Lets give a reasonable nerf to Decisive Strike
At this point everyone knows that this perk is run across almost everyone who either plays solo or in a group.
The perk is supposed to 'counter' tunneling, but sometimes it is used in aggresive way such as baiting a grab and stun, and I don't think it should award such playstyle.
Personally I think the perk is balanced in terms of countering the effect, but there are scenarios where I feel like the effect lasts too long, and you are sometimes forced to eat the stun.
So here are my suggestion to balancing it:
Decisive Strike:
- Now lasts 30/40/50 seconds
- Does not activate when you get grabbed off a vault or locker
- (optional) When in effect the survivor holds a piece of glass in his left hand
Thoughts? How would you tune the perk?
Comments
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The second one I like...that's it.
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Just keep it as is and make it unusable at lockers. If it's that big of an issue it thats really all that should be changed.
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all i want for DS is to make it so it deactivates if someone else gets hooked, thats all
i doubt they’d ever nerf it though because the devs have never stated it was an anti-tunnel perk
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I think making it not work from being grabbed out of lockers would a nice addition to it. No need to mess work the time of it . If you want to get crazy make it not work near opened gates
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Lockers aren't the only problem, though. If you run it with Unbreakable you're not getting hooked, so it permits you to play crazy aggressively. The perk needs to be changed such that it is no longer active in situations where a survivor is playing aggressively. It should exist as a powerful deterrent to tunneling, not as a weapon.
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None of those fix the problems.
10 seconds isn't remotely enough, grabs don't work almost ever on dedicated servers for that to help and glass in the hand just seems out of place.
Just make any actions towards objectives or saves makes it deactivate, easy. If you do any of those things then you clearly aren't being tunneled.
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How about the DS timer ticks down twice as fast while a survivor repairs generators?
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I think you should have to time it like DH. Just before the killer bends down to pick you up you roll over and stabby with whatever. This gives the killer an opportunity to dodge the hit and requires some sort of conscious effort from the survivor.
The problem with perks like DS and BT is that there's next to no effort from the survivor for a virtually guaranteed outplay in a lot more situations than legitimate tunneling or camping, with zero counterplay except playing around cooldowns. It's like if killers could run a perk that passively magically hooked a survivor for them if the survivor teabagged in their field of view. Yeah, might punish some toxic idiots but it'd also make using the duck button a pain in the butt.
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I agree with your idea along with making to were if they get healed than the perk deactivates! Sadly, That's what PEANITS said, and honestly I'm pretty sure if we ask the whole dev team what's the purpose of the perk they wouldn't be able to answer the question but they would say "It's not a anti-tunnel perk" yet it activates and has the counterplay of anti-tunnel
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DS has the Skill Check, though I imagine that's not a big deal in the higher ranks where the worst of the problems are.
Making the timer go faster when performing an action could alleviate things. If people want the full timer they have to not do anything if value, which favors the killer.
By the same token, would it be a buff/ problem for the timer to stop when a survivor is downed? That way the killer can't just slug and wait out the timer. Alternatively, if the Killer does that anyway, you can expend the use of Decisive Strike to pick yourself up and/or give you Endurance on being picked up. Potentially makes the perk more strategic in use and its effects are determined by whether the Killer actively tries to tunnel you or not.
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Honestly, I don't mind the way it is. I personally think it's a good counter balance for NoED. The only nerf I would give it is that it's disabled in the exit gate. Cuz as is, sometimes you gotta wait until the absolute last second to pick them up hoping it's ended by then.
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I don't think DS should be only nerfed, it should be nerfed and buffed.
It should get something along the lines of higher timer based on beiing chased/slugged but deactivate upon any interaction besides healing self or getting healed by others. Also that idea with shard of glass as notification is really nice.
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Holding a piece of glass in your hand, I can already feel my hand getting sliced up. Oof
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The reason survivors jump in a locker with ds is to prevent being slugged. Most of the time the killer slugs the survivor that was just unhooked and doesn't pick them up to prevent getting hit with it. It's not a big issue unless you only have one survivor left
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Greatly reduce the timer, but make it stop during chases and when downed. That would make it more punishing for real tunnelers, but not abusable as it is now.
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Leave gen grabs... I’ve countered an ebony mori spirit that way. (Been hooked once, acted like she wasn’t there, let her grab off gen, DS, gone.... killed about 2 min later though lol)
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I got like 4 grabs as Myers yesterday.
Anyways, don't nerf DS. Just deal with it. I would love for it to deactivate in lockers but I don't think the devs care.
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I would implement deactivation conditions:
The perk deactivates under the following conditions:
- The rescued survivor touches a gen
- The rescued survivor becomes fully healed
- The rescued survivor unhooks someone else
- The rescued survivor cleanses a hex totem
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Deactivates when the Survivor interacts with something, another Survivor is hooked, or the gates are powered.
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Here is what I would change.
DS deactivates when another Survivor is hooked.
DS deactivates during the EGC.
DS deactivates after you have been healed fully.
DS deactivates after spending X amount of time in a locker.
DS no longer has a time limit, it goes until one of the above things activate.
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Absolutely not. Imagine touching a gen and that deactivates your perk.
Just slug them for 60 seconds if you don't wanna eat their 5 second stun.
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ds needs to deactivate once another survivor is hooked the timer should not go down in chases and it should last 30 seconds, Ds F I X E D
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Almost all of these are bad ideas. I'm happy that y'all aren't devs.
The only good ideas here are: A) Make it count twice as fast whilst doing an objective (here, an objective is being in any situation where you can be grabbed whilst doing it. Healing/being healed are not objectives). B) Shorten the timer, but make the timer stop counting down while in a chase/downed.
B is the superior choice, as it actually punishes the killer for tunneling while also making it so that survivors don't have a minute of being MC Hammer, but A would do in a pinch. Adjusting times without giving a benefit is dumb, and making it so that if you're healed it deactivates is worse. That's a massive nerf, and wouldn't actually stop anything. No, correction, all it would do it make it so that the killer would just wait for them to be healed.
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The devs have stated that DS is intended to combat tunneling on at least 2 different threads.
Here's one: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/48381/design-decisive-strike#latest
"serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed"
And another stating thats not the only thing its used for: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/150989/have-the-devs-confirmed-ds-is-supposed-to-be-a-anti-tunnel-perk/p1
"The idea of it being purely to stop tunneling came from the community."
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Apparently, I can't remember where, the devs have stated before that it isn't really an anti tunnel perk?
So it shouldn't punish the killer for tunneling.
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The devs also thought that nerfing gen speeds when multiple people are on a gen is the answer to gen speeds being considered too fast.
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And they also thought that Ruin being used so much means it needed a nerf, rather than actually pay attention to gen speeds. We get it.
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Alternative suggestion:
- Keep the timer as it is at 60 seconds (optional: Extend timer by 15 or 30 seconds for a new total of 75 or 90 seconds)
- Timer pauses whenever a survivor is engaged in a chase
- Decisive strike now immediately deactivates if the survivor performs any aggressive or objective focused interaction AKA if any of the listed criteria is met:
- Survivor hides in a locker
- Survivor begins repairing a generator
- Survivor begins sabotaging a hook
- Survivor begins cleansing a totem
- Survivor begins opening an exit gate
- Survivor begins healing another survivor (does NOT deactivate if healing yourself with a medkit or Self-Care)
I believe this is more than fair.
2 - Keep the timer as it is at 60 seconds (optional: Extend timer by 15 or 30 seconds for a new total of 75 or 90 seconds)
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I like this but also add in the timer stops when in chase....
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It turns out with this version the killers will just grab the survivors when they try to vault through the window or just slug
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TBF, new ruin is actually better. It's insidious; you don't need to find it to work on generators, but leaving it up is a bad idea.
My biggest problem with old Ruin was that it was completely non-interactive and provided a strong ability. Plus, it was really RNG for both sides: a bad spawn could basically cost either side the game.
But that's off topic. Sometimes I disagree with devs thoughts. DS is very much anti-tunneling; it provides no benefit if the killer doesn't come after you after you're unhooked. BT is similar as well, in that if the killer is no where near the hook, it provides zero benefit.
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This entire thread is only about one thing: "Nerf Tunneling"
If Killer doesn't tunnel, DS is a wasted perk slot.
lol. just lol.
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except that's not true. DS can absolutley be used even if the killer isn't tunneling.
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The only time DS works on me is if its an all meg gang wearing the same outfit and I forget who I've hooked last so I dont know I'm tunneling.
In that case I should have just 'got gud' and figured out the difference in their names to remember who I hooked last.
The same answer applies, don't tunnel and DS is a useless wasted perk slot.
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Lately I've been running Blood Pact. It's mildly useful for the whole game and it still forces an obsession, tricking the killer into thinking there is a DS.
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again you can get ds'd without tunneling. example, its end game and the gates are 99'd. 2 people are left alive and 1 is on hook. the unhooked survivor trades hooks and dies while the unhooked survivor opens gates. Killer then downs the unhooked survivor before they can escape after sacrificing the other survivor and picks them up to get ds'd. in no way is the killer tunneling and they cant just let the survivor stay on the ground as they will crawl out of the opened gates. They lose because of a single perk that should have deactivated after the killer hooks someone else.
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Only change it really needs is if you unhook someone, DS deactivates.
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As long as ebony moris exist in the game with the same conditions they currently have to achieve it then DS is balanced
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Executioner, Cage of Atonement doesn't trigger DS . . . yet XD
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Are you also going to fix the reason the perk exists in the first place?
Perk is fine as it is otherwise.
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your solution to the broken perk is a singular killer. This isn't a killer choice problem its a universal problem. I gave you a very legitimate example and you respond with choose a different killer.
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Many times have I hooked another survivor, after a decent chase, then found another guy who was injured and downed them, and then got DSed.
ONE single DS is plenty to remove your entire pressure and make you lose.
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And many times a killer has abused their ability to Camp and forced others survivors off their objective, so what's the difference here?
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Ds is fine the way it is until ebony moris are nerfed , you want to nerf a easily countered perk but want to stay silent about how broken moris are , they literally have no counter except ds in a locker or "DoNt GeT hOoKeD" , "DoNt gO DoWn" it's a joke at this point to see nerf ds on the forums after 4 years , the old DS was way worse than the current version
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Play both sides. That's all I can say.
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First of all, no one is defending Moris in their current state. No one. Not even killer mains.
Second, Moris have nothing to do with DS as they are unrelated. DS won't prevent a Mori so the current state of DS doesn't affect Mori and vice versa. Keys are the survivor equivalent of a Mori, and if you want to talk about Moris, then lets put Keys on the table.
If you want a comparison to DS, then Noed is the closest thing. Both are perks that are bad for the game and reward bad play on each side.
Finally, I'd be on board for DS, Noed, Moris, and Keys all being reworked/nerfed hard. I've got my own ideas on how, but I'll save that for another thread.
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I play both sides. That shows me nothing.
I can camp and win games faster than a DS'er can DS me.
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Make it an exhaustion perk, along with Unbreakable, Dead hard, and Borrowed Time. the main problem is that when they stack together, they aren't second chance perks, they're also 3rd, 4th 5th and 6th chance perks. recall how the devs changed Ruin so it wouldn't work with Pop?
as for Decisive, it need to only activate when grabbed from the GROUND, because survivors should not be rewarded for getting caught deliberately from a locker or generator, and also it should deactivate if someone else is hooked or when you're healed. Cause frankly, if you get saved, run across the level, heal, work a generator while someone else is hooked, and then you get grabbed, you aren't being tunneled.
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Dude, I just wanted to say, I see you posting in a lot of threads and I nearly always agree with what you have to say. It's so refreshing.
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[insert generic DS nerf here for obvious upvotes from bad killers]
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