It should not be possible to 99 doors
Why is this even a thing? endgame collpase has been created to avoid Hostage-games to be never ending, if endgame collpase doesn't start with the last gen done then doors should regress periodically if not kept opened so, in other words, one surv should stay to the door or the door would be back to 0 in moments
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If the killer had Noed and was chasing a teammate, then opening the doors and triggering the endgame collapse would be stressing for the whole team. that just means they have a certain amount of time to get everyone out. When closing the hatch as killer, it triggers the endgame collapse, and if the survivor couldn't partly open a exit and leave, the killer would have time to patrol both exits, making the chances of escape for the survivor pretty much impossible.
if the survivor team opened the exit and triggered the end game, it's their choice how they manage their time. also if you're having a hard time with survivors, the killer can also open the exit, forcing the endgame.
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The killer can open the doors. There's no hostage situation, which was exactly the goal of EGC.
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Can't a survivor exist from an opened door? The answer for both questions is yes, and the killer can open the door JUST now with this new mechanich
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Noed Procs on last gen, not with endgame collapse
You ARE meant to have a certain amount of time to get out, otherwise where is the challenge in this game survivor side? Plus you have 3 minutes that doubles when someone is hooked or slugged, so the time is not a problem AT all since you can save and get out in less then 20 seconds.
You can close the hatch only when it opens, and it opens only when theres just one survivor lasting, not before.
Doors spawn is RNG it means they can spawn near eachother or in 2 far sides of the map, partially opening the door is not the real problem in this scenario, the RNG of this with no rules in it who avoid worst case scenarios is.
If you are having a hard time with survivors you are not going to open the door then going back to the hooked person, you are forced to try and trade hook, otherwise it's a free unhook with no comebacks for the killer
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Yes, and survivor can go trough doors and get out of the trial, we all know that, but thanks for your answer :)
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Im gonna assume youre new-ish.
This suggestion would screw over solos completely, who already have a much harder game than SWF and i'd like to add A LOT of us refuse to play in SWFs.
Rarely do doors spawn on opposite ends of the map. They typically spawn very close together, that even the slowest killer can patrol them easily. Also, the hatch has a very high chance to spawn by or between the exit gates. Making it SO much easier to 4k as a killer now.
Survivors literally, cannot hostage take the game anymore. All while the killer still can if they slug everyone and no one has unbreakable. I cannot tell you how many games ive been in that i had no choice but to let my bleedout timer kill me, or DC to move on to the next game.
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The best way to balance this is to allow the killers to open the doors themselves.. whoops
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for me personally i hate how 99ing counters blood wardern rather the condtions were changed to when last gen is done but you were able to hook a survivor then the exit is blocked for a minute when gates open makes it more interesting and adds a bit of a challenge for survivors when it comes to gate plays.
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Killers can already open the doors. I personally think it's fine.
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endgame collpase has been created to avoid Hostage-games to be never ending,And that's what EGC does.
It prevents the game for lasting too long if nothing is happenning while also giving survivors a timer.
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i think the doors progression should decay progressively once the survivors stops opening it. The 3 lights can act as check-points as to when the decay will stop
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This is what I would like to see, because I think it forces a more dynamic choice on the survivors at the end of a trial. Though I do think that gate progress should not regress if a survivor is within 2m of the switchbox.
Say a survivor is caught and about to be hooked, but 2 of their teammates remain. Do they:
A: 3-Light (75%) the door and use both survivors to save? The door would only need 5 seconds to be fully opened from 75%, but that gives killer some opportunity to interfere.
B: Open the door and use both survivors to save? They are now vulnerable to Blood Warden plays, but can otherwise focus on pure rescue and escape.
C: 99% the door, but leave one survivor at the switch to prevent it from regressing? Allows the 99% strategy as we know it, but survivors have to coordinate and trade off some manpower for the rescue.
They don't need to be nasty about door regression, but I think adding in a little bit of it would spice up end-of-trial strategies.
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Killer opening the doors is a give up mechanic, similiar to survivors straight up walking to the killer to be downed. Has nothing to do with survivors 99'ing a door.
Should regress and maybe only progress after the switch is actually in the lower position. (I know i know, made in entity but switches dont work like that)
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The game can still be taken hostage; Survivors just do it differently now. If they haven't "gotten their fair share" of Bloodpoints they will not finish the last gen until they're done bull-- milking the Killer for points. This is why I wish there was a Concede option. I know I lost. I know it's over, but it's not over until the other team who is beating the crap out of me says it's over.
Post edited by Nos37 on4 -
Yes, but it takes a long time and will result in loss, unless you downed someone next to a door and you're ready for blood warden.
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In my opinion, the gates should regress by 5% a second when a survivor stops opening the gates.
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I don't think holding the game hostage is the problem, it's that this strategy destroys blood warden, it is a pretty cheap tactic.
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mate, you don't get my point.. First of all i have 1.5k hours and even if they are not the 6-7-8k hours of everplayedthisgame players i'm a professional videogamer and i take every minute in the game as serious as possible to see what i can improve on my gamestyle and stuff like this, but when it's no more a problem i can fix in my gamestyle and the game is not fun nor balanced in that case (i mean literally not a problem i have, but it's a problem that everyone has because "the game is made like this" and still unfair), then there's something that MUST be fixed in that case to make the game more balanced
i know how harsh is to be solo q player, i refuse to SWF too because i think it is the most shamefull way to play this game when it's up to 4 rank 1 players who just wanna destroy killers and stuff like that, but in the case of solo q players the very general point that should be in every player should be "I HAVE TO SURVIVE" You are working to save YOUR life, rest is collateral, if you can't hold the door opened and the other survivors are gettin chased and are hooked, YOU JUST GET OUT.
Plus, i JUST said that doors must not be 99% so people is not having an advantage over the killer by avoiding egc. you can still open the door and play the game THROUGH the egc even as a soloq player, i always do that, that's all the point of my suggestion
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i never said anything about holding the game hostage. 99% the door means you are avoiding a mechanic that you should go through because you made 5 gens and you have to get out as soon as possible, but this does not happen because the game allows you to hold the door to 99 and the egc doesn't pop. It's an exploit to have advantages against the killer
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Exactly.
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Something that does not happen IF survivors are able to 99 doors. i'm starting to think the doors should regress to 0 as totem does when you let go
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but you could still 66% doors... it could be something, i'm not saying differently, but still exploitable....
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i agree with everything, but i don't think that you could hold the 99% if near. maybe with a perk yes, but not as base gameplay, like with the quentin perk you could make the regress slower, instead of opening faster or both but opening should be nerfed
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maybe not this drastic! XD but regression nontheless
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... That people gets out of the door? i mean, you are meant to hold them in and kill them as killler... Dunno if you noticed xD
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...what? HAHAHAHHA
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The problem with resetting progress on exit doors is that it could create a scenario where killer could interrupt everytime you go to open it and would create a no win scenario for survivors which I think they tend to avoid doin, hence the hatch.
If progress would reset when you let go of opening a gate it leads to other issues that would be more problematic for players.
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Killers should not be able to see the gate lights or how much progression the gate has. Only survivors should see this. This way killers would have to use other methods than just looking at the 2 doors from a hill or in the middle of the map. Why should killers be able to stand in 1 position or run a small loop just looking for one of the gate lights to go on. Seems like killer welfare from BHVR.
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Yes, survivors should be able to 99% an Exit Gate. But there should be a perk introduced that regresses it if left unopened.
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no, because its also there so survivors can see the progress and run over and tap it open if it is 99ed. It works for both sides.
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What could be so problematic to a door that must be opened to actually activate the egc instead of 99??? there are 2 doors, you cant tell me that 2 survivors are not able to divide them self and go to the 2 opposite or even try to... The entire problem here is that THEY can decide WHEN to activate EGC, if you are forced to activate EGC for them you are actually leaving the hook and no more patrolling it ergo losing your only possibility to have an actual hook trade or even a chance to kill anyone, how hard is this to understand?
plus tell me why a survivor should not open a door and exit if the gens are done? apart the obvious reasons :\ I'll tell you, no reasons, you wanna save your friends? you MUST activate EGC or have an exit door whos regressing so there there would be gameplay from both sides, but till they will have the chance to 99 doors there will NOT be anything but camping the hook and hook trading till someone gives up or dies to last hook and THIS is not gameplay THIS is hostage for killer.
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why should survivors see where the downed or hooked survivors are then? Shouldn't they just guess where you are AND try and look around?
I was just sarcastic, it's obvious why the killer should see the doors :\ same as the killer seeing where the hooks are or where the gens are, those are his objectives he has to defend
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4 perks against 16 perks is already difficult to match. you can't ask to have another necessary perk to regress doors mate, it should be at base. It's like asking for a perk that allows you to kick gens instead of being able to kick them at base
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@BaroneMaximus Killers can open doors, plus, end-game is a nice part of the match for a killer to get some more points, and kills, if they struggled earlier in the match. It shouldn't be base-kit for that very reason. EGC makes survivors rush to the exits too early and harder to bait them back in for rescues. This is why 99ing doors most of the time benefits the killer. If they are encouraged to open them asap, the killer is pressured too much for making on the spot decisions as to go for hits and commiting to a possible down instead of potentially being strategic with it all.
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that really doesnt make sense at all 99ing the door only benefits survivors because then they control when they want egc to happen when it actually benefits them ie going for rescues, killers opening doors is actually even worse for killers they lose points if gates are open due to the emblem system so why in hell will a killer open it. i really cant see how 99ing benefits the killer and that notion that encouraging to open it asap only puts more pressure on killer is weird as i would argue if egc started earlier it would put survivors on more pressure especially if theres a survivor on hook.
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@GeordieKiller because end game is a good time for a killer to get points and kills via hook trades, baiting people back into the map in via slugging and generally trying to get multiple kills. In those scenarios where the doors aren't open, you can actually catch survivors out by having them rushing to a door injured but still having to pause to open it. It can be the difference between a free escape and the whole hook trading, baiting them back in situation starting all over again. An open door does put more pressure on the killer, so a mechanic in play (regressing Opening progress) that encourages survivors to open it asap does have a negative impact on killers that know how to play the end-game scenario.
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@Onyx_Blue the hook trading doesnt really benefit you at all in terms of points especially in terms of endgame you are still most likely to lose a pip and at best black pip and if they have to pause that means they havent done the 99ing correctly as the 99ing we are talking about is the same thing with gen tapping where it doesnt take a pixel to stop the gen regressing it is used for gates aswell so they can avoid the pause and escape. Also i might personally add hook trading is one of the most boring methods to do and forces killers to camp so i would rather they change the gate/ endgame where its a bit more fun and add pressure on survivors not killers while im not sure on regressing gates and i think the devs have stated not going to happen i would prefer egc to happen when last gen is done you can increase the time length to compensate but that added pressure now they got to get that gate open quickly make survivors think on their toes on what to do in scearnios where someone is on the hook would make it much more fun. of course blood wardern and other end game perks would have to change which is fair enough.
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@GeordieKiller of course endgame is a good way for a killer to get points. In your example, they played like garbage and it's now endgame, they literally get free hits and hooks via trading. Plus, slug pressure draws people back in. Not to mention that even that hiccup of 1-tapping a door to open it does still hinder the survivors escape run, they literally have to pause fractionally to open it. So, if we're using explicit examples here, then if the lever is on the side that involves them running past the main door to get to it, of course it is gonna slow their escape; as opposed to just hugging the corner and into the exit.
Of course endgame in it's current state is repetitive, it's the way it's gonna stay for a good long while, so gotta get used to it and understand that it is a good way for killers to draw on some pressure, get points and more kills via camping and slugging. And in the case of "no-gen-pressure-gamers" NOED comes in godly for them lol
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please do not assume that im new at the game im a rank 3 killer with 600 plus hours on the game and some of the points are incorrect endgame is not a good way for killers to get points it never has been, there hasnt been a single game that i had that i pipped or gain a high score cause of end game at best its black pip with an average of 10-15k points that is not good at all. and 1 tapping the gate doesnt slow them down at all it is the same princeple as gen tapping in chase it doesnt slow them down. i do see we have some common ground that endgame is repetitive and boring but to say it is fine when it encourages bad taictics camping and slugging is not fine i want to do more chases i want more action not camp or do slugging those are boring (while nesscary cause of the current climate of the game) things. Endgame should have more pressure especially when it comes to gate plays but atm gate plays are completely in survivors favour and cause no pressure on survivors and it encourages boring gameplay and bad tactics ie camping and slugging
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@GeordieKiller I didn't call your skill/experience at the game into questiom at all with what I said. And to counter your point, you're actually telling me that taking a brief moment to stop running/looping to tap a door/gen, doesn't lose that survivor ground in the chase? Of course it does. Maybe it doesn't always get them downed/killed because of it, but that doesn't outright mean it won't sometimes get them caught. Which is what my argument was saying. The increased requirements in a chase for a survivor to perform, will always benefit the killers pursuit of them.
I'm not a fan of camping and slugging either, but at endgame, it's just something i've accepted. However, again, this isn't always needed either; due to circumstances not always calling for it. Which arcs to my original response to the OP, make a perk that physically blocks the doors from being interacted with
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I wish killers could open the door to start EGC at any time but it'd be ripe for abuse. Killers could throw on NOED and Blood Warden, rush over to the door to open it at match-start, and make everyone depip.
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A. As many people already mentioned, just open the gate yourself...now the survivors have to make haste.
B. Even if game is “hostage”, that’s more chases, more hits, more points for you...they’re giving you a free chance to still win, capitalize on it.
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EGC is good as it is. When the surv already did 5 gens and 99% a door you, as a killer, already lost the match. Of course you can 4k after it, but how hard do you want to make it for the survs?
I Imagine after those changes, it could be a killer holding the game hostage. I could run trapper with iridescent stone and remember me (at tier 3 with 4 hits the gate takes 36 seconds), place a trap under each switch and so what? The surv would have to disarm the trap, i would get a notification and be chasing him away, the trap reopens after 30 seconds and the timer of the gates resets (goes down whatever). Even if i wouldnt chase him away theres a good chance it reopens under him, trapping him, the timer goes back while he blocks the switch. It would be so annoying for a survivor and very exploitable on killer side, especially with noed.
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Exactly this.
Not always, but often enough, killer profit from survivors that play over altruistic. Sometimes you get stomped anyway and in this time i think it would happen even if egc started right away. Or maybe sometimes you would get one kill where you could have gotten 2 or 3.
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Doors really should have a very slight regression penalty when not being opened. Very slight.
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What's so stratetig on waiting to trade hook or patrol a hooked person.... the 2 options i meantioned are meant to make the game fluid instead of stalling it into the last part of it. If you make the EGC start with the last gen, then they will be afraid of rushing the last gen ergo they will start doing more unhooks in a better way b4 doing last gen. And with the regress door mechanic instead you would make it pointless to grip the door b4 unhooking the others or at least not as valuable as it would be without it, and this would make the make longer and balanced for both parts.
the game as it is is too fast and you always end up having 3 people lasting at the end in the majority of cases plus SWF is making things worse by making it even faster then normal so a fix to this is necessary
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Can you plis tell me what rank are you? because you are talking about i kinda different game xD Seriously dude, in red rank you dont just trade hook people like you say, you have to be very bad to be caught and downed like that. In red rank people body blocks the unhooker and the actual unhooker has Borrowed so you really have no chance to get a trade hook at all. Plus they all run Decisive, unbreakable and dead hard or Adrenaline and this makes things impossible to make... The Egc would at least lower the time they have and allowing mistakes to be done for the rush of the moment, something that otherwise there wouldn't be, plus i quote the emblem system that punish you for the doors opened and even if it wouldn't be so, if you open a door you are not covering your obj, if you don't cover it they are free to grab him and with the door 99nd it's an easy escape so i don't see how this is even happening
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A if i open the gate i'm not defending the hook
B nobody ever talked about hostage, we are actually talking about abusing the time given from the last gen done to the door opened.
Nobody is giving me anything, since the usual scenario is them gen rushing and then borrow timing the last unhook so i don't see what are they giving me. It's just me trying not to depip because the game is actually unbalance survivor side
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How hard i wanna make it for survivors???? Dude the game for survivors is actually 0% skill cap and 100% M1nning gens :\
as killer you make just ONE single mistake and the game is over, without saying that sometimes you won't have a chance just in general.. Playing killer is so freaking skill cap even with the basic ones. as survivor you only have to care about not 3genning in certain maps and thats all, plus we are talking about 4 people cooperating vs ONE and i say ONE person. Something that people keeps forgettin is that you are ALONE against 4 players playing against you, It all depends on YOU and YOU alone while survivors can count on others to do something that they should do or not do since the game doesn't even punish them for "not doing gen" while i get punished for gens that are not being defended and people healings??? are we joking??? you are less in numbers and they have an easier game then yours??? how is this even normal to some people???
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@BaroneMaximus like Rank matters XD but i'll humour you anyway. I'm rank 1 and have been that way since August 2017, the reset after console debut.
The strategy comes into play by knowing who to slug and who to hook. If you bait it well enough, you can pull somene back in who still has struggle on the hook, this then pressures people to heal up and save them. If you catch them out, you get more kills. It can be a risk-reward game at the end for killer. Not just face camp and try to grab etc.
The EGC forces survivors to rush in early, or it can backfire and make them panic amd leave earlier too. The best a killer can hope for at end-game, is a closed Exit and multiple injured scrambling for it. You're guaranteed to get a bunch of points you failed to get earlier during gameplay. Your idea will make them do the latter of the two plays way more frequently. Overly altruistic teams will always lose the game vs a killer that can take advantage of their selflessness/greed.
The perks they use can alter it a little, but at high level you can play around those perks, like anything else.
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