on both sides), and that's saying something.
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I mean, you're still telling me how unimportant it all is. How everything should be chill. How you'd love a good debate.
All I'm doing over here is asking why the newbie experience consists mostly of being stomped by full lobbies of high rank people. Thinking of some way to mitigate it. Then you write a paragraph calling names, saying it's toxic, entitled, and so on.
I'm sorry if this doesn't really lend much credence to the whole, "Just a chill party game, relax!" narrative. I'd just prefer matchmaking to make more sense, like it does in most other games.
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Are you familiar with the game Hearthstone ? It's a card game with tons upon tons of RNG involved in so many levels, yet it is balanced enough for a competitive environment and it has a way better ranking system with bronze to Legend tiers and I can assure you even a super lucky bronze player can't win against an unlucky diamond player. If a game where something can say "do 30 random things (amongst 300+ options) with random targets" and still be balanced enough for the better player win, I'm almost sure that with enough balance tweaks a game where the only RNG is on map generation (with so many limitations these days) can be balanced towards competitive or casual gameplay (whatever way the Devs intend to go).
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