Why does every Killer have NOED in every single game I played?
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If they can kill you they do deserve the kill, if they dont they didnt. Just like if you escape you deserve the escape. Why wouldnt that be true? You deserve whatever you can take in this game, thats true of both sides as long as you're not legit cheating. Noed/tunneling/camping isnt cheating any more than gen rushing/ds/bt/pallet looping is 🤷♂️
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Because its a clutch perk that can get you out of a tight spot. Ds is only a problem because people can abuse it by running around clickjng flashlights while theyre immube to the hook. Otherwise its fine (though the timer on it should be reduced a little)
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This. Add on 2-3 borrowed times as well and that's red ranks in a nutshell.
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Even to the devs own satistics there is a SWF group(even if its just a 2 man) in every other game.
While its not every game its still a noticable amount that you really cannot realistically pick up on as a solo player as you inherently dilute the pool by making it so 4 man groups can't be in the same game as you are.
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It's true that they haven't released statistics since then, but I'm quite sure that if kill rates had plummeted after the Ruin rework and never recovered, the devs would have taken notice and done something about it. Also, I have spoken to members of the dev team about it since then (on their streams, to clarify, in case anyone misinterprets that to mean that Trusted members have some kind of direct line or influence that we don't), and by all accounts, statistically, everything has been pretty positive.
Incidentally, what you're describing is a problem with the Emblem system (if anything), not the absence of Ruin. And it's been explained in the past that Ruin was skewing the statistics so much that it needed to not be so prevalent in order to properly diagnose and fix the actual problems. It may have worked as a band-aid at the time, but in the long run it was impeding the game's upward progress.
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Obviously ruin nerf did do something otherwise they wouldn't have nerfed loops, reduced map size, removed some God loops. It remains to be seen if it is enough. But maybe if survivors stopped getting 2 gens done before I can finish getting the first guy on the hook I might stop running noed. Until then I'm going to do what I have to in order to win. Which is just going to make anger on both sides rage as tunneling and camping are the only way a rank 1 killer can keep the game going for more that 4 minutes against a SWF.
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I know a couple of rank 1 killers who would beg to differ.
It's fine if you want to use NOED. I'm not going to attack or think less of you for it. It's a pretty good perk, and if it works for you, that's great. But it's not doing you or anyone else any favours to perpetuate this false narrative that NOED is anything close to the only way to win at high ranks.
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NOED is great for both giving the killer a second chance to get a kill and mining salt. Swat SWFs can run full meta DS, DH, UB, BT with toolboxes and insta heals and send you to Ormond, god forbid the killer gets a second chance perk too
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because gens get done too fast and its one of the few legit strategies to counter it
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They did something...they nefed group repairing and made maps smaller...why else would they do that if kill statistics didnt plummet? Gen speeds have always been a problem, thats why they introduced ruin to begin with
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Do we have any evidence that low kill rates were the reason for those changes, as opposed to the reasons they actually gave (game health, map balance, etc.)? Just because Ruin got changed and then later they adjusted maps and coop repairs doesn't necessarily mean one was a direct result of the other. Correlation does not equal causation.
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The "Starting Phase" of the game was completely eradicated after the Ruin nerf.
NOED offers great End Game pressure, if survivors allow it.
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🤦♂️ What do you think game health and map balance means exactly 😂 The fact that they made the changes is the evidence. If the opposite were true, if killers were 4king every game, they would have went the other way. This is stupid simple.
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JuSt ApPLy pResSuRe
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Or maybe, kill rates didn't change very much either way and those changes were made with the goal of improving the player experience in mind and had nothing to do with kill rates. The fact that someone did a thing is not evidence for why they did the thing. That's an assumption that you're making.
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No, its not an assumption. It's common sense in this case.
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Stating that your opinion is common sense is a good way to dismiss someone else's, but it rings false in this case. The reality is, neither of us knows the truth beyond what we've been told by the developers. If it helps, I'll ask one of them on their stream next time I get the chance and let you know what they say.
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Personally I never bring NOED. Getting kills with NOED just never seems to be rewarding. I like earning my kills and NOED just feels like I’m getting it handed to me on a silver platter. Progressing through the ranks without NOED rather then with has overall made me a much better player.
Biggest problem I have with it when playing survivor is you have to be sure to cleanse all 5 totems for it no to activate. This seems very RNG dependant because there’s those games where my team gets 4 totems, but are never able to find the last one due to RNG. Then NOED comes in and out best efforts weren’t enough.
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These players have no self confidence in themselves and rely on the biggest second chance perk in the game. That’s why lol
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When you say boring, do you mean challenging?
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You haven't "lost" as a killer until people are out. Gens being done is NOT the end of the game.
Also kinda ironic, since it's survivors that get the, "Ok, you failed everything, here's an escape anyway." mechanic.
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Baby killers
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Its gen rush insurance. Takes about 4 minutes to get all 5 gens done with one or two strong loopers running the killer. Noed insures at least a kill or two. I run it on 110% killers and will continue to do so until bhvr fixes the gen times.
If you get a team that wants to gen rush, it's impossible to stop them. You can't apply enough pressure unless you can end every chase in 30 seconds, which can't be done without iri head or a godlike nurse. You need time to chase, time to mind game, and time to break loops. When you get potato survivors, which I'm convinced is all bhvr gets, you've got time, but with a gen rush team, this doesn't happen.
Not even the streamers can stop one of those teams, they just take the loss and move on.
With old ruin, they would get a hex skill check, then go looking for the totem. Now there's no point, so they rush. Noed punishes their single minded approach.
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😀the many times killers chased me for cleansing one of those a week ago a killer said if you touch my totem you die.
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I promise I'm not trying to rub anything in, this is just for the sake of clarity because I promised I would tell you what I found out. I did ask Almo about the Ruin changes and the recent mid-chapter update, and he said that while the Ruin nerf did affect average generator completion time and average game length (minimally, by about 30 seconds or so), it had little to no effect on the kill rates. Additionally, the recent changes to maps and repair speeds were in no way motivated by the Ruin rework or its aftermath, they just knew that it was something the players were concerned about and the devs agreed with those concerns to an extent, so it made sense to change it.
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I just find it hard to believe it had 0 impact on kill rates at all. At tge very least there should have been a few weeks to a month period where killers that were dependant on it (like myself) had to learn how to play without it.
If everyone did what I did I can see why kill rates werent effected to much, i depipped myself back to 13 and got back to 1 without it. Took me a min but i got there, my own kill rates dipped for a few weeks then came back up. Idk, maybe youre right just seems really hard to believe
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If Ruin had such a minimal affect on game time and kill rate then why change it? Just because it was popular?
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No, they explained why they did it at the time: because it wasn't fun to play against, and because it skewed the balance of the game in a way they didn't like. That can mean more than just trial length or kill rates. For example, it's very difficult to gather accurate data on default game speeds and killrates and such when there is a single perk like Ruin used in almost every game. It could be having very little effect, but it's hard to tell that in advance without seeing how things go without it.
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Ik this is unrelated to the thread but out of curiosity how do you become a "trusted" on the fourms?
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In the interests of not derailing the thread, I'll leave a comment on your profile 😊
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It goes like this:
- As the game design, its mostly all 4 Survivors able to escape through Gates, OR 1 Survivors escape through hatch. As soon as 1 dies, 3 other Survivors know 2 of them have to die (I dont speak about key here)
- The longer time that 5Gen done, the lower chance that Survivors able to escape => Gen rush happens
- If simply do Gen and escape, Survivors will not pip or many bp. So they prefer to have the escape ready and get some hit,chase,unhook. Then add another 5000bp escaping as the final bonus. This explain alot why Survivors dont escape right away when Gates are open, but rather fooling around near the Gates.
- Of course no Killers want to have a game that only able to hit & hook without any kill. So Noed happens.
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What Rank killer are you fibijean?
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Around green. I spend more time watching killer gameplay than I do actually participating in it, and I'll be the first to admit I'm not the best at it and I don't understand firsthand all the struggles that top-ranked killers face (although with matchmaking as it is, I have faced my fair share of red-ranked survivor teams). I can empathise, and I can analyse, two things which I like to think I'm fairly good at, but I don't have that same shared experience. So, as with anything that I don't have sufficient personal experience in to draw conclusive assessments on that basis, I therefore rely on the testimonies of friends who are skilled killers, intelligent people and whose judgement I trust to fill in the gaps.
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I Disagree. Until you've played red rank killer against rank 1 swat with friends, you don't know how it feels to get bullied in a game where you're at a major disadvantage by complete jerks. In my case, I don't usually play the top tier killers because I find them boring. Also I don't play sweaty and bust out all the stops like some of the jerk killers I play. I don't tunnel, camp, mori, etc. So when someone like me, and I'm a really good killer, can get mercilessly stomped by swat with friends who rub it in your face every time they drop a pallet, etc, even though you aren't playing like a jerk, it gets to you. Noed punishes the worst of these groups who do nothing but gens asap to ######### the killer. For you to say its a misconception that ruin was needed to slow the game down shows you have no clue what its like to play a high rank killer, watching others play without being invested yourself is not the same as doing the work to have the experience to have an accurate feeling of what's its like.
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You disagree with what? I admitted straight-up in my comment that I didn't have the first-hand experience necessary to truly understand what high-ranked killers go through. The reason I can confidently say what I said about NOED in spite of my inexperience is because I've discussed it in the past with people who do know what they're talking about. If you think that anyone who says that Ruin was never actually necessary for success as a killer doesn't have a clue what it's like to play killer at high ranks (in spite of the fact that the stats strongly suggest otherwise), you may want to have a chat with the red-ranked killers who share my viewpoint rather than with me.
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No. The devs have proven they don't give a damn about the killer. They wouldn't nerf survivor tools unless the stats went to the toilet. I'd bet overall kill rates were lurking around 35% with the ruin nerf and constant matchmaking bugs.
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You were on your high horse about how noed isn't necessary and that its a false assumption that its a counter to the fact that gens go too fast. You're speaking from a place of ignorance because you have no experience in the matter. If you know red rank killers that disagree, they exclusively play top tier killers or bring moris, tunnel, camp etc instead. If you're watching content, you aren't getting the full experience, you're getting what they choose to show you. My point is that before you go asserting that needing noed is false, get good enough to actually achieve red ranks and have a meaningful opinion on the subject. Its hell, it is not fun. I can play survivor all day and not stress out. As killer you get The wrong swat with friends and it gets my blood pumping and its stress city.
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Actually, regarding the assumptions you're making about my friends, none of the above. Some people are simply really good at the game. I've tried to be reasonable and honest with you, but it seems like you're not prepared to discuss this in good faith. Leaving aside the irony of you making baseless assumptions about the way other people necessarily play while accusing me of doing the same, at the point where I'm "on my high horse" because I've expressed an opinion you take personal offence to, I don't think there's anything more productive to be said here.
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Cause you don’t cleanse and it works on you every time just a thought
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I'm "really good at the game." I'm not God tier but I'm a step below that. I'm saying that if you're trash talking noed because it's not necessary you fundamentally don't understand the current state of the game. Like I said get to rank 1 and come talk to me.
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embrace the killer side... we have cookies or whatever fav food you like 🤣
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Haha, tempting, I do like cookies! And I have been enjoying killer a lot more recently - the Tome challenges got me all inspired. Although overall I'm more of a 80/20 survivor main, recently it's been more 70/30 on the killer side.
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all kidding aside, i very much appreciate the presentation of your replies/posts. they come off as born in reason. I hope your thesis/project goes well🤟
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lol aim for 65/35 👀🤣
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Thank you. I do try to be fair and reasonable in my discussions, so it's reassuring to hear that it comes across that way. And thank you for the good wishes! I hope the project goes well, too - I may even share it here once it's finished, depending on whether or not the contents end up being too inflammatory.
I don't want to derail this topic any further, but feel free to hit me up on my wall or in one of my other discussions if you had more to say 😊
P.S. I'll see what I can do 😋
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Yeeeeah relying on luck in an already survivor sided game is meh. Noed is consistant at least and works every time because noone learned to do the bones still. If you see noed everywhere why won’t you replace that unbreakable or BT or some other bullsh_t with small game and start countering it?
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anyways... lol viva la NOED
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because it a popular perk,that's why I run small game all the time as survivor
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For those of you in the "just do bones" camp, have you ever found and broken all five of the totems all on your own? Did you achieve this feat without the use of a Perk that will help you find totems? Did you still Escape through the Exit Gate?
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because they arent good at the game
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