Decisive Strike Change Doesn’t Make Sense

Luigifan64

What I’m about to say isn’t a “decisive is fine and should stay how it is” post. This is just pointing out something that doesn’t line up with the series that the perk is based on. Is the perk a problem? With 4 man teams who are skilled survivors; yes it is a big annoyance that only the best killers could actually have a chance to play against and I do agree and think that it needs a nerf. However how they’re going to change it doesn’t make sense with the source material. Before anyone says it, yes I know game balance is far more important than being accurate to an intellectual property, but this has just bugged me. Every licensed survivor and killer has had perks that line up with their movie series and they make sense with their characters (except for maybe the Nightmare on Elm Street one because that DLC felt rushed in some areas). More specifically, they made sense and fit the characters they were attached to and even after some were changed, they still made sense with their respected films (referring to Michaels perks), but the new D-Strike doesn’t.

In Halloween (for those who don’t know) Laurie Strode stabs Michael 2 times, temporarily incapacitating him before he gets back up (and no, I’m not implying that you should be able to use it 2 times). The old D-Strike does this well enough, but the new one just has the killer stand in place for x amount of seconds? It doesn’t at all fit in with the movie and it just sounds silly; like “ooo boy imma stab you” and the killer reacts by just standing still without reacting. Something that would make sense though is if the “only stun in place” thing applied to non-obsessions. Think about it, in the movie Laurie’s friends act as a distraction for her and only delay Michael, not being able to fight back, but Laurie is able to fight back and stun Michael. Basically where I’m getting with this is only have the old D-Strike apply to the obsession while the new D-Strike applies to everyone else.

I know this change will probably not happen, but I won’t be upset when D-Strike gets nerfed; I’m just going to be annoyed that the perk no longer makes sense with the movie. Idk, I just want to play Laurie and actually feel like I’m playing the movie with her heavy risk & loner build.

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Luigifan64

Lead_Cenobite said:

@Luigifan64 said:
What I’m about to say isn’t a “decisive is fine and should stay how it is” post. This is just pointing out something that doesn’t line up with the series that the perk is based on. Is the perk a problem? With 4 man teams who are skilled survivors; yes it is a big annoyance that only the best killers could actually have a chance to play against and I do agree and think that it needs a nerf. However how they’re going to change it doesn’t make sense with the source material.

And I stopped right there.

I shouldn’t have put this under balance feedback, because what I’m saying is less of balance and more of a personal annoyance; sorry ‘bout that. But if you actually read more you’d know that this is just a personal gripe I have with it not adding up to the original movie. It’s 100% ok to disagree with me, but don’t wite me off without hearing what I have to say completely first.

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yeet

DS should never have been put in the game in the first place

Luigifan64

yeet said:

DS should never have been put in the game in the first place

Very true, because this dilemma wouldn’t exist if that were the case.

Master

@yeet said:
DS should never have been put in the game in the first place

### happens when the community designs a perk, 80% are survivors....

Jack11803

Should still let you free, but only obsession can use it, everyone else can get screwed. (Its OPness is supposed to be a counter to being tunneled and mori’d for dying light etc; why does everyone get it!?)

Luigifan64

Jack11803 said:

Should still let you free, but only obsession can use it, everyone else can get screwed. (Its OPness is supposed to be a counter to being tunneled and mori’d for dying light etc; why does everyone get it!?)

Yeah, exactly! Only 1 person should be able to have that ability, plus it ties in better with the movie (as I stated before).

Rattman

Its Entity world, so killers here actually more powerful, than in their original worlds. And, you know, its up to Entity decide balance for trials.

KiraElijah

I like it

Luigifan64

Rattman said:

Its Entity world, so killers here actually more powerful, than in their original worlds. And, you know, its up to Entity decide balance for trials.

I know, I just wish the perk was more accurate.

I did see an idea that would have the killer get a skill check, and based on if the killer hit it or not would determine if the survivor got off or not. The survivor could wiggle to make the skillcheck shake around like how the doc makes them. I think that idea would also work well too.

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Luigifan64

Mycroft said:

In the movie Myers didn't get cucked by pallets or windows either. In fact none of them were run around in circles like greyhounds. I mean if you really want to stay true to the source material you can start there.

True, but the point I’m getting at are how accurate the perks are, and they currently are pretty accurate. Except Decisive, which doesn’t fully make sense (seriously, why can all 4 people use it?), but the change that they’re implementing makes even less sense.

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Milo

From the movie perspective yep sure.
Fromt the gameplay perspective rip

yeet

Milo said:

From the movie perspective yep sure.
Fromt the gameplay perspective rip

who cares, from a movie perspective all killers are "rip"

laKUKA

yes please buff! the skill check point is hard.

theArashi

Don't you remember that 'FIX' that removed the issue causing killer to be unable to be stunned during the pickup or hanging animation?

hyperversum

Mycroft said:

In the movie Myers didn't get cucked by pallets or windows either. In fact none of them were run around in circles like greyhounds. I mean if you really want to stay true to the source material you can start there.

Myers wasntw even a ######### human train running faster than humans even tho he was bulkier and for no reason more atlethic than various individual of the survivors .

Luigifan64

laKUKA said:

yes please buff! the skill check point is hard.

I’m not asking for a buff? The skillcheck isn’t hard, and if anything, I’m asking for it to be nerfed; just in a way that’s more accurate 

Baphomett

Jack11803 said:

Should still let you free, but only obsession can use it, everyone else can get screwed. (Its OPness is supposed to be a counter to being tunneled and mori’d for dying light etc; why does everyone get it!?)

Totally agree here.  Other survivors running it would simply have wasted a perk slot for the round.  They even have a chance on lobby to ask if anyone else is running DS and switch if needed.

I'm a surv main, I guess (I play about 2:1 surv vs killer) and I'd be fine with this from both perspectives.

Judgement

I actually agree.
Decisive Strike can temporarily counter Dying Light and a few other Obsession perks, as well as even non-obsession perks, by denying a hook.
What BHVR are going to do is prevent the Obsession with Decisive Strike from being completely safe from one hook to buy more time for the rest of their team to keep 100% action speed for a while (assuming Dying Light).
Yes, the Obsession and the Obsession only, should be able to instantly escape. Everyone else either cannot use the perk at all, or can only stun.

HP150

@Luigifan64 said:
Every licensed survivor and killer has had perks that line up with their movie series and they make sense with their characters

Oh really? You do know that Franklin's Demise was based on this scene, right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTlDmehDmsQ

Leatherface chainsaw's Franklin, causing him to drop his flashlight as he dies (see: the perk icon and name). This perk was specifically nerfed post-release to not allow it to activate on chainsaw hits. Why you would drop a flashlight from a hammer hit as opposed to being eviscerated by a chainsaw, I have no idea.

If you want to complain about lack of faithfulness to source material then let's start with all the killer nerfs that survivors were mum about, k (looking at you, Freddy)?

Someissues

I would have been fine with the old DS if they only made it work for the obsession, but not everyone else, 4 ppl running DS is extremely overpowered

CoolAKn

@Someissues said:
I would have been fine with the old DS if they only made it work for the obsession, but not everyone else, 4 ppl running DS is extremely overpowered

Yeah, the obsession perks are fine, as long as you are the obsession. IMO, the perks should have a different effect when you are not the obsession, rather than the same effect, but to a lesser extent. I understand that the perks are meant to make being the obsession more worth while, but in the case of DS, only the obsession should have it work as advertised. Non-obsessions should have it changed to a one-time alternate stun method (like dropping a pallet while the killer is holding a survivor).

BLUE_APE

FINALLY SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME!!
I feel the exact same way, I have suggested this idea before.

BLUE_APE

@yeet said:
DS should never have been put in the game in the first place

Well then the halloween DLC shouldn't exist because I wouldn't be playing this game.
I honestly played this game because of Laurie (Not the perk to be honest)
It needs a fair nerf is all, but knowing a lot of other people, they probably still going to complain.

yeet

@BLUE_APE said:

@yeet said:
DS should never have been put in the game in the first place

Well then the halloween DLC shouldn't exist because I wouldn't be playing this game.
I honestly played this game because of Laurie (Not the perk to be honest)
It needs a fair nerf is all, but knowing a lot of other people, they probably still going to complain.

the nerf it is getting is a fair nerf, you should not get off the killers shoulder for free.

Luigifan64

HP150 said:

@Luigifan64 said:
Every licensed survivor and killer has had perks that line up with their movie series and they make sense with their characters

Oh really? You do know that Franklin's Demise was based on this scene, right:

Leatherface chainsaw's Franklin, causing him to drop his flashlight as he dies (see: the perk icon and name). This perk was specifically nerfed post-release to not allow it to activate on chainsaw hits. Why you would drop a flashlight from a hammer hit as opposed to being eviscerated by a chainsaw, I have no idea.

If you want to complain about lack of faithfulness to source material then let's start with all the killer nerfs that survivors were mum about, k (looking at you, Freddy)?

I know that it’s based on the scene and it still makes sense and is accurate, Franklin gets injured (well he get killed but eh) and drops the item. It’s bending the source material to be accurate yet still decent from a gameplay perspective. I also know that it used to come from the abilities, but I think they felt the perk needed to be a type of trade off; do I hit the survivor to make them lose an item, or do I instadown them and have them keep that item. Also, bringing Freddy up is currently being addressed and my ideas mostly line up with what the devs want. Plus that Freddy post would be longer than this one, so eh, I didn’t feel like writing it. I also did say that the Nightmare DLC wasn’t all that accurate because of its rushed state.

Bravo0413

If it was actually only the obsession can use it and the rest of the survivors get a wasted perk slot then I could agree with this because it is an OP AF perk and deserves that sort of treatment.. it would be an actual high risk high reward sort of thing........... but that doesn't mean I won't be happy when the intended nerf comes into play... and lets be honest if the devs would only make the killers strong enough to handle 4DS we wouldn't be in this situation but instead of doing that we get killers like freddy and wraith.... spirit is still up in the air but shes tilting toward the weak side 

DarkWo1f997

HP150 said:

@Luigifan64 said:
Every licensed survivor and killer has had perks that line up with their movie series and they make sense with their characters

Oh really? You do know that Franklin's Demise was based on this scene, right:

Leatherface chainsaw's Franklin, causing him to drop his flashlight as he dies (see: the perk icon and name). This perk was specifically nerfed post-release to not allow it to activate on chainsaw hits. Why you would drop a flashlight from a hammer hit as opposed to being eviscerated by a chainsaw, I have no idea.

If you want to complain about lack of faithfulness to source material then let's start with all the killer nerfs that survivors were mum about, k (looking at you, Freddy)?

Yeah. Survivors only complain because being on the hook and pressing a button to struggle seems very, very boring. Sure it’s your fault for getting caught but there’s going to be a lot of times where you just get unlucky, or a teammate makes a very questionably unsafe save. As a killer one trick I can only be perceptive about this. But yet again the stress of playing killer isn’t exactly 100% enjoyable either.  

Sure you get used to it after a while but it still feels a little weird that you can feel really powerless quite often in a lot of situations. This is probably due to the killer not really having any options for countering loops in ways that compliment the flow of gameplay, it’s just Benny hill music and two idiots running around a pallet like they are childhood friends. 

Pig seems to be the only one besides huntress and hag (I could be wrong please don’t kill me) who can actively shut down loops. Pig’s ambush ability I’ve found is really good for countering shack loopers. So much so that I’m actually comfortable now following a survivor to a killer shack.  

But I digress, while I personally have learned to deal with the hardships of the killer and learn to bait and exploit altruism, it’s the killer’s very low population that’s concerning to me. I’m not sure if this game is dying or coming back to life or just staying somewhere in the middle. 

I’ve only been playing since mid-August so there’s a lot I’m unsure of regarding the player base. Survivors seem to be the unhappy type though. In a way I understand, I’ve played survivor about 20 times now and realized that it’s really frustrating and demoralizing when you’re unhooked and a killer prioritizes you because he was nearby and you are the easy hit. 

On the other hand, as a killer, you feel immense pressure to make sure you down that survivor because you have to do what you can to throw a wrench in their game plan. Well that’s just me, if I have 4 gens left I always chase the savior and give that other survivor a chance to recover. If I’m on one gen though, I’ll simply down and re-hook that survivor who was saved if I’m able to intercept them. 

Thats kind of the problem, everything is on a by-occurrence bases and not a consistent one.  This is the down side of a very simple premise in a game, people figure out ways to play in a way that provides an advantage that isn’t meant to be when the game is played by the book by both sides. Maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about because like I said I’m still new to the game.  I am currently a rank 1 so I have seen the low and high level play difference and they do indeed feel like two completely different games. 


At first I agreed with a lot of the loop changes and what not but now I’m starting to wonder if at that time I just wasn’t as experienced and maybe the game is more balanced than I thought. Truly puzzling for me. 

CoolAKn

@Bravo0413 said:
If it was actually only the obsession can use it and the rest of the survivors get a wasted perk slot then I could agree with this because it is an OP AF perk and deserves that sort of treatment.. it would be an actual high risk high reward sort of thing........... but that doesn't mean I won't be happy when the intended nerf comes into play... and lets be honest if the devs would only make the killers strong enough to handle 4DS we wouldn't be in this situation but instead of doing that we get killers like freddy and wraith.... spirit is still up in the air but shes tilting toward the weak side 

I agree where only the obsession should use it as advertised, but I disagree where the non-obsessions would have a wasted perk slot. I think the perk just needs to work very differently based on obsession status.

The skill check hop-off-the-shoulder mechanic would only work with the obsession. For non-obsessions, allow a one-time longer than normal pallet stun while the killer is carrying someone (easy enough to counter, just don't walk through pallets unless you have to). For obsessions, this perk would remain a self-help perk. For non-obsessions, this perk would turn into a rescue perk. For non-obsessions, reduce the stun duration by 2 seconds (giving the obsession the primary benefit), so:

(normal stun time - killer stun resistance) + 1/1.5/2 seconds

Luigifan64

DarkWo1f997 said:

HP150 said:

@Luigifan64 said:
Every licensed survivor and killer has had perks that line up with their movie series and they make sense with their characters

Oh really? You do know that Franklin's Demise was based on this scene, right:

Leatherface chainsaw's Franklin, causing him to drop his flashlight as he dies (see: the perk icon and name). This perk was specifically nerfed post-release to not allow it to activate on chainsaw hits. Why you would drop a flashlight from a hammer hit as opposed to being eviscerated by a chainsaw, I have no idea.

If you want to complain about lack of faithfulness to source material then let's start with all the killer nerfs that survivors were mum about, k (looking at you, Freddy)?

Yeah. Survivors only complain because being on the hook and pressing a button to struggle seems very, very boring. Sure it’s your fault for getting caught but there’s going to be a lot of times where you just get unlucky, or a teammate makes a very questionably unsafe save. As a killer one trick I can only be perceptive about this. But yet again the stress of playing killer isn’t exactly 100% enjoyable either.  

Sure you get used to it after a while but it still feels a little weird that you can feel really powerless quite often in a lot of situations. This is probably due to the killer not really having any options for countering loops in ways that compliment the flow of gameplay, it’s just Benny hill music and two idiots running around a pallet like they are childhood friends. 

Pig seems to be the only one besides huntress and hag (I could be wrong please don’t kill me) who can actively shut down loops. Pig’s ambush ability I’ve found is really good for countering shack loopers. So much so that I’m actually comfortable now following a survivor to a killer shack.  

But I digress, while I personally have learned to deal with the hardships of the killer and learn to bait and exploit altruism, it’s the killer’s very low population that’s concerning to me. I’m not sure if this game is dying or coming back to life or just staying somewhere in the middle. 

I’ve only been playing since mid-August so there’s a lot I’m unsure of regarding the player base. Survivors seem to be the unhappy type though. In a way I understand, I’ve played survivor about 20 times now and realized that it’s really frustrating and demoralizing when you’re unhooked and a killer prioritizes you because he was nearby and you are the easy hit. 

On the other hand, as a killer, you feel immense pressure to make sure you down that survivor because you have to do what you can to throw a wrench in their game plan. Well that’s just me, if I have 4 gens left I always chase the savior and give that other survivor a chance to recover. If I’m on one gen though, I’ll simply down and re-hook that survivor who was saved if I’m able to intercept them. 

Thats kind of the problem, everything is on a by-occurrence bases and not a consistent one.  This is the down side of a very simple premise in a game, people figure out ways to play in a way that provides an advantage that isn’t meant to be when the game is played by the book by both sides. Maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about because like I said I’m still new to the game.  I am currently a rank 1 so I have seen the low and high level play difference and they do indeed feel like two completely different games. 


At first I agreed with a lot of the loop changes and what not but now I’m starting to wonder if at that time I just wasn’t as experienced and maybe the game is more balanced than I thought. Truly puzzling for me. 

So what’s you’re point here? You’re responding to a question about accuracy, but you’re talking about how both sides have points where it sucks to play them. So, what’s your agreement? Not once did the person you’re resoponding to mention the looping meta. Not to say you points aren’t valid, they just seem like they don’t belong here; or that they’re misplaced.

DarkWo1f997

Luigifan64 said:

DarkWo1f997 said:

HP150 said:

@Luigifan64 said:
Every licensed survivor and killer has had perks that line up with their movie series and they make sense with their characters

Oh really? You do know that Franklin's Demise was based on this scene, right:

Leatherface chainsaw's Franklin, causing him to drop his flashlight as he dies (see: the perk icon and name). This perk was specifically nerfed post-release to not allow it to activate on chainsaw hits. Why you would drop a flashlight from a hammer hit as opposed to being eviscerated by a chainsaw, I have no idea.

If you want to complain about lack of faithfulness to source material then let's start with all the killer nerfs that survivors were mum about, k (looking at you, Freddy)?

Yeah. Survivors only complain because being on the hook and pressing a button to struggle seems very, very boring. Sure it’s your fault for getting caught but there’s going to be a lot of times where you just get unlucky, or a teammate makes a very questionably unsafe save. As a killer one trick I can only be perceptive about this. But yet again the stress of playing killer isn’t exactly 100% enjoyable either.  

Sure you get used to it after a while but it still feels a little weird that you can feel really powerless quite often in a lot of situations. This is probably due to the killer not really having any options for countering loops in ways that compliment the flow of gameplay, it’s just Benny hill music and two idiots running around a pallet like they are childhood friends. 

Pig seems to be the only one besides huntress and hag (I could be wrong please don’t kill me) who can actively shut down loops. Pig’s ambush ability I’ve found is really good for countering shack loopers. So much so that I’m actually comfortable now following a survivor to a killer shack.  

But I digress, while I personally have learned to deal with the hardships of the killer and learn to bait and exploit altruism, it’s the killer’s very low population that’s concerning to me. I’m not sure if this game is dying or coming back to life or just staying somewhere in the middle. 

I’ve only been playing since mid-August so there’s a lot I’m unsure of regarding the player base. Survivors seem to be the unhappy type though. In a way I understand, I’ve played survivor about 20 times now and realized that it’s really frustrating and demoralizing when you’re unhooked and a killer prioritizes you because he was nearby and you are the easy hit. 

On the other hand, as a killer, you feel immense pressure to make sure you down that survivor because you have to do what you can to throw a wrench in their game plan. Well that’s just me, if I have 4 gens left I always chase the savior and give that other survivor a chance to recover. If I’m on one gen though, I’ll simply down and re-hook that survivor who was saved if I’m able to intercept them. 

Thats kind of the problem, everything is on a by-occurrence bases and not a consistent one.  This is the down side of a very simple premise in a game, people figure out ways to play in a way that provides an advantage that isn’t meant to be when the game is played by the book by both sides. Maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about because like I said I’m still new to the game.  I am currently a rank 1 so I have seen the low and high level play difference and they do indeed feel like two completely different games. 


At first I agreed with a lot of the loop changes and what not but now I’m starting to wonder if at that time I just wasn’t as experienced and maybe the game is more balanced than I thought. Truly puzzling for me. 

So what’s you’re point here? You’re responding to a question about accuracy, but you’re talking about how both sides have points where it sucks to play them. So, what’s your agreement? Not once did the person you’re resoponding to mention the looping meta. Not to say you points aren’t valid, they just seem like they don’t belong here; or that they’re misplaced.

Well I hadn’t had slept for 24 hours when writing that so I’m sure that played a very large factor in trailing off. What I was originally trying to get at before my auto pilot rant took over was if it’s accuracy you want, a game where a hammer strike to the shoulder blade causing several pints of blood to be lost in a matter of minutes, and a boogeyman tentacle monster that sounds like an orca with the ability to make people immortal and create its own realm, is probably being used to throw any and all accuracy out the window in favor of “Balance.” I put ‘balance’ in quotation marks to imply that I am
not 100% in agreement with the way it’s handled but I digress. 

I do not have the cannibal, and didn’t know that Franklin’s Demise was completely ignored when using the saw. I’m not sure why that is, so I see where you are coming from, but I don’t really think the developers will change their mind on that. 

Luigifan64

Well I hadn’t had slept for 24 hours when writing that so I’m sure that played a very large factor in trailing off. What I was originally trying to get at before my auto pilot rant took over was if it’s accuracy you want, a game where a hammer strike to the shoulder blade causing several pints of blood to be lost in a matter of minutes, and a boogeyman tentacle monster that sounds like an orca with the ability to make people immortal and create its own realm, is probably being used to throw any and all accuracy out the window in favor of “Balance.” I put ‘balance’ in quotation marks to imply that I am

not 100% in agreement with the way it’s handled but I digress. 

I do not have the cannibal, and didn’t know that Franklin’s Demise was completely ignored when using the saw. I’m not sure why that is, so I see where you are coming from, but I don’t really think the developers will change their mind on that. 

Ok that makes sense, I get where you’re coming from. I wish that every licensed killer/survivor perks made more sense with their source material because it’s supposed to feel like you’re actually playing them in a movie.