Gen speeds are fine
Comments
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A fair few people would say Moris and irlhead is not balance. While the match in question, did not have any of these add ons or offering in play. Simply a trapper bag and one that make setting his traps down faster. Nothing that would be akin to a one shot hatch or mori. Otz had to get the normal three hooks to kill off a survivor, survivors could still free themselves from a trap or get help from someone else and escape it before the trapper could get to them. Ozt still has to use his power the way any other trapper would. The bag and other add on, simply made setting up his traps easier. Setting up his traps like any other Trapper would. They didn't remove a hook state from a survivor or grant him range one shot attacks. So how does a mori, which was not used in this match, matter at all?
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I was waiting for someone to use this video as an argument here.
A few bnp and 4 working on gens, yeah it happened, it sucks but how often does it happen in the grand scheme of this honestly? It doesn't make sense to 'balance' something around one extreme and rare instance. They've already addressed the gen issue a fair bit and adjusting speed specifically any more would make the survivor objective even more tedious and boring than it already is, especially towards endgame when there's so much more pressure with limited gens for killer to patrol and survivors usually being killed off.
If things were balanced around this sort of situation then I suppose we can start a thread calling for plague to be nerfed and use otz's recent game as a reference where he secured a 4k in 2 minutes and 15 seconds
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Depip squad has and continues to show you can go gens so fast in this game, killer has zero chance against it. And that is with people on different gens, purposefully not stacking on one gen.
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Yet he still got a 4k out of it. You´re just proving my point. I don´t get how so many people are complaining about something that pretty much never happens. Yes if it happens it is op, that is why it´s a ultra rare addon, same as the irihead and other ultra rare addons some killers have.
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I've put in a lot of hours on both sides but admittedly am a killer main and really only ever play with or against very smart survivors or swfs, so take that as you will.
Gen speeds are only fine for survivors who don't know how to be chased, the kind of survivors who know how to do everything BUT run a proper loop. But when you play with or against a swf or even random survivors the advantage is entirely on the survivor's side.
Think about logically for a second and not with this salty pissed off energy that we all have playing DbD. Your average good killer vs an average good survivor in a chase, and no great streamers don't count those are exceptions 90% of players aren't that good, the survivor can run a killer especially at the start for a good 20-30 seconds at least. Might not seem like a lot but killers obviously can only chase ONE at a time, which means unless the other survivors have brain damage they are working on gens. And in that time frame can pop at least two gens if they work together, or even solo. Also no hooks do not slow things down, if you camp your and idiot and will lose, and if you go check gens that guys gets off, which is fine, but then you have three survivors again working on gens.
I don't think gen speeds need a massive nerf but something needs to be done IMO.
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Otz controlled the game end to end. If you have a problem with gen speeds, GIT GUD
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So your point is, it ultra rare and so it's ok to be overpowered?
Ghostface ultra rare add on "ghostface caught on tape" boosts lean stalk speed but at the cost of making non lean stalk speed slower. Or to give numbers. -1 second for lend stalk speed and plus 0.75 seconds for non lean stalk speed. Which can backfire and make it harder for ghostface to 99% someone or triggering the expose effect, when you didn't want it to go off. That and it does have a downside, of negatively effecting ghostface when not leaning while stalking. Ghostface would be better off using one of the recovery add ons, like chewed pen or address book. Ghostface best add ons, are green and below in terms of rarity. Now ghostface other ultra rare add on, is "outdoor security camera", when ever you down a expose aka marked survivor, you get a bbq effect of seeing survivors, who are not in your terror radius for 4 seconds. Which is ok but again the issue is, you would have to give up a recovery add on, to take one of these ultra rares. Which in the case of the camera, you could just run bbq to get the same effect and just take a recovery add on. Both of these ultra rare add ons for ghostface, have a negative downside to them or makes the ghostface have to work to earn the effect. Why are the recovery adds on the best for ghostface? It allows him to us his power more often, be it for sneaking around and getting in close for a stab or simply to stalk and mark survivors with his ability, for a one hit down.
Oni ultra rare add on of iridescent family chest, when using your power and missing with a demon strike, all survivors with in 12 metres of you scream. Which is bloody awful, for if you are using your power as Oni, odds are, the survivor is already right next to you. Two perks that are rather common on Oni, are monitor and abuse and Fright. Which Monitor makes it easier for Oni to get that first hit, thanks to reduce terror radius. While helping to find survivors with Fright, when he downs someone, thanks to a boosted terror radius while in a chase. Making Oni ultra rare add on pointless, when you can take two perks that will not only work better but benefit the Oni more than this ultra rare add on. Which the bloody glove, Oni other ultra rare add on the bloody glove, you have to run a very certain build to make good use of it. The all seeing Oni build. Otherwise, you have to not use your power to make use of this add on, since blood orbs fade away while Oni is demon mode, the blood orbs only return after Oni comes out of his power. Which Oni power grants him speed and one hit downs. Which is why the best add on for a normal Oni build, are the Topknot, which allows a oni to use demon dash faster and the add ons that allow him to stay in bloody fury longer, both of which are not ultra rare add ons. So your whole point it's a ultra rare add on, so it broken or must be overpowered and that fine. Falls apart the minute we look at other killers ultra rare add ons, that are not huntress. I'm sorry but not all ultra rare are made equal as you seem to think they are.
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I'm sorry but saying git gud to someone that is not game journalist does not help at all. If peopel are legit having issues as killer. How does saying git gud help at all? If the issue is they need to learn to play better. How is merely saying git gud and offering no helpful advice at all, useful at all? Since the only thing git gud would do, is just make someone react out of emotion, due to being told to f off, by simply using different wording. If the issue is people need to learn to get better, than spreading knowledge and common tips and advice, would be more useful and helpful to bring people together and lead to more honest talks about balance, rather than saying git gud.
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That
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Killers complaining about a pink add on that was completely destroyed by nerfs lol. How many ridiculous pink add ons and moris and S tiers do killers still have? I really wish I preferred playing killer bc winning is far easier and you have far more points to get boosted add ons and offerings.
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Imo gens aren't the problem, it's the lack of objectives survivors have!
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100%
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For killers the game is balanced when they can get a 4k without skill. Means, they want that survs are as weak as possible that they even lose as a good 4 player swf against a player that isn't good in any way. If a killer can't get a 4k dbd is unbalanced. Players that are on rank 1 that shouldn't be there are playing against players that have skill and because of that they're losing and going to cry on the forum. I'm a Legion main im rank 1 and most of my games are 4ks with 32k points. Because most of the players on rank 1 are on rank 1 because of the bad new rank reset. Also when I'm playing survs I'm getting mates that have like 20% on dbd and they're still rank 1-6 that's stupid. But I didn't want to talk about that I just think it's ridiculous that the community of dead by daylight is so broken. Killers want that survs are nerfed to dead because most of the killer mains are trash players. Many surv players are trash, I know games where I get 1 kill because they're rushing the gens but just because I don't get a 4k 1 time I'm not going to the Forum and start crying about how "OP" survs are just because I got players that Rush gens 1 time or 2 times lmao dbd is a good game with a toxic annoying community that thinks the other side is too op if they lose. I love DbD but that toxic community is destroying my game experience. Because the devs are listening to the killer Mains because there are stupid players like True talent that are talking ######### and the killer mains are copying his words because he is the "mighty true talent" and all survs are op. Ridiculous. Crying about the ds but don't want to stop tunneling, crying about gens but start camping when a surv is good in a chase. Survs getting a good perk again after 2 YEARS PLZ NERF BHVR THIS IS OP like every surv that isn't bullshit is op until it's getting nerfed to the ground. But something like noed isn't strong because YoU cAn DeStRoY jUsT aLl ThE tOtEmS and RuIn Is DeStRoYeD but many players are using the "destroyed perk". Weird but yea survs are op
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So..
(1) 4 SWF
(2) 3 BNP Addons
(3) 2 DS Used
(4) Unbreakable and BT Used
(5) 2 Dead hards and 1 Sprint burst
(6) Map Offering
and a Mid-Tier Killer with 2 yellow addons had 4k with 3 gens left... hmmmm...
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I would like to say thank you to everyone in this thread who is interested in a open and honest debate, rather than playing into the us vs them mind set. So it's refreshing to see some people trying to take the topic serious and debate if it a issue or not, rather than just labeling anyone who has ever touched or played killer as some whiny crybaby [like some seem to be doing] or labeling them all as some evil out group that is wrong simply due to being the out group, without using logic and reason to explain why a certain thing is right or wrong.
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I think Otz showed that if you get genrushed early, you need to exert control and play a tad scummy. How did he do that? From what I saw, he moved traps into position and hovered around the hooks. Basically, he was not going to give these people easy hooks and unhooks. They were forced to keep taking hits. If they don't heal or have iron will, it makes them easy targets on rotation. It was rinse and repeat after that.
Secondary note: Also, even though these people hit gens quick, they were caught out time and again. The Feng running in a straight line through the corn. Why would you ever do that unless you are giving your team time to clear hooks? Then there was Bill, you should be looking for traps around vault points and pallets. These are bread and butter for trapper.
TLDR: If you are getting gen rushed as trapper, patrol hooks / trap the vault points and pallets, and catch non loopers doing stupid #########.
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Can't you clearly see survivors are too OP, NERF.
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Fair enough.
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As Otz himself points out: One gen getting done isn't the end of the world. If killers would stop acting like it was, then they'd probably have a better time. The game's not over until the survivors are either dead, or out the exit gate or hatch.
Here's why this isn't unbalanced:
The survivors sacrificed efficiency to get ONE gen done really fast. They used their BNP's to get a gen done in roughly 17 seconds. And yeah, that sounds crazy fast. And it is. But it's also one generator out of five. The first gen is the easiest to complete. If they save their BNP's until later in the game, they risk being killed before it gets down to 1 generator. After that one gen is done, they aren't able to complete other gens at the same rate, or similar rates. They've used up their BNP.
Yes, Otz is crazy good at the game. I wouldn't want to take anything away from him. But if you're a red rank PC killer you could probably get a 3K-4K in the same scenario as long as you don't give up and act like you're defeated because one gen popped really fast. Not as fast as Otz, but you'd still probably get there.
That's not to say there don't need to be some tweaks to gen speeds. But this video doesn't illustrate the problem with them. It's not a problem when one gen pops REALLY FAST. It's when FOUR gens pop really fast because the killer can't exert pressure on enough survivors at the same time due to a bad start. But -- rather than making gen times longer, devs are looking into a "Trial Warmup" which could help killers get off to a better start, and therefore make gen times more bearable and allow killers to have more natural early game pressure, which is precisely what's needed.
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If you know certain maps you know certain survivor spawn locations. If you have Corrupt, generally you assume they are going to spawn nearby where the blocked gens are. As for survivors spawning together, almost every single time I play survivor I spawn next to one if not my whole team, and that's also generally a good thing for a killer too.
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Lesson learned
you have to be a top tier streaming God just to win a match as killer
Everyone else would have been dust
Killer really needs to spawn in before survivors do to set up and he needs to spawn in the center so gens aren't popping before you do a stride.
Killer perks should have more slowdown synergy. Instead of extra drawbacks
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Which yeah gens, are the only real thing survivors need to do. Totems they don't really need to do, unless the killer is running a hex perk. That and there is the ever raging debate if cleansing totems is a waste of time or not. Since there are some matches, where cleansing totems will just be for points and no other reason. Since the killer is not running any hex perks. So yeah, depending on your point of view on totems. Gens might be the only thing survivors truly need to focus on. So if there is a issue with the speed of how quickly survivors get their objectives done, in the interest of debate, we will say there is for now.
Well it seems like the case of having one and only one objective might be the thing. That or well another possible factor might be how rng things can be. Like how you can play on the same map but get massively different gen spawns, one might have them all spread out and in the next match, they might all be close and bundle together. That or how sometimes the fun bus, has the side window open and other times it doesn't. Which can make a loop stronger or weaker, depending on if a window is open or not. Since sometimes rng, can favor one side or the other.
Well said good sir, well said.
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I've seen better killers make better choices. Sometimes it's a bad thing when you keep talking and preemptively set traps (for the future) while you knew fully well 4 toolboxes were in play. Hence why not every person who plays trapper sets traps right at the beginning of the match. He is not Hag.
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now imagine if he didn't use Corrupt Intervention...
as @Lumionesty stated... they threw everything into one gen (map offering, Shroud of Binding, 3 BNP's)
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I love how everyone complains because 4 people brought toolboxes with the best add ons and finished one gen really fast. Toolboxes are burned up and they get crushed by a Trapper. Toolboxes are useless now and people still complain, lol.
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Yeah gen speeds are fine only issue I saw was they forgot to rework bnp when they made toolboxes a passive bnp
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Idk why people are being smart asses to the OP, he never said the killer was bad or that the survivors were any good (they were obvious trash.) No he said GEN SPEED is dumb, because it really is. Even a mediocre team who have no business winning can still all escape if they just focus on gens, that is the OP's point so why don't yall turn down the sarcasm.
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Simply saying something is bad isn't enough to prove a case.
Same argument could be said about "This killer is OP because they can do this"... even tho they were obviously using a strong build or a strong add on (Iridescent) or Moris. No one likes them, but you adapt to them.
Is that being sarcastic?
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I feel like gen times are really fine, especially after the "EGC but at the start" is implemented, which the devs were talking about.
Some more map reworks are also more or less confirmed and I feel like the game is mostly in a good state, although there is always room for improvement.
They really just have to buff some of the weaker killers and improve the solo player experience (even though I personally don't really have too many problems with going in solo and escaping).
There are obviously some Add-ons and items that need to be looked at, like moris, keys and iridescent hatchets, but I think that will happen soon enough.
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Tbh that could of easily been avoided by just walking over there and making them scatter. Kick it, and then get a few hits. You gotta apply pressure and placing all your traps takes time.
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They consumed 4 toolboxes and used a perk and took 68 seconds worth of time (17*4) to complete a single gen in a way that they can't do to the remaining 4 gens even if they were uninterrupted.
When you stack several effects towards a singular instant of power, it BETTER be powerful.
It's like saying heal speeds are too fast because someone with NOLB, We'll make it Botany and a medkit could heal a Survivor with leader in only a few seconds.
Sure if they could just do that whenever it would be a problem, but they can't, not even close. So it's fine. Like how slow would it need to be to be balanced?
18 seconds? 19? 20?
At 20 seconds they'd be spending 80 seconds worth of time. Meaning that 4 Survivors working on seperate gens with nothing would be making progress as fast as the Survivors working together and stacking several gen speed increases.
That's just not right.
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Someone who gets it.
This is the same thing as those people who complain about Freddy's 'Forever Freddy' build.
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As soon as this happened I knew 1000% someone would start a thread. They can’t finish EVERY GEN in 17 seconds, they blow their load and then look... Th ya head start and they still get wiped out.
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Thank you good sir for taking the high road and explaining your reasoning in a civil and logical way. For it is nice and refreshing to see someone trying to explain their reasoning, rather than insulting others, using sarcasm or promoting a in group out group mind set by labeling all of x player base to be y.
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Honestly as someone who plays both killers and survivors on PC and console, it isn't broken. It takes a while to get a BNP usually on bloodwebs, do you also complain about Mori's? The one hook now you're dead ones? They WASTED 3 BNPs on ONE generator at the start they no longer have it, toolboxes have been nerfed to hell and back. Do you want them to just take them out of the game completely? As a killer knowing all 3 wasted their toolbox AND BNP on one generator I'd be elated knowing I really don't have to worry about it anymore, they have nothing else for gen pressure further on it's done. He also has a general idea on where they all are now to chase them down, he got a 4k. It's insane how much killers complain on the forums it's all about needing to nerf survivors. They're already bringing in pyramid Head who pretty much destroys deliverance which in itself inflicts broken for a full on minute so you're screeching in pain for a full minute in the match he also pretty much destroys decisive strike because he can just focus on one curse and that's it, it also doesn't count as an unhook if people are trying to do an archive challenge so..? What else do you guys honestly need? They wasted 3 BNPs an ULTRA RARE add on that isn't on every single bloodweb I've had it a handful on times on one character that I prestiged 3 times. You'll argue that mori's are very fair but then come screaming because an SWF that got bodied wasted 3 BNPs on one generator. Ok cool.
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Yeah i play killer and survivor too. Idc what platforms you play on. Youre not going to convince me that 17 seconds is ok. Ever. And yes, i directly compared this to first hook tunnel mori in this very thread. Whats insane is that anyone would ever try and justify this dumb #########
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Bro I barely play killer and it goes by fast like that at rank 14 and I'll still get two or 33 kills so quit complaining it matters about pressure and how well you play even if they split amd you apply pressure and about hatch thats your fault bc you have the choice to slug both of them before you hook one or hook the one with the key amd look for hatch before he dies its based on how you play quit crying about a game
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Bro, i play killer to at rank 1 and have above a 3k average. Your rank 14 prowess doesnt impress me and im well aware of what pressure is and how to apply it. When something is broken its broken. In no world should a gen finish in 17 seconds. Theres no argument youre going to make thats going to make that ok. Stop trying.
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Again, it was ONE GEN. They all teamed up on it and blew BNPs... and it obviously isn’t that broken because they still got stomped.
Honestly I would rather have survivors play toolbox and BNP agajnst me instead of jacked up medkits or even instaheals. Heck I would rather have survivors use their toolbox to fix gens rather than strategically sabo hooks.
The only benefit of blowing your load on 1-2 gens early is the psychological effect it has on some killers, making them feel defeated before the game has even begun. I feel like you’re the type of person that strategy works on.
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Again. I dont care that it was one gen. They completed 20% of their objectives in 17 secs. Thats stupid broken. Is it cool if a killer kills a survivor in 25 seconds? Cause these 2 things are extremely similar. You guys can keep repeating yourself if you want to, theres no intelligent argument to it being ok that they did a gen in 17 secs.
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You realize had they split up they would have completed 4 different gens by over 20% in that same time frame? You have stated you won’t be convinced otherwise so no point explaining it more, good luck in life quitting and whining when something starts off bad because it’s unfair.
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Who quit and is whining? Youre talking to the wrong one dude 😂 and yeah im fully aware this could have been much worse if they had split up, that doesnt refute tge fact that being able to do 1 gen in 17 secs is broken af. Pointing out a flaw in tge game isnt whining. Only immature people think that way. Stop it.
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In no world is 17 seconds balanced for finishing a gen and i can't believe people are defending it. Otz had corrupted on which is supposed to help slow down early game gen progression and they still did it in 17 seconds. Also people saying to apply pressure unironically it was the first 17 seconds as a killer he has to FIND THE SURVIVORS first.
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These are all salient points. But that's the thing: survivor mains like winning so they're going to say whatever it takes to keep the gravy train going. Whining survs is why Legion was nerfed into the dirt and now universally ranked among the weakest/least fun killers. Meanwhile devs pretend there aren't dedicated killers and survivors at all (I played killer and only played survivor to boost my self esteem back up after going on droughts after my peeps left the game).
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17 seconds is only 3 seconds faster than normal efficiency. All of their stacked speedups and ideal conditions and all they get out of it is 3 measly seconds.
They could have instead ran more second chance perks and ran flashlights and medkits for extra safety in a chase. But instead they decided to group up and use toolboxes and gen repair perks. All of that and it's only saving, 3 seconds. That's an effective 12 second time save over 4 Survivors by the way.
You know what is more effective than that? Resilience on a single Survivor. Specifically the perk saves 33 seconds over 5 gens. That's massive compared to just 12 seconds on a single gen.
Plus remember, no mechanic is inherently overpowered, it's all relative. For example, while mori's are OP, Devour Hope which eventually uses the same mechanic is not.
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lol i had to look up what salient was. i thought you were talking ######### at first.
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Wait a second, I smell some hypocrisy here. I thought it shouldn't matter how strong and unbalanced something is unless it's unable to be countered. Otzdarva showed that even though they did bring BNP, he's still able to overcome it and win. I'm pretty sure Otz was more annoyed at eating two DSes in a row rather than the 3 BNP.
So what if the average killer is unable to take on 3 BNP's? You can say that the average survivor would be unable to counter moris, noed, iri hatchets, stridor spirit, crack billy, spam shock doctor, and forever Freddy. However, since they are all "counterable", they still remain in the game because good survivors can overcome them.
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Well i agree they went about this stupidly, i think everyones agreed on that.
I didnt say it was op, i said ######### is broken.
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As in it's a non-balance issue?
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Explain to me whats balanced about being able to complete 20% of your objective in 17 seconds.
And Ill again point out, this is pretty close to a killer killing a survivor in 25 to 30 seconds, so thats bslanced to right? No issue there? I dont even know if its possible for a killer to do that. Theyd have to spawn directly next to 2 potatos. Hook one, he gets pulled off then use a mori. Bet that it would still take longer than 30.
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