How to describe all Deathslingers in one image
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"You can't expect the killer to cross the map to check the gen in the corner."
In my experience, this is the essential difference between the expectations of killers and the expectations of survivors.
To a killer, not camping means not face camping or standing around for no good reason, and not tunneling means not intentionally choosing to chase the guy that just came off the hook. Not slugging means you put the downed guy on the hook if you're not already in another chase, but if you've got something more pressing or if someone is the obsession and you're not running obsession perks it can wait as long as it takes.
To a survivor not camping means leaving the area altogether once you put someone in hook, even if you've seen other survivors in the area or you're close to the active gens and don't forget that you're obligated to check on that one gen way over there that's clearly never going to be worked. Not tunneling means the killer should actively avoid chasing anyone who has been unhooked until to they've hooked everyone else. Not slugging means pick up the downed guy immediately, or at the very least you should never go more than about 15m and nobody should be left on the ground longer than 15 seconds.
The killer sees it as a competition with the survivors, and he's trying to win. Most killers avoid the scummy tactics because it feels bad, but being a killer is about using strategy to close off the survivors' options.
The survivors see it as the killer's duty to ensure that they have fun. They expect a certain amount of time in the game, maybe a certain amount of bloodpoints or a chance to accomplish their challenges, and they absolutely should not feel frustrated (and losing is frustrating).
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You have to activate the trap for her to be able to teleport to it which can be avoided by crouching or using a flashlight, you do that and she cant use her power to protect the hook, there is not much counterplay you can do against a M&A Deathslinger at 17 meters.
The other Killers? I have not mentioned them so I dont see why are you bringing them to my argument.
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nope. there's a build that let's you teleport whenever. need to check again what it was
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Yes the Mint Rag but its an ultra rare, while the Deathslinger can play like I said without the need to equip any addon at all, just M&A and even without M&A is still very easy for him to camp hooks hidden. You are comparing an ultra rare addon to a Killer base kit to claim one is campier than the other.
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Can we put that image next to all the “NeRf DS” posts?
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I agree, the moment the 2nd survivor gets injured, you stop doing gens and get in position to rescue someone.
However, on the other side of that. Deathslinger is one of the worse killers to proxy camp. It's absolutely annoying and unfun. His terror radius needs to be adjusted to 32 meters, there's absolutely no reason he should have a 24 meter terror radius with a ranged attack. It encourages proxy camping.
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Funny, i thought it was this
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Its because of his speed. Every 110% movement speed killer has reduced TR and really, Deathslinger is no better at camping than any of the others.
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sure sure and i have legacy skins :(
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It's also entirely possible the first one hooked had Kindred. The other survivor was closer and went for the unhook. Was already injured and got caught. We can spin theories back and forth all day. But neither of us know what exactly happened in this match. I'm not saying either the killer or the OP did anything wrong.
My only point has been that I don't believe you understood the OP's point. And given the photo they took I can see why. Especially given that, at least from what have been able to tell you seem to play more killer than survivor.
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If the other survivor was already injured, then its clear which one should be the one going for the save... OP is healthy and judging by the full medkit has been staying away from the action the entire match.
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Yes, but you can't keep your teammates from making misplays. The OP could have intended to make the save and an injured teammate decided to try it before they could instead. That's my point. We could sit here all day and try to say what should have been done. But without alot more information it's impossible to say.
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It's not that people don't understand the point, or that "killer mains are biased!!!"
It's that this isn't an example of a killer doing something wrong, or even unduly mean. Rather, it's a classic example of survivors blaming killers for their mistakes and the situations they put themselves in.
There is NO reason for the killer to leave those hooks now. Literally zero. It's not to be toxic, or "ruin their fun" at this point, it's just the most intelligent strategic choice in that situation. That goes for any killer, not just Slinger.
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Here in lie the two school, camping is the “smart play,” if you’re trying to get kills I guess. But letting them get I hooked and reset is the better play for emblems, BPs and (GASP) a fun drawn out game.
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Ok, well, let me know when survivors plan on "a fun drawn out game" when they find they're outplaying me.
Seriously, all these silly appeals to emotion aimed at killers gets tiresome. It's not their job to be the custodians of survivors feelings, or to coddle them a little so they "have more fun". If you want the game to last longer, then survive longer.
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If OP was gonna go for the save, he'd be abit closer than the literal furthest he could possibly be on the map. You cant get much further away from those hooks without hacking your way through the wall. Lets say your right though and OP played everything perfect and his teammates were just over-altruistic and were SO bad they put themselves on hooks... Whats the killer suppose to do from here? Exactly whats his next move suppose to be other than to look for the last person in the most likely of areas from a vantage point once their aura reading perk has failed to give them a clue? You say they should "let OP unhook" but thats (once again) LITERALLY telling them to go to the furthest corner of the map rather than nearby gens/area where ironically enough, theyd find OP, lol.
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I love when fellow killers mock the idea of not being a hardcore camper by saying something like, ".....survivors think we should go to the opposite end of the map when we hook someone." It's pure bs. Maybe a small portion think that way, but not all. I became a killer main because I got tired of the low-skill drooling hardcore camper that you face 7 of 10 matches. Tunnel you off the hook, ignore new survivors right in your way. Never leave far enough from the hook for your TR to go away. Boring freaking matches and low BP even if you escape. Nothing like doing 5 gens, 5 totems, escaping, and barely getting 12k.
I am rarely accused of camping, usually by a seriously butthurt teabagger that got owned. I don't go to the opposite end of the map, I just go for the next gen. One I either think is key to protect, or that I suspect they are on. I can usually engage another survivor in a chase before the last is saved. That is all most players want. To be engaged throughout the game. To have a chance to play it, even if they lose. To interact with the environment and the killer periodically. Joining a game, getting camped on your first hook and dying with less than 10k is extremely frustrating to someone. Just like facing the bully 4-man SWF with all the meta perks is frustrating to me as killer. At least I get the satisfaction of lots of BP at the end of my frustration. The camped out survivor....not so much.
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Camping and Tunneling is always the best play for a Killer.
However, from the developers point of view, camping and tunneling ruins the "fun" for 4 out of 5 players. That's why DS and BT exist and it's also the reason Deathslinger will probably be looked at by the developers and have is terror radius increased. Because right now, Deathslinger's terror radius promotes proxy camping and tunneling.
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There is a reason actually. As I explained earlier in the thread. But in short as killer I want them to save so I can get more points. In the photo you can clearly see the killer is in no danger of losing that game. If I have that amount of control I am going to try to maximize the number of points I get.
I also, repeatedly made it clear that in the photo the Deathslinger wasn't doing anything wrong. Other than not try for more points. But that's down to your own personal goals for a game.
All I have done is try to clarify the OP's point. You can disagree with their point. They certainly didn't convey it well. But not everything is some massive anti killer conspiracy.
Yes. I argued repeatedly that the Deathslinger should have moved off. Either they care more about kills. Or expected the last survivor to try to save.
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Lol. We are really just going in circles here. I say they should let them unhook if they want to maximize points yes. Also if you are correct and the other gens were all over by those hooks. And the killer knows the other survivor isn't on them. Why not check that far gen? If his goal is to ensure at least a 3k he's playing it right. If he wants more emblem and BP he's playing it wrong.
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Nope, don't even try that. (And no, camping isn't usually the best play, it's a great way to throw a match for one kill.)
This isn't the killer facecamping someone to be a jerk or something. This isn't a Bubba standing in one spot the entire game.
No, this is a killer with 2 people on nearby hooks, 3 gens left, and only 1 survivor out there. There's no good reason to walk away at that point.
Constantly telling killers that they should give up advantages and cut survivors slack for reasons gets old. Especially since if the survivors got the upper hand for a moment they'd be out the gate in two seconds flat, no matter what the killer thinks.
(Also, it's funny how survivors always talk about how the killer should have farmed more, should have been nicer, should have made the game longer or more fun....but only AFTER they've lost. If try communicating that I'm interested in farming when 4 survivors are still up, most of the time they'll just rush gens and escape ASAP, we all get 10k points, and they tell me how easy it was.)
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Im basing the gen situation off the location of the 2 hooks, the missing distortion tokens and the full medkit (which implies OP probably hasnt been in a chase). Based off that, its very likely OP has been far away from where the hooks have been happening and if theyve actually been keeping busy... Theyve probably been acting as gen jocky on this side while the rest of the team has been getting WRECKED. The map is Oni's version of Yamaoka estate, meaning the hook furthest away is on the very opposite side of the map while the one with Kindred is hooked next to the main building with the Deathslinger currently standing on the main building. I'm just going off clues from what I see and the most likely of situations given the amount of time OP has had to work with considering they havent been chased.
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Yeah, a 110 killer who's got 1 dead, and 2 on the hook right next to each other. Why would he go searching when it's almost a guaranteed save if he does? 😂
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Actually, Otzdarva proved that proxy camping/tunneling with NOED netted 4k consistently, game after game for an entire day. He wasn't running basement Bubba or anything like that.
And I'm not saying this from a survivor perspective, I'm saying this from a developer perspective. As a developer, you want the game to be fun for both killer and survivor player. Game play that is unfun for one side or the other, ends with nerfs. Look at Legion and Freddy, both had extremely unfun mechanics for survivors, both were changed. Look at god-loops, unfun mechanic for killer, god-loops were nerfed.
Deathslinger, his terror radius is promoting unfun play by Deathslinger players, aka proxy-camping and tunneling. Nerfing his terror radius will for Deathslinger players to not have the option to proxy-camp and will promote better gameplay for Deathslinger players and make the game more fun for survivors.
You know what other killer had mechanics that allowed him to hard-core tunnel? Pyramid Head. What did the developers do to Pyramid Head?
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He can also go fishing and do 360 no scope on you.
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Yes, well, if we were all Otzdarva we could all just win every game doing whatever we want - which is what he often times does all day long. (Although interestingly enough, Slinger is the killer he often seems to struggle with.)
As for the rest, it's irrelevant to the topic. If there's some change you know that's being made, then great. Otherwise you're just complaining about a killer but trying to do it in a way that has the air of neutrality and objectivity, when it's clear you're anything but.
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I don’t know if this was aimed at me, but I was one of the ones who said about going to the opposite side of the map. If you properly read what I was referring to, it was the survivors who call you a camper because they happen to be hooked next to a generator people are working on. That isn’t camping. They’re the people I am mocking. What you went off on a tangent about is something completely different. Purposely tunnelling somebody straight off a hook and chasing other survivors near a hooked survivor aren’t the same thing, which unfortunately a lot of survivors don’t realise. I was rank 1 on both sides before the rank reset yesterday so I have in depth knowledge on both sides. I know how annoying a lot of killers can be, which is why I’m actually preferring playing as a killer myself recently. But I’ve been called a tunneller and camper plenty of time’s by people who just don’t know the meaning of the words. I never deliberately do either of those things, but I’m not going to walk away from a hook when I know there are survivors right there. Why would I?
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I play both killer and survivor. However, I realize, you have not said anything to prove your point, yet I have laid out point after point after point proving mine.
BTW, "trying to do it in a way that has the air of neutrality and objectivity, when it's clear you're anything but." is your only counter argument and that's a Ad Hominem logical fallacy. You're basically attacking me instead of trying to defend your own stance.
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Tru3 constantly 4ks w legion and doesn't camp, or use NOED. I guess legion needs more nerfs too then right? Comparing some of the best players in the world to "average" Players isn't a very fair argument, now is it?
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It reminds me of survivors who literally belittle the killer in chat if he didn’t give the last survivor the hatch. My reply is always the same, “oh if you had opened the gates which 1 of you was letting me have 1 kill?” Hint they answer is no one.
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Yeah yeah, nice try.
You're literally just calling for Deathslinger nerfs. That's it.
You can try to put on this air of being some kind of master of logic who's just interested in deep, objective analysis from the developer perspective or something, but that doesn't change what you're doing or that your points are hollow.
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And yet when you say that on the forums, people will always pop up and say, "Oh, I let the killer get me all the time!"
It's funny how you never find a unicorn in the wild, but if you ask a group of people if any of them are unicorns they'll all raise their hand. 🤣
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Pig? Wraith? Ghostface? Why are they any different when they can emit ZERO terror radius? I’m not sure what you play on, but I’ve never encountered a camping Deathslinger on PS4. I see a lot more Wraith players doing it. It doesn’t mean he needs to be nerfed. If a killer wants to camp, that’s their prerogative. Is it fun for the player being camped? No. But you just move onto another game. What’s stopping a killer from slugging and just camping over your body? Nothing. But these mechanics which are in the game are there for a reason. This is the risk you take when playing against real people. You’re not always in for a fun time. You either accept it or don’t play. It’s simple.
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another classic when you play as deathslinger is people complaining you pulled them out of the gate. Alright, so why did they unhook someone a second before death? that's equally 'unfair'
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Was not aimed at you. I was more referring to the individuals who come on these forums and cry about the survivor/killer rulebooks. Was not aimed at anyone in particular.
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I have to say, I've been following this thread and I can't help but agree with everything you've said. :)
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He got no reason to leave those 2 you could have been against any other killer he would have done the same
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This.
24m terror radius (without perks and add-ons) make him some kind of insidious Huntress with the quick-shot gun. Devs, probably, should take a look at it. Pigs 28m terror radius ( xD ) was a HUGE problem, so, IMO, Deathslinger should be nerfed IMMEDIATELY. :^)
Since someone in my team had Kindred, God bless that poor innocent survivors soul, I noticed that Deathslinger also went up the hill to make sure that I can do nothing about the hooks. Well, you know that survivors are punished for unsafe unhooks, so, even if I would carefuly get to the survivors, he would instantly down them anyway. EZ quicscope, true. If there is no points for me, nor bp, YES, Im better staying on my gen. 99% it. Then, if some time is left, I better open a chest or do anything else but lose my pips and bp.
Also, if survivors suicide or ragequit in less than 10s after being hooked I can get my unhook emblems points back. Showing any sign that I want to unhook those guys would be the dumbest idea. :^)
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Exactly, I main Deathslinger and I've never camped either. Not every killer is the same, I've played against good Deathslingers too.
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:^)
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And why is this a problem? This is the smart play. He has 2 survivors hooked, the last guy didn't show up on BBQ because distortion, so the deathslinger likely thinks the last one is nearby. He is obviously up on a hill looking around trying to find the last one. Why is playing to win such a bad thing? is he supposed to just run to the opposite side of the map, and wait for OP to unhook the other 2, all of them to heal up to full then split up on 3 different gens? What exactly should the deathslinger do here that is more "fair"
Stop worrying about fairness, and start playing the game to win. If you worry about fairness, then you are a scrub by definition:
An excerpt from the book for you on this very topic:
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
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I have every killer maxed out and unlocked all perks, i don't care about bloodpoints.
The emblem system is a joke because i get punished for playing well, and some killers just can't get certain emblems by their design.
Rank is meaningless in this game when rank 1 is just a matter of playing a certain number of hours.
So the only thing left is to have fun. And you know what is fun for me? Winning. Winning is fun.
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Or how about when a survivor has kindred, you see theres no survivors within 40m of the hook and yet deathslinger walks back and forth back and forth back and forth
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"your only counter argument and that's a Ad Hominem logical fallacy"
Hey, this is the Fallacy fallacy -- the incorrect belief that pointing out a fault in logic invalidates the position of the other side.
Also, I don't know that I'd categorize his argument as an ad hominem thing; without explicitly calling a spade a spade, he's refusing your argument in part by calling you out on an attempted argument from authority tinged with an appeal to moderation.
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