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Unpopular Opinion: Tunnelling
I know I'm gonna get flamed for posting this by a lot of people but so be it. I will just do my best to explain my point of view in a calm manor. So...
In my opinion, tunnelling is going for a survivor the entire time to get them out of the match or slug them even though there is other survivors present for you to go after. If a killer comes back to the hook and sees both survivors running away, but chose to go after the recently unhooked person, that is tunnelling. If a killer comes back to the hook, both survivors run in different directions and the killer happens to see only you which then leads to the survivor getting hooked again or slugged for DS then it is NOT tunnelling as the killer only saw the recently unhooked and had no other options. The killer should not let the only person they see go just because they were recently unhooked and ran in the wrong direction because that defeats the point of killer.
Part 2: Tunnelling is okay within reason. A killer's job is to kill you by any means similar to how a survivor's job is to escape by any means. If the killer sees and injured person and a healthy person, logically you should go for the injured as they are the easier prey and you can eliminate them faster. Tunnelling is okay if you need to get someone out of your game to snowball. Tunnelling is NOT okay when you are deliberately doing it to ruin someone's experience (and in most cases this leads to the person being camped or slugged until bleed out)
At the end of the day, people can tunnel if they want as they paid for the game and tunnelling is not breaking any REAL rules of the game. This is just my opinion on it. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
Comments
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I agree. Although I absolutely despise it, I do understand that it is a valid strategy at times.
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That's completely okay too. I 100% understand that it is not fun to play against. Just think more people need to see that it is a strategy similar to gen rushing with just focusing on the objective of that role.
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Yup. At certain times tunneling and camping really just can be the most efficient play a killer can make. I don't mind it in certain situations when it is actually the smart play for them to make.
After all, this game is pretty much all about time efficiency.
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Same. While I also don't like when they chase one survivor all game even though they see multiple other survivors working on gens, I understand the mindset. Some people just want to get that kill (and in some cases get so mad that they will throw the game to have it). I have this opinion for both sides even when I'm the one being tunnelled. Sure I might complain for a bit, but I always acknowledge that it is a valid strategy and move onto the next match
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2/4 survivors will have crutch strike at high ranks. Sometimes it will be 4/4 survivors with crutch strike. There is no need to justify yourself.
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Wasn't really to justify myself, just to put my opinion out there. Though I suppose it could be used as justification. In my opinion, no one should have to justify how they play a game that they paid money for. Sure everyone might not agree with it, but it is your call at the end of day (so long as you aren't cheating as I said before).
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I disagree with the "I only saw you" part, because 9/10 times a killer says that, they didn't look hard enough and you were probably that close to that hook for a reason. Unless you are out to ruin someone's game then, just slug them and move on. It applies just as much pressure and is nowhere near as infuriating.
I can also understand it as a strategy to delete an OoO/Key user because that's just begging for it. But against a normal survivor, especially one who didn't bring an item? Didn't show any signs of toxicity such as teabagging? Any of that?
The person being tunnelled also payed for this game, and they should be given more than the first 30 seconds of a match to play the game they paid for too. That statement works BOTH ways. Neither side is a free game, and if I get camped/tunnelled enough, then I'm going to leave and let the devs know that it is entirely the reason.
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If survivors are having a problem with being tunnelled then they should either get better at running or work on their stealth. If you are in a chase with the killer most of your games, there is no way you didn't learn something that could improve your chase. Sometimes you are found first and it sucks, but that is just luck. I highly doubt anyone could be eliminated from the game in less than 3-5 minutes unless your team had some hardcore hook farming going on in which case the blame is on your team. As far as the "I only saw you" part, that is exactly what happens. Why go look for someone and waste time when time is already against you and a survivor has run right towards you in your line of sight? I am not out to ruin anyone's game, but I will also not slug them and allow them to get back up unless I think they could have decisive. The job of the killer is to kill, not down the survivor and have them get back up because they were upset they died too fast. As far as my statement went, I said that you paid for the game and you should play it how you want. It had nothing to do with enjoyment originally. But yes, you should enjoy it. The problem is that everyone has different ideas of enjoyment. I enjoy being chased, I don't really care if I die as survivor. Others may not have the same view. While both sides paid for it, so did the other side and they have every right to play how they choose within the rules. Whether or not the other side chooses to deal with it is up to them.
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Being tunneled sucks but I understand it. It's like survivors doing generators. If you see one that is 50% done and one that hasn't even been started, in most cases it's best to go for the one that is halfway done.
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The thing is, survivors overuse the terms tunnel, camp, soft tunnel, blah blah blah. If the killer wants to go for the same person over and over it's their choice. There are risks like bt, and ds but if they really want to take someone out, I'm sorry but this game isnt "live by daylight" the killers one objective is to hook survivors 3 times until theyre dead. The rules dont specify who and when. If you want to play with made up rules go play KYF. The words survivors spew are just buzzwords to me at this point. I get called every name in the book even when I dont camp/tunnel.
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I don't care if I die as a survivor, as long as I die WELL. And I've worked on both stealth AND running but sometimez you just don't get that chance.
I slug them not only to ensure I don't get hit by DS, but also because they aren't my target and it still applies pressure. Easy. They don't hate me, I still kill everyone.
And as I've said before, the names "Survivor" and "Killer" are misleading. Killers are more akin to torturers, and your main goal is protect your generators, rather than go kill-crazy. Survivors are victims, and their main goal is to live as long as they can. The idea that killers should only kill is both narrow-minded and outdated while the emblem system is in effect.
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I guess, if you want to support one of the most toxic play styles in the game. 🤷♀️
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I respect your opinion on tunnelling and I do agree with you for the most part. What I don't agree with is the "If a killer comes back to the hook, both survivors run in different directions and the killer happens to see only you which then leads to the survivor getting hooked again or slugged for DS then it is NOT tunnelling". Proxy-camping is a valid strategy don't get me wrong, but isn't the whole point of coming back to the hook to target the healthy survivor? If they both RAN in opposite directions, they are both equal distance from the hook and leave scratch marks. Surely you can follow some scratch marks? If there aren't any then you know they are very close and didn't run. I'd say it's actually beneficial for you as a killer to go after the person who unhooked since the other will likely spend time healing. If not, then they are an easy 1 hit down later.
When I play killer, I always try my best to leave the person who has just been unhooked. Mostly to avoid DS/BT, but also coming from their perspective it just boring and a huge waste time to be chased, downed, hooked, unhooked, chased, downed and hooked/slugged. Killers who tunnel are the reason I always run Sprint Burst, so I can leave the hook as fast as possible. I don't use DS really because when I equip it, I never need it. I seem to only need it when it's not there.
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I'm pretty sure what people consider toxic is just both sides playing as Optimally as they can.
Tunneling to get rid of the weakest survivor as quickly as possible is the most optimal thing to do, of course you shouldn't just focus entirely on that person but they should probably be the first survivor you kick off the game because even the dumbest and most unskilled Survivor can hold M1 for 80 seconds on a generator. Every Survivor living is a liability to your own success.
Same with SWF groups, though when I say toxic, I just mean the ability to play with your friends over Voice Chat. These groups tend to be guilty of being bully groups every now and then, but they're not too common.
Actual toxicity is when you stop playing the game in order to annoy or ruin the experience of another player. Toxicity is when you intentionally and willingly throw your own game to make sure your opponent doesn't have fun.
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The problem is people sometimes don't know when to leave a survivor. They will deliberately lose the game in order to kill this one survivor who looped them well.
I agree with your assessment btw. No one should tunnel unless they have a good reason. If I know this person is on death hook, and only 2 gens are left then I may chase and down them for pressure. If there are 5 gens left then there's not much point in chasing them.
People just shout "tunneller" even though they may not actually understand why they felt that they needed to do it.
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Imo tunneling is never ok. Its just the outcome of some serious problems in the game. Because you cant go through 24 health states without performing optimal and even then its hardcore sweating. And lets be real, even if bE would give you the tools to go for 12 hooks and ~24 health states in every game regardless which killer you play, tunneling wouldnt stop.
I think only because some ppl claim tunneling to be a strategy or something that needs to be done in certain scenarios doesnt legitimate it to be aok.
I would be in favor to discuss what needs to be changed to not fall back on tunneling instead of trying to justify it in the current game state.
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If the killer runs back to the unhook and sees the person just unhooked running away... You are of the opinion they should leave them and go search for the stealthing survivor? Because that is what happens in most of these cases: the unhookee runs away while the unhooker stealths away because they aren't moaning in pain and actually have that option. Or, they run in the opposite direction to the unhookee and you still don't see them first.
If the killer has to look for the unhooker, then they may as well not. It's a time-sink. Better for the unhooker to actively take the heat instead of attempting to stealth, because otherwise why even risk not finding someone when you have a chase right there? That's not even tunelling: there is no other option but give them a free escape. That applies to following scratch marks as well: there's no way of seeing who left what. Often you follow them and start seeing pools of blood, but the only options are to give them a free escape or take the chase.
And the game-ruining thing goes both ways: 12 hooks is impossible. Playing nice is impossible. You have to pressure people, and while it's nice to see someone take the heat for the teammate it's not the killers job to seek that teammate out. That's what we call a five-minute match.
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SLUG them. And 12 hooks isn't impossible. Playing nice isn't impossible.
I manage it somehow. Well, maybe 10 hooks because I scare people with stealth.
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Slugging only has value if you can chain a chase. That's the problem with the whole stealthy-unhooker thing: you don't know where they are. Maybe if you're at 4-5 gens then sure, play nice, it's a dick move to kill someone off before the ball gets rolling although it's still understandable given the state of the game. My cuttoff is usually 2-3 gens, after that the kiddy gloves are off and I'm going to punish mistakes as best I can. If someone gets hooked twice in a minute then that sucks, but momentum is momentum and there's 3 people out there that could have been a team player and taken the heat. I do it all the time as survivor, but admitedly I also end up as the martyr half the time so I guess I understand why people dont trust their fellow solo's.
And I just have to say, if you are getting 10 hooks as anything but the strongest killers and strongest builds against decent survivors, you are extremely lucky. It's just basic maths at that point: assuming a very generous hook per minute, that's still a lot of gen time.
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I dont think slugging someone off hook is tunneling. I think chasing someone and only that someone through 2 hooks is tunneling. The smart play is to slug off hook and chase the unhooker. Now youre pressuring 3 survivors instead of one. Tunneling 1 person through 2 hooks with camps in between is stupid. People can do what they want, but youre going to lose that way more often than not
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Pig main. I don't have to worry about a lot. RBT's basically remove a survivor from the game, and I don't get very high in terms of rank (hovering around green), but I have versed reds and purples before the latest reset. If one has an RBT, and another is slugged, I now have HUGE potential as I have two people to worry about. That's just how I play.
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I'd call it tunnelling in either case - one scenario is just slightly less morally justifiable than the other.
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Almost everyone that has ever whined to me that I "tunneled" them was also the absolute worst survivor and dragged their teammates down by constantly being right out in the open for me to see or running in straight lines into dead zones. Or they over commit on a generator.
If you're hard to see, hard to catch, hard to down...you'll find that you won't get "tunneled" nearly as much. And before someone says, "But they were right there when I got unhooked!" then yell at your teammates, not the killer.
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Unpopular Opinions:
As a survivor, I don't mind being tunneled, I'm usually ok at chases, I can't do a full 5 gen run but I can hold a killer for a couple of gens unless I'm out positioned, what I'm not a fan of is having to wait 7 -10 minutes to get into my next game.
As a killer, I try to get as many of my 12 hooks as I can, but once it's down to 2 gens left sacrifices have to be made. Also, if I hook you and then chase and hook a different survivor you are fair game if I happen to run into you again.
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I hate to break it to you, but tunneling a good survivor will usually lose you the game depending on what map and killer you are playing. Especially if they have crutch strike.
The ~killer~ needs to be "morally justified" to kill the survivor, what a joke.
Just 12 hook the survivors when gens can get done in 4 minutes and every survivor has 3-4x second chance perks.
If you play billy, spirit, nurse, or oni you are trash though. Git gud.
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You're not breaking anything to me. That was a pretty big jump getting to that conclusion, which makes the insults and sarcasm even more unnecessary.
Where did I say that I thought killers had to be morally justified in anything they did? As I recall, what I actually said was that tunnelling when you have no other option is slightly less morally justified than choosing to tunnel. I did not say that killers shouldn't tunnel, nor, for the record, that tunnelling was morally unjustified.
I actually don't think anyone should be expected to do anything that isn't in their best strategic interests for the sake of the other players' enjoyment (although it is certainly nice when they choose to do so regardless), and I would never put someone down for employing a strategy like tunnelling, regardless of circumstances.
Next time, maybe take a second before you jump down any throats and make sure you're responding to what the person actually said, not what you mistakenly read into it.
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Implying something is morally justified is also implying that the killer is doing something wrong, aka morally unjustified. It doesn't matter how you try to disguise the implications.
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I apologise if my comment was unclear, but implications and inferences are not the same thing.
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people always wanna justified tunneling, camping etc
I can't be the only one who actually plays both sides and refuses to do stuff like that, it isnt fun for anyone
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Yeah. It seems to be getting used more and more as an excuse for why they didn't live. Like you said, the objective is just to kill. Just like survivors have the objective to just escape
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It should not matter if the other role does not like the way you are playing. If they are going to hate the way that you are playing the game, then it is probably time for them to look into other games. As I said before, people can play the game how they want. Do not get confused about the objectives, while protecting generators as killer is an objective, it is not the main objective. The main objective is to kill with protecting gens as a side objective to help you get those kills. If people want to go kill crazy then let them. Not everyone cares about the emblem system and ranking up. Some play this game just for kills/escapes
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A playstyle is a playstyle. As a killer, why would you let someone run away to heal up/repair gens and possibly escape? That is like saying survivors should stop doing generators to let the killer get hooks in
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If they happen to run the wrong way and come running directly back to me, of course I'm going to down them. If I don't see an obsession I will hook them too. It sucks, but it happens sometimes. You have to be more aware of where the killer is when you are on the hook. It's like I said before, there is no point in wasting time looking for a healthy person when the injured guy is running dead at you unaware.
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I said nothing about camping in my post. If you are patrolling and you go back to the hook (like most killers do when they aren't in a chase) and see the unhooked person making a beeline towards you because they weren't paying attention, you can bet I'm going to rehook them (especially if they are on death hook). I don't do this as much once one person is out of the game. After that I slug. While it applies pressure to slug, killing someone completely also applies a lot of pressure because then that is one less person doing gens
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Imo you are fair game if I happen to run into you while not in a chase. I will not break my chase, providing you haven't ran right in front of me. I do agree the wait time for the next match does suck, but that is a problem on it's own.
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I hear that but if i have the unhooker and unhookee in front of me its better to slug unhookee and chase unhooker. This way your pressuring 3 survivors instead of 2 (and ds rarely comes into play). My only point was, i dont think thats tunneling.
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If you refuse to tunnel, games are probably a lot more grueling. At the higher rank you practically have to get that first person out of the game as soon as possible and the easiest way to do that is by tunnelling. It does not really matter to me if the other side enjoys the way I play one side. The problem is that when one side is having fun, typically the other side isn't.
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That. Thats what Im trying to get at but you pit it way better than i did.
Actual tunnelimg is when you chase 1 person and 1 person only throwing the whole game. Thats why its called tunneling, you have tunnel vision when you do that and miss the 5 gens that get done in the meantime.
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how exactly do u justify something being moral when one party is a supernatural killer with beyond logical abilitys that kills and tortures to appease a godlike being known as the entity who has the ability to rip people from our world into one of its own making where it feeds off of pain and suffering and the breaking of peoples hope?
i mean the fact survivors hope to not be tunneled or hit by NOED.. wouldnt killers using that make the entity happy? :D by logic it would since the killer is destroying ur hope so the entity can feast
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I still will not let them stay there to get back up. Imo it is better to eliminate them quicker and create a permanent pressure than the temporary pressure slugging creates
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I play both sides, and id be considered "toxic" by both sides. As someone mentioned MOST people playing this game consider it "toxic" when you play optimally.
There are absolutely times when camping/tunneling (as they call it) is the optimal play. Just like running adrenaline, ds and bt is a good idea, and theyre a good idea because sometimes camping/tunneling is the optimal play.
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Whatever works for you. This has not been my experience. From my experience the more survivors you can pressure at once the better as it slows the game down, and the longer the game goes on the more advantageous it is for the killer. Its situational of course, sometimes eating the ds is the smart play. Just depends on whats going on.
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Killers dont have to ,,look harder" just because they see only one. This could lead to a potential loss of the survivor. Its not tunneling just because we only see this guy and didnt look harder.
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This. When time is against you, it is imperative you go after anyone you can get compared to looking for someone out of "fairness". When survivors have a lead way it is very easy for them to trail scratch marks and then you end up losing everyone
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Yes it is. But if that's how you want to justify it, then go ahead.
And I did say 9/10 times THEY DIDN'T LOOK. It could also be applied to other phrases such as "I couldn't be bothered", but the point is that you were close to a hook, meaning either they're getting farmed, or you're patrolling in the area or a high mobility killer coming back and saw me easily going "Easy target", rather than taking an extra 2 seconds to check the immediate area.
Runners get cocky. They make mistakes over time. Stealth players don't.
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If the unhookers stealths after an unhook, he's basically killing his teammate. If you dont actively take the heat while you're fine, ofc your injured, screaming, bleeding, closer-to-sacrifice teammate is a good target. What do you expect there. If you want to stop tunneling, you have to learn to how to bait after an unhook. Act like a dumbass free hit, spread scratchmarks everywhere, be the first the killers sees, crouchwalk in his LoS and split in a different direction. You gotta act like a tasty snack for the killer, not disappear and complain in the bushes why the killer is tunneling the other guy.
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Yeah, I don't unhook unless it's 90% safe.
I'm talking more about the times where I'm the unlucky guy who gets targeted. It's the reason that I started running DS. There have also been times where a killer is closer than we expect, they're healing me, the killer returns and all of a sudden I'm back on the ground because my teammate can't take an audio hint. It comes back to a question I find myself asking a lot in this game, and that's "why should I be punished for something my idiot team did/didn't do?"
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Why blame your teammate in that situation? You are the injured, you choose the place to heal. He's just following you as a healbot. Plan further ahead, how likely is the killer gonna come back. How far will he hear when he patrols back, how far is out of range for nurses calling. Is someone already getting chased, so we can heal under the hook. Or if it comes down to tunneling you, how can i waste the most time and where should i be healing so i can guarantee to make it to a loop.
You will slowly develop a "safe playstyle" this way and become unfavourable to tunnel. Some survivors are so obnoxiously distant at all times, its never worth starting a chase with them. They are usually kept for last and thus not beeing tunneled.
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Ummmm, because they held me there by still healing? Why else would I blame them for NOT LETTING ME RUN AWAY. And I am talking about healing under hook mostly. I don't really find many killers who use Nurse's Calling.
Healing under hook is a pretty common strategy, as it's a point where both players know where each other is and it wastes less time. I still run Self-Care for moments where we are separated, though. And, yes, I don't like to stay injured even though my current build has Resilience. I just 99 the healing.
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You can cancel their healing by running. Its been implemented extra for those situations. Usually its better to heal at a safe place. Healing under the hook is a death invite, unless you see the killer is chasing another survivor far away and unlikely to return. If you hear terrorradius while healing under the hook, you are already dead.
Btw im a selfcare user too, no need to justify it. Selfcare + Botany is a super efficient combo. Its all about when to heal and priorities.
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