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Demogorgon Rework | The Upside Down Dimension, Portals and Add-ons Rework!
In most of my matches as and against Demo I noticed one thing - he is very weak at the beginning of the game and just does not have time to do anything, I hope that the future change related to slowing down the game at the beginning of the match will affect him well, but now I want to give my the idea is that the demo can do much more than he does now. And make it so as not to violate the canon of the series.
Portals Change
Now quite often you can encounter this situation, playing as Demo:
You put the portal next to the generator, activate it with another portal and sometimes check if there is anyone near it by holding m2. The instinct works and you strive for the nearest portal or put a new one, but a couple of sad situations can happen here:
1: you cannot put a new portal, since you have already set the maximum
2: the nearest portal is too far away and you do not have time to prevent the survivors
3: as soon as you get to the nearest portal and have already chosen the one you need and started teleporting, the survivors break it and the action is either canceled or you teleport to another portal. Or they just already fixed a generator
Such situations are very unpleasant and I would like to slightly improve the portals.
Press and Hold the Active Ability button to place an inactive Portal on the ground in front of you. Inactive Portals (white Aura) are invisible and not audible to Survivors and cannot be sealed by them.
Hover over any Portal and Press and Hold the Active Ability button to travel through the Upside Down to arrive at the targeted Portal. (no second portal required)
Portals become 'activated' when they are first traversed to or from. Only active Portals may be sealed by Survivors.
Additional features
- Portal setting takes 1 second by default. (no changes)
- Portal entering takes 1.5 seconds.
- Power Recovery takes 15 seconds by default. (may be decreased with Add-ons)
- Digging up a Portal will take a Survivor 16 seconds (3 survivors max). (may be increased with Add-ons)
- The post-teleport Undetectable Status Effect lasts for 2.5 seconds (may be increased with Add-ons)
- During teleportation through the portal, all light sources on the map will blink (instead of a loud sound that sounds through the whole map).
- If you set a maximum of portals, then the next portal you set will automatically replace first portal you set (just like freddy's snares).
Now the portals have become better and it will be a little more sense to use them, but that's not all. I would like to see the Upside Down in the game with the new mechanics that I want to show you. It will be somewhat reminiscent of the pyramid head's Cages of Atonement and Freddy's old power, but read it first.
The Upside Down
The upside down is a kind of alternative to our world, but much darker and sadder and I came up with its implementation, which is good fit dbd, it consists in a slight slowdown of the game.
Survivors in another world will sit in shrubs which is simillar to hooks that will slowly kill the survivor, it will look something like this:
In technical terms, when a survivor gets there, he is on the same map, but with visual effects (simillar to freddy's power), like in the series (pictures below), he also cannot interact with objects that can be interacted with in the our world, moreover, he can't see survivors who are in the our world. Other survivors and Killer cannot see him too. Survivors in Upside Down can hear all the sounds that occur in our world but in a slightly distorted form. (I don’t think that adding vines to each map will be very profitable, it’s enough to make new textures for generators, hooks and chests with vines that entwined them, flying pieces of the membrane as in the series and a dark blue fog that severely limits the field of view)
Gameplay
Playing as a demogorgon and holding the survivor on your shoulder, Press and Hold the Active Ability Button to go to the Upside Down.
While in the Upside Down, you can plant the survivor in a bush with vines, which, like the entity, will slowly devour the survivor.
Survivors can't wiggle off and heal in the Upside Down.
After planting the survivor in bush, Demo automatically enters the our world.
In the first stage, the survivor will need to perform a skill-checks to fight off the vine that wants to get into the survivor’s mouth.
When moving to the second stage, the vine immediately makes its way into the survivor’s mouth and will gradually suck out vitality from him, he will also have to perform more complex skill checks to prevent the vines from completely grasping the survivor’s body (arms or legs).
When the survivor moves to the third stage, the survivor dies and sacrificed to the Entity.
To free the survivor from the bush, another survivor have to dig it up, holding the m1 (when the survivor digs up the bush, the timer stops). To save the Survivor from the first stage, you have to dig a bush for 2.5 seconds. To save the Survivor from the second stage, you have to dig a bush for 6 seconds (may be increased with Add-ons).
During the first stage digging, nothing special will happen, but in the second stage, skill checks will appear, if they failed, the progress will slightly decrease and the timer will slightly decrease not in favor of the survivors.
Survivors can get into Upside Down only when there is a survivor in the bush.
Survivors can get into Upside Down passing through the randomly appeared passages (4 passages at a time), they will be highlighted by white aura to all survivors, when they can get into the Upside Down. (you need to get out of it in the same way).
Survivors will cough while they are in this world, the longer they are there the more intense they will cough.
Survivors who went to another world cannot stay there for a long time due to the toxic atmosphere (except for survivors in the bush) and if they stay in the Upside Down for ~60 (?) seconds they will lose consciousness and will be automatically planted in a bush.
If a person is in Upside Down, his icon at the bottom left of the screen will have a different look and if he is not in the bush, he will have a timer before the survivor loses consciousness, it is visible to all survivors, but not to the Killer.
Add-ons Change
Since most of Demogorgon's add-ons are terrible these days, I will improve them and make them a little more interesting.
Rotten Pumpkin
Increases the total number of available Portals by 1.
Moderately (-30%) impairs visibility in the Upside Down.
Sticky Lining
Slightly (+1.5s for both stages) increases the time taken by Survivors to dig up the bush.
Viscous Webbing
Slightly (+15%) increases the time taken by Survivors to seal a Portal.
Moderately (-30%) reduces Skill-Check successful zone while sealing a Portal.
Barb's Glasses
Moderately (-5%) decreases the survivors movement speed while in the Upside Down.
Considerably (+10%) increases Demogorgon's movement speed while in the Upside Down.
Eleven's Soda
If the Injured Survivor spent at least 30 seconds in the upside down, when this survivor has quit the Upside Down he receives a Broken Status Effect for 60 seconds (The survivor is not counted while in the bush).
Thorny Vines
Moderately (+2.5 meters) increases the radius in which Survivors can be detected by Of the Abyss.
Considerably (+45%) increases the time taken by Survivors to seal a Portal.
Brass Case Lighter
Survivors under the effect of a Portal suffer from the Blindness Status Effect. Once out of contact with the Portal, this effect persists for 60 seconds.
Violet Waxcap
Moderately (+2 seconds) increases the duration of the Undetectable Status Effect applied to The Demogorgon when emerging from a Portal.
Haste at amount of 3% is applied to the Demogorgon for 5 seconds when emerging from a Portal.
Lifeguard Whistle
Survivors under the effect of a Portal suffer from the Exhausted Status Effect. Once out of contact with the Portal, this effect persists for 15 seconds.
Vermilion Webcap
Considerably (+5 seconds) increases the duration of the Undetectable Status Effect applied to The Demogorgon when emerging from a Portal.
Haste at amount of 5% is applied to the Demogorgon for 5 seconds when emerging from a Portal.
Upside Down Resin
Considerably (+4s for both stages) increases the time taken by Survivors to dig up the bush.
When Injured Survivors come out from the Upside Down, they gain Mangled and Oblivious Status Effects for 25 seconds.
Unknown Egg
Demogorgon sounds can now only be heard to Survivors within a radius of 16 meters.
Considerably (-50%) impairs visibility in the Upside Down.
Considerably (-5 seconds) reduces Of the Abyss Recovery cool-down after traversing the Upside Down.
Leprose Lichen
Reveals the Aura of all Injured Survivors while traversing the Upside Down.
Tremendously (-20 (or -25?) seconds) reduces the amount of time Survivors can spend in the Upside Down.
Considerably (-60%) decreases the Demogorgon's Movement speed while traversing the Upside Down.
Red Moss
Survivors see only two farthest passages to the Upside Down.
When a Healthy Survivor comes out from the Upside Down, the Demogorgon senses it with the help of the Killer's Instinct for 5 seconds.
Portals can no longer sense Survivors.
I think that’s all I would like to see in the game. yes, I know what I came up with TOO MUCH, but why not? That would be very cool, having so many interesting mechanics and learning to resist it. I am more than sure that something like this will never appear in the game, but no one forbade me to fantasize. Did you like my idea? I will accept constructive criticism and may correct something. Thanks to everyone who read all of this.
Comments
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yes, please! Demogorgon should’ve been the one to have custom hooks, not just Pyramid Head!
The Upside Down plays such an important part of the show, The Demogorgon is just a mere pawn in the mystery of the other side. So it seems crazy to me that it’s just been boiled down to a method of getting from point A to point B faster instead of being recognised for how important it is!
Licensed killers usually have the more intricate/interesting kits, Demogorgon should be cool too!
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yes
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still waiting for more feedbacks
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Yeah demoboy isn't the strongest killer at base. Rat Liver feels like a must, and early dropping pallets renders his shred somewhat useless compared to other chase shutters which tend to completely ignore pallets. and obviously you need to use a snowball perk like save the best for the last, Otherwise for the most part you'll be capitalizing on survivor mistakes.
I think he needs some love and the upside down idea really got my attention, I think a really simpler way though is just for him to place a portal then like drop the survivor in it.
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If the demo had an Upside Down then I would like to play against demo always.
Maybe you are right about putting the survivor into the portal, but then, playing as the killer, you will not be able to see the upside down, which will be sad.
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I’ve always wished they would do something like this. My disappointment when The Upside Down in DBD was just all black with a red light was off the charts.
To add to this concept, how about when you’re in The Upside Down, this music plays: https://youtu.be/vqffY-6OVKc (At 2 minutes and 30 seconds)
I think it would do a lot for the overall atmosphere of being in it.
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It would be so cool!
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Im a fan of this, but theres a few changes id make. First, the 10 seconds to get someone out of the bush seems too high to me, especially if they only get 30 seconds in the upside down in total. I think the short unhook time that was used to hooks and cages should stay the same as its a huge deterrance already for rescuing teammates when you need to go into the upside down to get them out. Secondly, id say around a minute in the upside down sounds fair, but if they stay over that, instead of immediately putting them in a bush, return them to the overworld in the injured state, and if they are already injured then give them the deep wound state or the broken state. If theres an automatic way of getting a survivor hooked/bushed then the game could technically be won after hooking/bushing one survivor without even hitting the rest of them. Other than that, despite being a survivor main, I would love to see this implemented. Demogorgon is one of the easiers killers to counter right now and it does not do the demogorgon from the show justice. This could also create loads of new opportunities for the devs when they make new killers, with the idea of a new dimention being possible.
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Maybe the punishment in the form of the fact that the survivor is automatically put in a bush and sounds too strong, but I wanted to give the survivors fear and tension, being in the upside down, and yes, I probably gave too little time to get out of there, I would probably change these things in my post: increase the time spent in the upside down up to a minute, as you said, but would have made it so that the rescue of the survivor from the second stage took ~8 seconds and at least 3 skill checks in this period, and would also add addons that could slightly reduce the speed of saving survivors, so that the killer just had a little more time to do things.
Anyway, thanks for feedback!
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I just decided to rework the demogorgon add-ons to match his new abilities and just improve the bad ones!
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Thanks for feedback!
I watched your video and the concept is really interesting, I hope more people will pay attention to it.
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Not gonna say anything other than Demogorgon doesn't need a rework. He's fine as is.
I can understand frustration with a lot of good Killers that would make people think they're bad. Slinger has low map pressure. Pyramid Head's ranged attack actively works against him. Nurse is frustrating to play. Hag is frustrating to play. Why play Oni when you can play Billy?
I get all of it. I really do. But for Demogorgon, I really don't know what to tell you other than "git gud". Shred is a versatile, powerful chase tool that can get hits normal M1 Killers definitely can't, and because of its fast rev and unrev, it is equally as capable of zoning. Demogorgon's portals give him insane map pressure, but unlike other Killers, you actually have to put effort into keeping them afloat. Luckily, the game gives you the ability to do just that by telling you if Survivors are near your portals when you're charging Shred. Hell, the fact that Survivors have to even spend time disabling portals just to disable your map pressure automatically gives him more stall than many other Killers on the roster.
Demogorgon has a setup ability that can be ignored in favor of his fast, aggressive chasing power. They go hand in hand; no other "setup" Killer has nearly as much freedom as he does to stop getting things ready to go chase a Survivor, and then just as soon afterwards going right back to setting up. Said setup doesn't even take that long, either; you don't need to place all 6 portals to have a good traversal web made. He is one of the most versatile Killers in the game and I simply cannot understand why people don't play him. His skill curve isn't even all that high.
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Nah, demo needs rework since demo can be easily countered by genrush and easily countered by smart survivors (I've been maining him since Demo's release). Demo's main problem is that he simply does not have time to deal with experienced survivors and the new world - the Upside Down, a way to help this and make the game for survivors against him much more interesting and just make him more popular. Now the gameplay for survivors against him is something like this: dodge a couple of times, break 2-3 portals per game and escape. In any case, you are wrong, Demo needs a rework or some kind of addition to make it more enjoyable to play as him and to play against him more intensely.
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I'd be hard-pressed to believe you actually play Demo at all if this is what you honestly think. Demogorgon is a very aggressive chaser because Shred is a highly, HIGHLY versatile ability. I've repeatedly scored hits across the entire length of safe loops thanks to this guy's dash, and I've also zoned Survivors equally as many a time by baiting them into dodging. It really isn't that hard to hit his Shred, and it's not that hard to bait it either. And again, your portals might be mediocre if you aren't actually defending them but the game gives you the perfect tools to determine if you need to or not; you should probably use them. If Survivors are breaking an average of 2-3 portals each, then yeah, you're doing an abhorrent job of not only defending them, but placing them in areas Survivors will easily find them.
Tl;dr: Get creative and get real. Demogorgon has a fast, flexible chase ability and some of the best mobility in the game when played right. Just because you're playing him wrong doesn't mean he's good.
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"I'd be hard-pressed to believe you actually play Demo at all if this is what you honestly think." - same to you actually.
As the Demogorgon you get shred successful attacks more due to the mistakes of the survivors than for your knowledge in him (my personal experience as him since demo's release). Anyway that's not the point. I did not touch on the shred in this post, but you are talking about it which is wrong.
I am waiting for people's opinions about my proposals, and not: "ooOoOF, you are playing wrong for him, he is OP and you are all noobs, he does not need anything, etc."
"If Survivors are breaking an average of 2-3 portals each, then yeah, you're doing an abhorrent job of not only defending them, but placing them in areas Survivors will easily find them" - you talk like this like how I play, however this is my experience against him on the red ranks.
Not many people play as Demo and even fewer of them play really well as him, because his power is not very interesting and, as I said, he can be easily countered by genrash or by swf's.
In general, I did not find anything sensible in your posts, except: "you do not know how to play as him, he is very strong and he doesn't need anything". I am waiting for an opinion on my changes, not this, so stop and, as you said: "git gud".
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"As the Demogorgon you get shred successful attacks more due to the mistakes of the survivors than for your knowledge in him"
Now this is just blatantly false. All it takes is a little bit of thinking outside the box when it comes to running tiles, and there are multiple, multiple avenues from which Survivors will be outright forced to either take a Shred or take an M1, and there is nothing they can do. They have to make very hard reads to properly juke a Demogorgon when he's played well.
"Anyway that's not the point. I did not touch on the shred in this post, but you are talking about it which is wrong."
It's wrong to explain why a good Killer doesn't need a rework?
"I am waiting for people's opinions about my proposals, and not: "ooOoOF, you are playing wrong for him, he is OP and you are all noobs, he does not need anything, etc."
I don't care about your proposal if I feel it's not needed. And I feel it's not needed because Demo is in a great spot as is.
"- you talk like this like how I play, however this is my experience against him on the red ranks"
Then the people you're playing against are also playing him poorly. And wouldn't it be better to at least base your faulty anecdotal evidence off of experience in playing the Killer yourself?
"Not many people play as Demo and even fewer of them play really well as him, because his power is not very interesting and, as I said, he can be easily countered by genrash or by swf's."
I think the "his power is not very interesting" part is subjective, but even then, it's hardly an argument to be made when you take a look at the literal ocean of Legion, Bubba, and Wraith mains in this game and realize that a Killer can have the most boring, basic, vanilla power in the entire game and people would still love them. I, for one, think Demo's power is incredibly fun and one of the most well-balanced in the game. I have a lot of fun playing both as and against him because in most scenarios, I feel like me losing is actually my fault and not me getting screwed over by dogshit game mechanics. I think that no one plays Demo because the way he runs tiles is subtly different than the average M1 Killer, and people struggle to realize that and thus just don't want to adapt. Plus, he's also a setup Killer, and most people would rather just chase all game. That's why Hag has such a low playrate even though she's one of the top 3 Killers when played well.
"In general, I did not find anything sensible in your posts, except: "you do not know how to play as him, he is very strong and he doesn't need anything". I am waiting for an opinion on my changes, not this, so stop and, as you said: "git gud"."
If you don't want to argue then just take the L my dude. If I find whether or not Demo needs to be reworked in the first place a more pressing issue than whether or not your rework is actually good, you should be prepared to actually make your case. I won't want to hear your rework if I don't think it's needed.
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I'm a bit confused, can the Demogorgon ONLY travel to the upside down while carrying somebody on their shoulder? Or can they use the same portals that survivors use?
If he can't go back and forth between dimensions that would be kinda boring from the killer's side, it just seems like hooking somebody that you can't defend at all, in exchange for slightly inconveniencing survivors a bit longer than normal. If he COULD however that makes things more interesting, being more dangerous to survivors trying to rescue the bushed survivor, perhaps in return it can't hear or defend generators in the real world. The timer for survivors would have to be toned down while getting chased otherwise it would be Legion 2.0 where you will get bushed if Demo doesn't give up on you.
One other thing I would change is survivors still need to be able to wiggle. Otherwise Demogorgon could just grab somebody, travel to the Upside Down and then go AFK to grief people, which is boring for the killer too but we shouldn't give trolls tools to ruin people's day. Maybe just double the timer.
I really want the Upside Down to be implemented in some way for Demogorgon, it's not a weak killer but its power is kinda bland, Demo deserves having another dimension more than Freddy honestly. Though due to licensing sadly we are unlikely to ever get something like this in the near future.
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In any case, this whole dispute that you started is meaningless, since everyone has their own opinion on different topics.However, if you enjoy arguing with people, let's continue.
"Now this is just blatantly false. All it takes is a little bit of thinking outside the box when it comes to running tiles, and there are multiple, multiple avenues from which Survivors will be outright forced to either take a Shred or take an M1, and there is nothing they can do. They have to make very hard reads to properly juke a Demogorgon when he's played well." - this is called a mistake (at least personally, I think so), when the survivors were led to the juke by the killer, I said everything correctly.
"It's wrong to explain why a good Killer doesn't need a rework?" - some good killers needs a rework too, I have submitted IDEAS that would only make a killer better.
"I don't care about your proposal if I feel it's not needed. And I feel it's not needed because Demo is in a great spot as is" - I don't care what you say about the fact that he doesn't need a rework. if I want to submit an idea, I will submit it and wait for people's opinion.
"Then the people you're playing against are also playing him poorly. And wouldn't it be better to at least base your faulty anecdotal evidence off of experience in playing the Killer yourself?" - My experience? Played more than 1.2k hours, I do 4k without tunneling and camping like other experienced killers. sometimes, playing as a killer, I try to get the most out of his capabilities. I can win swfs and not whine against them. why do you need it?
"I think the "his power is not very interesting" part is subjective" - I put it a little wrong here. I meant: to somebody, his power may not seem interesting, or depending on perks / add-ons, etc. And here I can give a bunch of examples of why people do not play as him. Personally I don't feel very interesting playing as him.
"If you don't want to argue then just take the L my dude" - I will write in the book of the rules of life: "if you do not want to argue with people who start an argument for a strange reason, especially on the forum in the section where anyone can submit their idea for people to look at it - L" Cringe.
"I won't want to hear your rework if I don't think it's needed" - Well, stop writing about it in my post and move on, don't linger here, lul. I also don't want to hear such words from you if they are not needed.
What else will we see? mm?
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I generally wanted to make it so that he could also get into the dimension, but I considered it too strong, since he would just camp the survivor in the bush, and the survivors simply would not have time to save him, since they could only spend 1 minute there, and with add -on even only ~ 35 seconds. Perhaps I will change my mind or come up with something else.
About wiggling, yes, I probably messed up with that too, I was only thinking about that: a survivor can still be saved with a flashlight, and if they not, survivor will go to the Upside Down and can't get out, I think doubling the timer would be a better idea.
I decided to add a dimension to make the demogorgon just a little stronger and much more interesting, Demo deserves some love.
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"- this is called a mistake (at least personally, I think so), when the survivors were led to the juke by the killer, I said everything correctly."
Then you're wrong. There's a difference between one side making a mistake and the other side outplaying them. You can play well, but if the other side is just better than you, it doesn't matter. In these scenarios, the Survivor has to be better than the Demogorgon to win, and similarly the Demogorgon has to be better than the Survivor to win. That's balanced. That's good game design.
"some good killers needs a rework too"
Only if they're poorly balanced, which Demogorgon isn't. In my opinion he's the most balanced Killer in the game.
"I don't care what you say about the fact that he doesn't need a rework. if I want to submit an idea, I will submit it and wait for people's opinion."
And I gave you my opinion, and my opinion is that your rework is unnecessary.
"My experience? Played more than 1.2k hours, I do 4k without tunneling and camping like other experienced killers. sometimes, playing as a killer, I try to get the most out of his capabilities. I can win swfs and not whine against them. why do you need it?"
There, now your anecdotal evidence is slightly better. I mean, it's still entirely anecdotal and very logically fallacious, but progress is progress.
"Personally I don't feel very interesting playing as him."
Wait. Wait. WAIT.
"Personally I don't feel very interesting playing as him."
THEN WHY IN THE NAME OF GOD DO YOU MAIN HIM?
Either you're lying about not thinking he's interesting, or you're lying about maining him. Either way, you're lying.
" I will write in the book of the rules of life: "if you do not want to argue with people who start an argument for a strange reason, especially on the forum in the section where anyone can submit their idea for people to look at it - L" Cringe"
- I'm assuming since you attributed the quote to "L" that you're quoting Death Note. But I'm here to argue why Demo is good and doesn't need a rework, not to tell you how absolutely edgy and sad that is, so I'll leave it be.
- Homie, if you submit ideas for a REWORK you should EXPECT people to argue that a rework SHOULDN'T happen. Not wanting a Killer to be reworked is just as valid of a reason for disliking your rework as thinking the rework is bad, and you should be prepared to defend your position on why the Killer needs to be reworked, not just say "We're not talking about whether or not he needs a rework so f u". By suggesting a rework at all, you are automatically making the case that the Killer should be reworked, and as such you must be able to defend that case.
- You know what's more cringe than being cringe? Calling someone "cringe" in 2020.
"Well, stop writing about it in my post and move on, don't linger here, lul."
No, you made a case that Demo needs to be reworked by posting this thread at all, and I'm going to argue that case until you convince me I'm wrong or vice versa.
"I also don't want to hear such words from you if they are not needed."
The only thing here that's not needed is a Demo rework.
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Hooray! continue!
"Then you're wrong. There's a difference between one side making a mistake and..." - ok
"Only if they're poorly balanced, which Demogorgon isn't. In my opinion he's the most balanced Killer in the game." - ok, in my opinion, the Upside Down will make Demo more interesting.
"And I gave you my opinion, and my opinion is that your rework is unnecessary." - ok
"There, now your anecdotal evidence is slightly better. I mean, it's still entirely anecdotal and very logically fallacious, but progress is progress." - I really don't understand why you need my killer experience.
"Personally I don't feel very interesting playing as him."
Wait. Wait. WAIT.
"Personally I don't feel very interesting playing as him."
THEN WHY IN THE NAME OF GOD DO YOU MAIN HIM?
-Do you really think that people who main someone do not get tired of playing for the same killer / survivor, and if they main killer/survivor, then they must be interested for the whole time?. I will add: I began to consider it uninteresting probably the month before last, I do 4k almost every game and it is already fed up and does not seem interesting anymore. That's better? huh? Digging into what is clearly not worth it.
"Either you're lying about not thinking he's interesting to make a point, or you're lying about maining him. Either way, you're lying." - yeah, yeah, ofc.
"You know what's more cringe than being cringe? Calling someone "cringe" in 2020." - nice excuse.
"No, you made a case that Demo needs to be reworked by posting this thread at all, and I'm going to argue that case until you convince me I'm wrong or vice versa." - ok
"The only thing here that's not needed is a Demo rework." - Nah, he needs it :)
what's next?
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