Keys and Moris are not comparable.
I often see Killer Mains make the argument of, “if survivors can have keys! Then killers can have Moris!”
but those two aren’t comparable like at all. Killing survivors is the killers objective - that is a fact, as killer, you’re hoping to kill all the survivors in the game. As survivor, your objective is to do gens.
Keys are highly situational to begin with - you’re not even guaranteed to get to a stage where hatch spawns for the player to use the key. A mori - whilst admittedly needing to be “unlocked”, is far quicker to use within a match than a hatch is. You can get a mori kill before 2 gens are done.
Keys aren’t even commonly ran by survivors - in my hundred of games as survivor, I’ve only escaped using a key probably 5 or so times. As a killer - in my hundreds of games, I’ve only ran into two games where a key was actually used in game.
Moris can be achieved in-game quicker and end the game quicker - they don’t take up a necessary spot in the kit as they come as an offering. With a key, you have to wait till end-game essentially to use the item, which is a part of the game that you’re not even guaranteed to reach - on top of the fact that it takes up an item slot.
these are not comparable at all. I hate seeing the argument that they are when they’re blatantly not
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You can say that all you want but if I see a key I'm still going to mori your ass. You get free escapes I'll take my free kills on you. It's only fair.
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Keys would be fine if they were limited to the bloodweb. That way if a Survivor uses one, the Killer can run Franklins or something to counter it. Meanwhile, if a Survivor find a key during the trial, the Killer likely won't realize until they've already gone through the hatch
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CTRL+ALT+DELETE.
wHy aRe suRviVorS quItTinG gAmE whEn tHe kiLLeR brInGs a sEcrEt ofFerIng?
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It’s not free escape because the option to use hatch is an end-game feature.
Moris become usable in the match much earlier than keys and the comparison between the two is very dumb.
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you know what way you can counter keys before the hatch even spawns? Doing your objective and killing the survivors, amazing, isn’t it?
Keys are literally rarely used and this is speaking from experience on both sides. The reason for it is because Keys take up an item slot for an end-game feature whereas most of the game isn’t spent in the end-game. It disadvantages the survivor hugely because they could bring items which help them throughout the match than hoping to reach the end of the match.
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I'd say both are broken and deserve nerfs, keys should be nerfed so only the person that has a key can escape through the hatch (Hatch closes after you use the key) and Moris should work after 2 hooks instead of 1.
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they are both crap to shortcut the game, I never bring a key and I never use a mori unless an ivory for the rare mori daily ritual.
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To be honest when I played killer, I'd use Mori's just to get rid of them. It's difficult to get many points using them.
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You failed to do the gens. YOU FAILED YOUR OBJECTIVE.
Why the hell do you think you deserve a free escape?
If you last one alive you can simply bypass the whole end game by an item. At that point, you failed to do 5 gens, 3 person died, the killer closed the hatch, and you still can win via an item that bypass everything the killer done.
It punishes the killer for doing good in a match.
So yeah mori and key are the same powerlevel. Both lets you skip the main objective of the game. Sure mori are faster to use but remember each death brings the hatch closer as well. So Mori works on keys being usefull much faster.
But now that i think about it keys are like NOED. Where the survivour hinders themself with a useless item/perk so they can have an advantage in the late game. But oo wait every survivour cries about noed being a no skill/no brain perk for being a LATE GAME perk that gives advantage when the game reaches end game. So why does key not counted as a no brain no skill item that offers no counterplay what so ever?
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You don’t win, if nothing was done, the only winner is the killer as they will be rewarded for their effort.
escaping doesn’t = winning lol
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'Keys aren’t even commonly ran by survivors.' Neither are mori's, unless you're in the low ranks, because they're cool. When in high ranks, they destroy your score, so they aren't a common sight.
They are comparable, because they both end the game quicker than it would have. It doesn't matter how it's accomplished, both are meant for easier wins on both sides.
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They both bassicly do the same thing
Shortcut the game length
When 3 generators are done 2 survivors can suddenly escape, that's not really end game now is it
Imo both should only work in the end game crisis and give them bonus bloodpoints on top of the max of 32000
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Killers objective is to sacrifice survivors, not kill them. The game punishes you if you mori survivors compared to hooking them. An easy way for you to understand it would be like me saying "The objective of survivors is to escape not do gens."
Also personal experience while interesting is not a good argument I had 2 matches today where people escaped via hatch mid game.
Both keys and mori can help end the game quickly, both can be used mid game and both need some effort put in to work and when you look at overall matches both are used fairly infrequently.
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I disagree with this. Keys still require survivors to do all the gens unless half the team is dead that’s when it’s even remotely effective. There are plenty of games I’ve played where keys just don’t get used especially playing solo. Killers with plenty of practice especially high mobility who can cross these small-medium size maps fast (which they’re making smaller) is already not fun. Think about how easy it is for a killer to find someone and down them. So that’s it? That’s all the survivor gets is that one interaction with the killer and that’s supposed to be fun for him? No. Because you can bet on everything as soon as you get off the hook that killer is coming back as soon as you get off so fast whether he or she was hiding in a bush undetectable or just super high mobility and just down you and Mori you. I think keys are a vital part of the game not Mori’s. My feelings towards the two are nerf keys and remove Mori’s. Keys become useful if you are either last alive (hatch doesn’t open anymore) or all gens are done. Mori’s removed entirely. I can actually understand green ones. That one makes sense. Yellow ones are practically useless. But ebonys nah. It’s an offering slot for killers first of all. They don’t really have any other contenders for that slot and it has too much of an impact on the game. You already got add ons 😂 what do you need the offering slot for? Survivors don’t have anything
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Thank you for having a brain lol
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They're not directly comparable but they're disliked for similar reasons, as they can both end the match in a way that feels premature for one or more players
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Keys are stonger than moris so at that part you’re true.
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The hell are you smoking? Survivour escaping = winning! Thats how a survivour win my man. And the key gives you a free win if you FAIL. How the hell is that not winning?
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Then you’re biased, blind or don’t understand how keys/moris work
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Personally, winning is by pipping, and getting max points. Escaping by doing nothing all game is not winning the game.
don’t agree? Don’t care lol
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"You failed to hook me 3 times, you failed to your objective! Why the hell do you think you deserve a free kill"? Fact of the matter is, with a mori all you have to do is catch a survivor, camp a hook and insta down them and BOOM out of the game. You can literally mori someone out of the game in the first 60 seconds of a match. Survivors cant use a key in the first 60 seconds of a match.
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Mori activation requirement: 1 hook and 1 down.
Key requirement: Get the hatch to spawn.
How difficult is it to use at high level play?
Mori: You have to down 1 survivor twice (if used toxically, that is). That can take up to 2 minutes for each one (depending on the survivor), which can allow them to get all the gens done, and for the others to escape. That is if you tunnel that one survivor. All survivors are given a warning that you are using a mori as well, so they will probably sweat even harder. I have seen killers bring moris but not kill a single survivor because they don't get caught or don't get caught twice. That and I have seen people dc when they get downed twice, even if they were not tunneled, just to avoid one.
Key: You have to get more gens done than people alive for the hatch to spawn. The first 3 usually go pretty quickly, if you can get the last 2 done, then there is at least 1 guaranteed escape. Depending if you are preparing ahead of time, you can hide the fact you have a key. However, if survivors are pressured, they may prepare for a hatch game. This means that they will check for a key on corpses or in chests. The mere presence of a key (without a White Ward or Weaved Ring) practically guarantees 1 survivor escapes, but I have had games with 3 survivor escapes because of a key. All because I was applying a little bit of pressure.
And a personal gripe about keys: it is very hard for me to see keys in the menu. They are small and are a similar color to the ground, combined with the fact that my eyesight is not the best... I cant see keys in the lobby. So when people escape and I see they had a they had a key, I get pissed because I literally couldn't see it coming.
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Your key can also be knocked out of your hand (Franklin's). A mori can't even be DS'd on if you're tunneled off the hook. 😉
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"And a personal gripe about keys: it is very hard for me to see keys in the menu. They are small and are a similar color to the ground, combined with the fact that my eyesight is not the best... I cant see keys in the lobby. So when people escape and I see they had a they had a key, I get pissed because I literally couldn't see it coming."
Welcome to what's like to be a survivor. 😂
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They are not compariable, you're right.
You only get a Mori from the blood web, it's used only once, and requires a balanced objective before being able to use it.
Key's you can get for free during a match. You can keep it at the end of a match even if you don't use it. You can use add ons and offerings to keep it longer. Using it not only gives you a free win, but anyone else nearby or finds the free win mechanic before the Killer.
The only counter to it is to tunnel/camp the person with the Key and the Key when it's on the ground. While the only way to counter a Mori is by playing the game properly.
Now that's explained, wanna know why we have Key's?
The Hatch Mechanic wasn't in the original game, the hatch mechanic was only brought to the game because BHVR had a problem with players (Survivors) taking the game hostage by hiding during the end of the match instead of doing gen's. BHVR responded to the players literally exploiting a game mechanic, by rewarding them a mechanic that would grant them a free win for being the last survivor. Then after that - for fun - they've added Key's and the all escape achievement. Then followed by trying to balance both the hatch, and key's for years. To honestly no avail, because it's an entirely broken mechanic in the first place, that was a poor decision to implement in the first place.
Now that's explained, wanna know why we have Mori's?
Because BHVR wanted Killer's to have a cool, and unique killing animation - so they've added Mori's. Being as overpowered as they were. They had to change them to require at least one hook before you can use it, which makes sense from a balancing stand point as most survivors that are good at the game wouldn't get hooked once, let alone get caught twice. However this does make issues for when Killer's use Mori's against players that are not yet good at the game, so I could see balancing for Mori's be revisited in the future.
As you can see. Key's are vastly more over powered than Mori's, but yes they shouldn't be compared. I think because they were put in the game for two totally different reasons.
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How about not bring in a key in the first place? I mean, you have the potential to find one in the chests anyway. For the most killers a mori is just the forced answer if they see a key in the lobby. You would be surprised how few moris you see if you just ready up in the lobby without the stupid "quick switch mindgame". At least in high ranks were moris actually hurt the killer enblems.
I don't like both, both means no normal game and are just a shortcut. Either they should get rid of or rework them.
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I care not for the endless argument of "Moris are worst than keys/Keys are worst than Moris".
Fact is they both allow you to skip core mechanics of the game and are detrimental for the overall health of a match.
Put plainly both need to be reworked or removed, simple as that.
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"While the only way to counter a Mori is by playing the game properly."
😂😂😂 There is no counter to a mori. You are designed to get caught if you are chased. And you will get tunneled if you are hooked. But nice try.
Also, don't be cheeky. A killer has to do 30% of his actual job in a match if he brings a mori. Survivors have to do 1 more gen than the number of people on the map. Which means at 4 people, survivors have to do 100% of their job. At 3 people, they have to do 80%. At 2 people, they have to do 60% and the last guy can finally have some reprieve because it isn't meant to be a 1v1 game, and he is disadvantaged terribly at this point (hence why the hatch was actually introduced).
A mori can be used in the first minutes of the game, immediately shifting the balance in the killer's favor. A key cannot be used until significant end game, if at all. And key escapes happen significantly less frequently than moris because its very obvious moris are more OP. You are bananas.
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And how so i failed?
I hooked you and killed you. There is no objective that force the killer to hook 3 times.
Killers job is to keep the gens off, hook the survivours and kill them.
As i see my job is well done. You got hooked, rescued, healed, found by the killer and downed. Now put give or take the time you just kept hiding because of the mori or the killer kept chasing others. I think thats a decent amount of time. But rather spent it on the hook, you spent it in the game, and after you got downed you get the mori.
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Escaping by doing nothing is not winning i agree. But the key provides that, also you can pip if you did well and get the hatch via a key.
So yeah key = winning depending on the view and how you played, also its a big middle finger to some mechanics that in the game.
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No, you just have no idea how the game works simple as that.
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Except you didnt.. you used a gimp item to bypass 2 hook phases, any chance for decisive strike, a pallet save or a flashlight save. And in most cases, people that Mori on first hook camp the hook for an immediate down before the survivor even gets a chance to run away.
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I'm honestly not shocked some killers find Moris balanced and okay to use.
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It's honestly amazing how many Killers defend Mori's and think they're good for the game. Yeah the animations are cool to watch, but the fact that an Ebony and Ivory could kill you after just 1 hook is ridiculous. Could you imagine the outrage we would have if Survivors could use a key after completing just 1 Gen? They're no where near comparable.
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Yes i bypass 2 hook phase and a BS perk. But thats only apply if the killer camps, which lets face it at that point the mori doesnt matter.
If i have a mori, and find you after you got saved,healed and done stuff on the map, and i chased others and hooked others. I can simply choose that you get the mori.
There was no tunnel, you kept playing, got caught.
Thats it. I did my job, if you rely on 2. chance perk to play the game im sorry but thats just sad.
Faced survivours that could easily loop for a long time without second chance perks or even just win the chase and make me completly lost them.
They didnt cry about mori, cuz they was able to play the game instead of crying.
If i mori someone its because they brought a key+map or a lot of flashlights(i put the mori on so i could end them if they are toxic swf, sometimes i dont even use it).
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"Thats it. I did my job, if you rely on 2. chance perk to play the game im sorry but thats just sad."
Says the guy defending moris.
You rely on 4 perks and an addon that cuts the game by 2/3rds.
Sorry, you rely on 4 perks, TWO addons, and an offering that cuts the game by 2/3rds.
You have no room to talk.
And yeah, keys and moris are not the same thing.
If survivors had an addon that automatically had 1 gen done when we spawned, then THAT would be a fair comparison.
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Yep and I hate keys so much I will throw an entire game to make sure you get moried asap. This guy is so wrong I can't say how many times survivors have done gens so fast they 3 gen themselves. I hold them and slowly start killing just to have 3 escape the sec the first one dies. And I don't know what's worse that happening because of a looted key + should never be in chests ) or because they brought one and I missed it
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I'm fine with hatch keys and mori's getting removed also they are comparable because both end the match early
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Nah... shortcuts are shortcuts
Surviors have 4 second chance perks to help them survive a mori
and mori blood web locked and very uncommon. items spawn in trails by the load
While killers just have to pray 🙏 that everyone just doesn't suddenly escape for no reason randomly.
Web lock keys. And make it so that only the person having it can escape. And make it so they have a minimum gen they have to do themselves and THEN it'll be like its = to a mori.
Mori base kit. Completely remove hatch. That'd be more fair
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Well, I added that because there are people who have better eyesight than me. Dismissing the other points because I add a caveat at the end for why I, personally, don't like keys is just a weak argument.
Ultimately, comparing not being able to see something that should be shown at the beginning to something you are never meant to know ahead of time are two very different things. (For instance, seeing a Ghostface ahead of time will allow survivors to make anti-Ghostface builds, ruining the killers experience overall.)
Killer and survivor are two fundamentally different experiences and weakening one side to strengthen the other is only going to hurt the game in the long run.
Survivors should need teamwork to actually win a match. They don't have to because of 1 item (and lots and lots of crutch perks).
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Not defending, i say mori is the same as key thats all.
And why talk about 4 perks when the other side has 16 second chance perk to use, 4 items with 8 addons to cut the game lengths as well, or either mess with the killer.
The only one here who has no room to talk is you sir.
The converstion not even mentioning perk or addon use. Just he mentioned Ds because mori counters that.
Either put something thoughtfull into the conversation or dont say a thing because thats the most useless and dumb answear i got in a long time.
Maybe fill that bottomless survivour head with info on both side before make an answear this useless.
Talking about perks/items/addons like 1 side has only access to it is just ######### at this point.
Have you even play the game? If not there is a ton of good videos on youtube to start.
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Once upon a time the Key was even more broken than a mori, but now with the changes the developers have made to survivors. From ripping every single stamina perk to ribbons and nerfing all the survivor items and addons
The mori is now so much stronger through these direct and indirect changes. Anybody who's played killer for a few months has enough moris on at least one killer to either go on a marathon mori session for a few days
Or even worse have reached critical mass in mori amount so they basically never have to play a mori-less game on their killer if they want to. The moris need a change
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I'm gonnna be a bit nitpick-y, but within 2 minutes, the survivors at most can only have 3 gens done, however, usually you find that a survivor gets off a gen when a chase is finished - this takes times away from doing objective.
I've had plenty of times (As survivor and killer) finding the survivor team all wanting to be heroes and getting unhooks - which really kills the game for them. Personally, I've never ran a mori simply because i don't level up my killers at all, but I could've had games which would've been ended in 5 minutes, or had atleast a survivor killed in the first 2.
For your key argument, i've genuinely never encountered someone escaping through hatch the moment that it spawns. Many people like to argue that escaping is the main way of 'winning' as survivor, but it can be quickly observed that survivors would rather sacrifice themselves and not escape in favour of getting higher scores for altruism, or evader than to leave quickly and it being unprompted by killer pressure to do so. The usage of keys is rare and few, and a key escape usually needs to have heavy coordination - where you do as much as possible before escaping through hatch to ensure pipping or safety pipping.
I think keys are a fair way to give a survivor a fighting chance against a killer. I've had plenty of games where I've contributed as much as possible to the team, and end up being the last one alive. The killer in such a situation has a natural advantage over me - most pallets have been used, the doors are constantly shown to the killer and unlocking the gates give the killer a chance to do patrol at LEAST once between them (that's if they didn't spawn right next to eachother). Survivor perks don't give the survivors more power than the killer, most perks prolong the inevitable more than anything, so I realistically have no choice but to hope that I can find hatch before the killer does - which happens quite frequently. But the question that I should propose: Why should the killer be guaranteed the last kill? Kills aren't entitled to a killer so if a key gets used then that's perhaps the killers fault for not targeting the survivors with a key, no?
Moris defeat the purpose of the game for the survivor, often times, when a Mori is in play (Or believed to be in play), the focus of the survivor switches from trying to do the generators to fighting back as much as possible against the killer so that they don't get downed or put on hook. My whole game gets affected by the possibility of this one offering because survivors suddenly become more scared to even do the objective and get caught off-guard. How is that fair? lol
As for the lobby part, i honestly think that neither killer nor survivor should see each other in lobby, i believe that it gives an advantage to the killer to have the pre-match knowledge and understanding of what kind of match they are getting into.
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Survivors cant bring perks to counter moris so imo its fine that keys can be found in chests
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I forgot to mention: I also hate this argument of 'You can get a key in a chest', AND?
Killers get perks that can deny completion of objective, they get addons for their powers which can be even more BS that one has to deal with in a match (don't get me started on iridescent head huntress, or a leatherface with instant revs), AND an offering which gives them an extra ability that can kills survivors within the first minute of the match.
What survivor offering gives the survivor an ingame ability?
In Survivor bloodwebs, you have: Items, Perks, Addons, Offerings.
In Killer bloodwebs, you have: Perks, Addons, Offerings.
This means, that statistically speaking, a killer is more likely to get Moris in their bloodweb than a survivor is to get a key.
Searching a chest can give you 5 possibilities, so you have a 1/5 chance of getting a key. Then you add on rarities - 5/22 of a chance to get a key.
That's based on CHANCE of pulling out a key in a chest. Moris don't have a chance of working - they are going to work. Moris can't be countered in any way - whereas countering a key consists of the killer completing their objective of killing survivors. Not to mention the fact that some killers also have instant knockdown abilities which can deny a survivor of even engaging in a chase and making self-care useless
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I don't actually agree.
This is on the basis that realistically - what chance does a sole survivor have of opening a gate against a killer that can AT LEAST patrol between the gates once before one is opened? (If we're talking about them being across the map). Hatches are like the second counter to NOED but it also puts the pressure on the killer to know the location of hatch - which i think is actually a fair mechanic because not often is a killer under pressure and one shouldn't be entitled necessarily to having the last kill.
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Thanks for not being blind lol
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Except if you go by score, as a killer you have failed by using a Mori as it deprives you of bloodpoints and having a higher score.
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You just pointed out all the differences...
People are comparing the 2 because of what they have in common (such as little counterplay, a lot of frustration when you’re facing either etc), not because of how they differ.
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Except if you did something in the game then why is a survivor not allowed to have the possible option of escaping through hatch? Killers aren't entitled to getting kills, and survivors aren't entitled to escaping, but why should a survivor be denied the opportunity of an alternative escape if the main way of escaping can generally be too dangerous and unfavourably on the killer's side if you're in a 1v1 situation? Killers have several ways of handling their kills, they can facecamp, tunnel, or leave and find another survivor, they can trap the hook to essentially deny a safe escape from hook. This is not even taking in consideration Moris.
A survivor can't do gens in even two different ways, there's only one way to do a generator.
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