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New MMR will send fake red ranks back to R15
I play on Xbox and the red rank randoms I get sometimes are just complete crap, Won’t even attempt to loop shack or strong places like cow tree and will instantly throw the pallet while I uninjured. Not to mention half of the crap red ranks still run self-care, Urban evasion, premonition and no borrowed time. I could go a lot further on what these randoms do to piss off other people that are experienced but I don’t feel like typing a book. Please Devs, make this MMR new ranking system come in faster.
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New MMR wont even have "red ranks" anymore. Nobody will see an actual rank. If all goes well, the only thing youll notice is the people your playing with and against should be similarly skilled as you, but you wont know how far away from top tier or bottom tier you are.
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You're the only person that will see your rank unless you tell it to everyone.
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The new MMR will literally do nothing of note.
Why? Cause it's impossible for an AI algorithm to measure skill in Dead by Daylight. For a variety of reasons.
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And this is the problem I have with it. I want to see how well I did compared to the others in a match and how potato/good I am in total. In Deathgarden (another game of BHVR) they added a little leaderboard which I really liked. You could see your positioning and (in %) how good you were in total.
And I would like to see the others' score. I want to know If Matchmaking was evil.
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You will know your mmr? Is it for sure?
I don't really want to know my mmr. I expect I will be dissapointed. Also I wouldn't want there achievments to get high mmr, because I remember I was struggling with rank 1 earlier.
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The only thing that is going to change is the rank being removed from the screen.
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I’m sure Scott made a video about it at some point, I cba to write up as to why it won’t work again so tl;dr -
no ranking system will ever work in dbd, but *at least* what we have now is visible
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That depends.
With SWF a true red ranked playing with friends may still be in your lobby If they use the highest rated mmr player.
It may of course take an average of the group but that could have other consequences like in the past of a lower ranked mmr killer being matched with someone way above their level.
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I totally didn’t catch that the current rank system will be invisible? Were was that said?
i know that the MMR score will not be shown but I thought rank will stay as is
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MMR will replace the ranking system.
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What will happen with the achievements then?
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I have no idea.
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The new MMR rank system will be complaint about. No matter how perfect it might actually work.
A lot of less experienced players are unknowing /refuse to acknowledge that they are less experienced players.
So they will end up complaining about their equally less experienced teammates without realising they are right where they should be
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You'll still see everyone's game score that they got in a match. You just won't see their "rank".
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I know ranks will be invisible and just for your ego, but I still want to know how my ranking was compared to others (in that match and global). I'm a bit sceptical of mmr since who defines what skill is and what not? I hope that it will come with those funny Stat pages you find in online FPS. At least then I would know where I'm not so good at compared to others.
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How do you know? Its too early to tell
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This! If anything it is going to mess matchmaking up even more, there’s no way for an algorithm to know a “skillful player,” from a “bad player,.”
It’s been talked about before but if baby takes the killer on a 5 minute chase by camping and dropping literally every pallet on the map the MMR will probably think he’s good. If the next chase is Steve and he goes down because there are no more resources to use it’s going to call him bad?
If Myers fills up his stalk on a teabagging Nea or a Meg who literally never sees him for 20 second and than goes and instadowns Ace does that mean Ace is bad?
Same thing with Plague fountains, if I notice a survivor always cleaning at the slightest infection I will never ever down them til last. But they give me the power to annihilate the rest of the team, is that the teams fault?
The list could go on and on
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It really isn't too early. Unless this new system they're making is stupidly complicated there's absolutely no way to truly define how good a survivor or killer is in DbD. Eg: Survivor A completes the objective as fast as possible, and usually escapes and doesn't run a killer very well, and Survivor B can't do gens much because they're running a killer around for 10 minutes and dying every match. Who's the better player here? It takes half a brain cell to hammer gens and escape, but you have to be good to run a killer for a long time but they won't be ranked as high.
Don't even get me started on killers. You could theoretically win every match and have a really high (or low) MMR and be one of the best players in the world if you ran iri head Huntress, or scalped topknot Oni, or Nurse all the time. But are they actually that good at the game or are they using ridiculously strong loadouts to get easy wins? Killers and survivors will go full-on sweat, and against the strongest things in the game, you're not going to win. It's impossible to win against a 4man with DS and Unbreakable unless you're maybe Nurse with a Mori, but you as a killer would lose MMR for not winning.
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I'm on Xbox too and I get some of the most potato red ranks ever. Killers too.
Last night my friend and I had a game on Game against a Wraith with anti-heal build. These two couldn't last 20 seconds in a chase and threw every pallet on the map. Then the Laurie follows me half the game to heal me through Sloppy and Thana when we needed to do gens.
Can't wait for this MMR to kick in. My only concern is matchmaking times, which are already too long, becoming longer because it has to match based on stricter criteria. I feel like I already play at the highest level, I know players better than me on Xbox but it's not a huge pool and of course they all aren't on at the same time.
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But isnt that MMR is about? Its just overly complicated calculations to determine exactly what you are good at, if they are doing the MMR correctly it should determine that, while you are good at doing gens, you are not good at chases, and vice versa.
Same with add-ons and moris, devs can easily take them into account and substract points for bringing certain add-ons or moris depending on their rarity.
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"New MMR will send fake red ranks back to R15"
Do you have any proof to back your claim? Because that's quite optimistic and looks like you're new here...They want to hide all ranks so people won't be able to back their complains, game is 4 years old and in such long period of time they didn't manage to release good ranking system. Besides all of it most survivors are potatos and having less red ranks would either create rainbow lobbies or make us wait in que a lot longer. Imo this will all work like dedicated servers. At best.
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Most games that use MMR are much simpler to score, your deaths vs how many kills you got.
Also lets just start with one factor, you mentioned it can tell if you’re good at chases what does that mean? I asked about does running a killer for five minutes using up every pallet on the map count as a good chase? Does eating hits for your teammates and even taking a hook state because you know they’re on death hook count as a bad chase? Will it reward selfishness? Also chases are map and killer dependent, I can abuse most Nurses on Hawkins or corn maps but on a really open map they can instantly down me. Stealth killers can usually can an instant hit or even a grab on indoor maps so does that count as a short chase?
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My biggest concern is what this is going to make matches feel like. Right now there are three types of games I get as a r1 killer.
Theres the way to easy what the hell are you guys doing in red rank matches.
There are matches that are super close and i either won or lost by one or two missed plays. Tgese games are fun but a sweatfest.
Then there are the matches where it feels like I couldnt have done anything at all. They were always going to win.
Im pretty sure the goal would ve for all games to feel like that middle one, and in a perfect world with a perfectly balanced game, tgey would be.
Tge problem is we dont live in a perfect world and dbd is not a perfectly balanced game. I think most people agree you take the best killer (that isnt playing nurse) and tge best swf swat team, way more often than not the swf is going to win.
And so what this means is, the majority of games is going to feel like that last one. It doesnt matter what level killer you are your skill level is always going to be 1 or 2 steps behind the team youre matched against because this is true at tge very top (it will cascade backwards).
Even if that isnt true every game is still going to be a sweatfest. Its going to have zero chill. Even though the potatos are to easy, its still a nice break from the other 2 types. I can play around and do things to mess with them i cant usually do. I get to be merciful where i normally cant. Weve seen this with other games, i remember when mmr was introduced into COD and what a friggin sweatfest that became.
Tldr: mmr could turn the game into a sweatfest EVERY GAME.
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No, you'll only know your rank. Rank will also become meaningless and only exist for bragging rights and the PC achievements. Matchmaking will be determined by your hidden MMR.
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eliminate 99% of current players in rank 1? I doubt it
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From what I remember the old Ranking system and Emblems will stay but not be used for matchmaking anymore or be visible to other players. Just for people to have something to work towards each months and probably for the achievements as well.
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It's not too early to tell. It's a fact - there are too many variables, most of which are complete RNG, for ANY AI algorithm, period, to determine if a player in this game is good or not.
Are you a good survivor because you ran the killer for 3 gens? Maybe...but what if you only did that by using every pallet on the map and screwing the rest of your team? Does that make your typical rank 20 "good"? Are you a bad killer because you got Blood Lodge, the most opened map in the game, with Ghostface, a killer that relies on stealth and literally hiding behind walls? No, you're not. Are you a GOOD killer because you used an Iri Head on Huntress? Are you a bad survivor because you went against Forever Freddy on Hawkins Lab? Are you a bad killer cause you had 3 people on the hook during EGC, one had deliverance, borrowed time, and all 3 of them had DS? No. You're not.
The game doesn't know the difference, and there's no way for AI to determine the difference. Any seasoned player in DBD can watch someone with their eyes, killer or survivor, and whether they win or lose, you can more or less tell they are good on the game based on reaction times, ability to juke, ability to mind game etc. The only noteworthy thing an AI can determine is escapes/deaths/sacrifices. In most cases, none of these things have a lot of bearing on how good the player is.
This is a fact. It's not an opinion. "Too early to tell" is nonsense. It's never too early to have experience in the game and know BS when you see it. It's never too early for common sense.
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Can't send people to rank 15 when there won't be a rank 15.
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Honestly, if you really wanna know what I think...story time.
Remember right before the Doctor rework came out a few months ago and the patch notes for that update had leaked? The patch notes for the actual update were 1:1 with the leaked notes, except one thing that was omitted (likely due to backlash, because there was a lot). Under "balance changes", it was listed that they were going to hide ranks on the post-game lobby. Nothing else. That was literally the only change. We all knew what that was about; it was about hiding their spaghetti matchmaking. Another bandaid fix. We all knew it, we all called them out on it, and they backtracked faster Mcote after telling us to go play a different game. They even went as far to say they had "no plans of hiding the ranks".
Fast forward...what...a couple weeks or so? They formally announce their plans to implement an MMR into the matchmaking algorithm. Again, anyone with a brain knew this was never going to work. Along with this announcement, they say they plan to hide the ranks in game, and along with that, matchmaking will be determined by a "hidden skill rating" (MMR) that only the devs/game will see.
I still think, and I know a lot of people still think, they aren't doing #########. They're just removing ranks as a matchmaking factor and tossing everyone into a pool of matchmaking regardless of any other factors. To be honest, that would at least be a lot more genuine that BSing people into thinking it's possible for an MMR in a game like this to be even REMOTELY accurate.
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I really hope it helps. It is so boring to play with people that aren't trying to win / get gens.
My experience as a survivor in red/purp
10% of games = team is great, gens go at a great pace, and I am not sweating hard
15% of games = super close 50 / 50 with the killer (the best games for sure!) I really don't care if I walk out of these. The game was worth it.
75% of games = team can't past the first couple gens and it's just a lemming fest into the killer around the hooks. No one else is helping with gens.
The fact that bad games are such a high % is making me not want to queue ;\
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I'm on board with you, whenenver this MMR is starting it won't change anything except hiding ranks. Just try to PROVE that it isn't working.
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Youd be suprised what algorithms can do. It really depends on how much time, effort and know how went into coding.
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I had this same thought and how it will affect most content creators :)
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We can't even double check the results anyway
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Again - whether or not I'd be "surprised" is of no consequence. With the amount of RNG DBD has *IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR AN AI ALGORITHM TO DETERMINE IF A PLAYER IS SKILLED*. Period. There is no two ways about it. It's literally impossible.
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I was trying to put it nicely, but no, its not impossible. You are 100% incorrect. Any situation you can dream up in game can be configured into the algorithm. It would need to be REALLY good and would take a ton of coding and testing, but its absolutely possible. You can see this in a lot of algorithms that are already out there doing irl things that are much more complex.
The hardest part is for bhvr to define what they consider to be skillful and what isnt. Once they decide that then they can program it.
And honestly, doesnt even need to be that complicated. It can be as simple as defining a win/lose/draw condition. Over time, despite rng, tge more skilled players are going to win/draw more than unskillful players.
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The first thing they need to do though is clearly define the win condition for the match.
I'm very interested to see what they end up doing with this.
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Yup. It would be interesting to see how they define a win if thats the route they go. I doubt theyll ever tell us though lol
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Yeeeeup. This.
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No, it really is impossible. There's too much player involvement embedded into skillful plays to have an accurate assessment from an AI. Period. BHVR, dev or not, does not get to define what "skill" is. The players are the measuring stick, not them. Skillful is how long you can be chased without using a single pallet, not how many pallets you can use to not be caught.
You're wrong, you will always be wrong. Keep being wrong.
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😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 ok bud. Whatever.
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Yeah, thats right. You forfeited the debate when you said BHVR decides what skill is. OOF.
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Its their game. They set the conditions for what skills are more important thsn otgers and what they consider the win conditions to be.
Youre clearly a moron that doesnt understand what algorithms can do. So whats the point in arguining with you? Youre just gonna continue stamping your feet screaming "NOT POSSIBLE" stay ignorant.
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The lightbulb was impossible.
Human flight was impossible.
Space travel was impossible.
Creating an MMR system might be impossible FOR YOU, but not for anyone else with the technical knowledge and drive to make it a reality.
Also, the Human body is incapable of surviving speeds in excess of 50km/h.
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None of those involve an AI without human input. HUMANS can do anything. HUMANS can judge things. Your point is invalid. As for technical knowledge, I create 3D models for a living here in Montreal; for video games on a contract basis. I feel like I probably have more knowledge of this process than you do. Better go make a video on it.
In all honesty - even the DEVS know it's impossible for it to be accurate and based on skill. Hence why they literally said they are prioritizing "fairness" last in the MMR, with latency being the first determining factor; but okay.
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I'm gonna laugh when OP looks at the leaderboard and realizes hes one of the "fake red ranks".
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absolutely nothing. Ranks will still exist, they just won't be used for matchmaking.
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"Humans can do anything"
That includes creating an MMR system for a video game that can accurately measure player skill.
/thread.
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I know I am!!!
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I thought we weren't getting a leaderboard.
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