Proposed Decisive strike change
Part of this post existing is because I just had a game where 3 DS users on ormond were able to buy enough time for only 1 guy to get 3 gens done and as it goes on ormond at that point there is no chance for a come back. But the problem I found with DS in this game in particular that I never had in any other game is that the DS started to overlap with one another so 2 people (maybe 3) could have DS at once. Since tunneling is focusing one person why is it that DS can be on 2 people? My proposed change will hopefully sound fair to both sides and make DS more of an anti tunneling perk and less of a 60 second invulnerability perk.
make DS last 30 seconds after being unhooked and pause the timer when a chase starts within the 30 seconds so you could theoretically have DS the whole game if you’re being tunneled the whole game.
ds will deactivate when you start repairing a gen for 3 seconds in the 30 second timer because you are choosing to continue to progress the game, with the 3 second repairs you can tap gens in chase to stop regression.
I know the fact of the devs noticing this is rare but I wanna hear from multiple perspectives, survivor, killer, maybe people who play both.
side note: sorry if I accidentally come off as that one killer main who’s mad about every survivor perk in existence.
Comments
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Honestly it's not hard to chase a survivor for 30 seconds with your back facing them. You know how killers look away from the obsession to gain play with your food tokens right ? They can do this to chase a survivor for 30 seconds and the game won't even realize it.
Now for the 3 second gen repair thingy. What if the killer actually mindgames you into thinking he left you even though he knows exactly where you are ( talking about mikey, ghost face or piggy and others ), the gen you were working on is 90% and you start working on the gen to pop that adrenaline and BOOM the killer downs you after waiting for 5 seconds just like how some killers wait for BT to be over when chasing someone.
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The solution is that don't tunnel the generator? go repair another one
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The only change needed is if you do a genny it deactivates.
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How on Earth do you get hit with 3 DS?
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The odds of us noticing your post is actually pretty high. Even if we don't get a chance to respond to everything, we do actually read most of what is posted here.
Anywho, getting back on topic, the issue with the chase mechanic is that it has predefined rules that can be abused. Under normal circumstances, it's not an issue: You only stand to gain bloodlust by being in a chase, there's no downside. When you start penalizing being a chase, however, that gives you a reason to avoid being in a chase. You can do that simply by turning around. If the survivor isn't sprinting in your field of view (and you don't hit them), you can't start a chase with them. Simply put, if you wanted to actually tunnel someone, you could do that way more efficiently by moonwalking after them for 30 seconds rather than the normal 60, then down them and hook them freely.
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What about the changes that suggest to make DS disable itself if you preform for example unhooking or working on a gen ? I think those are pretty reasonable.
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Salty brother who keeps on losing at Mario Kart, so I told him to shut up.
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Thanks a lot for a response especially on this topic. Yeah I've always liked these changes too, I think giving survivor option to either progress their objectives or protect themself would be pretty fair change to DS.
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Doesn't that just mean that the chase mechanics need overhauled so that killers can no longer moonwalk to spoof the chase system? It could still be initiated the same, but after the initiation the game could take into account the killers potential LoS, like a laser pointer that's locked onto the survivor and doesn't allow the chase to decay til the survivor stops running or its broken. Sure, it would destroy PWYF, but it would open up some interesting possibilities like this DS concept.
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It's an interesting idea but it could easily be abused by just moonwalking or going into cloak as wraith etc.
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With that once you go on the gen is it permanently deactivated for the remainder of the game?
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Nah the changes usually involve that once your DS actives after unhooking for 60s if you during that time do some interaction like unhooks/gen repair it'll get disabled. If you get hooked again the timer starts again and same conditions apply.
Basically, if you use DS just to escape from the killer and not force objectives then you aren't affected by the change.
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I wouldn't say so. It's just an outcome of tying a penalty to something that should be a good thing. Again, there's no reason not to be in a chase under normal circumstances. It only provides you (as the killer) benefits. When you start to create perks that add penalties to that, then you start to have issues. It's not the chase that's at fault there, though, it's the one outlier perk that's using something it shouldn't be using.
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As a survivor main im all for the change to make it far for everyone both killer and survivor. Also do you think this would work with perks that stack well with it?
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Just a random idea that popped into my head while reading this thread, but make the timer 30 seconds and then make it work like Mending. If you are running, possibly also slugged since the short timer it won't go down or slow timer down when slugged so it doubles the time (60 seconds), down. Deactivate when fully healed or working on a generator, since it shows you're not being tunneled. Only way I can think of it being abused is to just run around to keep the timer up, but then you're not doing anything to progress the game and just wasting time.
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The OP idea: Terrible. Just moonwalk and you're fine.
For deactivating DS when doing a gen: YES.
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Surv starts reparing gen after unhooking? decisive strike is canceled
But he wants to reapair the gen that is right near his hook at 60% of progress... well thats mean he prefers risk over safety and can be punished for it
Surv is fully healed after unhooking? decisive strike is canceled
if he has time for doing it it means he is not being "tunneled"
if he has time for healing it means killer has to put down a healthy survivor.
now this is not an "antitunneling" perk but perk of insolence
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Honestly its the best option. Remove the timer entirely. Once a survivor has healed, or interacts with anything (except vaults and pallets of course) ds deactivates. The only abuse i see is them sitting in a corner injured while the last gen or 2 are completed. But i dont mind that so much if thats what they want to do
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Fair enough, though I have yet to see many ideas for unobtrusive anti-tunnel measures that don't revolve around chase mechanics.
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Why DS should be deactivated when you're fully healed? Just because you're somehow healead (Adrenaline) It doesn't mean that the killer will not farm you or tunnel you.
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If yoi had time to heal youre not being tunneled. If adrenaline just popped then you got a speed boost and healed already. Immunity on top of that is stupid op.
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This idea will backfire on you. Good survivors manage their sprinting, so they can lose chase by blocking LoS and walking when they don't need to sprint in order to reset bloodlust without having to use a pallet. Your suggestion will make DS stronger, but will make it easier for killers to gain bloodlust on you under normal circumstances
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This, I'm a little less supportive of. Don't get me wrong, it's all good intent here, but I think this would actually make it far more frustrating to deal with. I could get unhooked, sprint around for a minute, jump in front of you while you're chasing someone else a minute or two later and you'll still get hit by DS.
I'd much rather have a very clear cut condition, one that I can predict and play around easily. In the case of a 60 second timer, it's pretty easy for me to keep track of when someone's unhooked and when DS is going to wear off. Adding in a "deactivate on _____ actions" condition is also very simple; if I see them do it, I know it's safe. But adding on a timer pausing mechanic on top of that makes it incredibly hard to tell if they still have it or not. They could have it several minutes later and I'd have no way to tell.
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What if the killer has noed?
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You should have done bones. Run small game or detectives hunch if you want to counter noed. DS isnt meant to counter every perk in the game, its meant to counter tunneling
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lol ok. Good thing that BHVR balance the game and not players.
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We'll see what happens when they get around to the halloween dlc. I have a feeling ds and OoO are both getting nuked, theyre just not there yet 😊😘
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Doubt it, but ok
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That’s fair point.
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A. you're not penalizing the chase, you're penalizing the tunneling
B. Moonwalking for 30 seconds and still being able to follow the survivor and down them is a feat unto itself and should be rewarded. I get that it's silly gameplay, but on paper you're making it sound easy. Really though, this will just make people slug for 30 seconds instead of 60. Which I think is enough of a nerf that not everyone will run it, which will mean that more people will be caught off guard by it.
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Why is that reasonable?
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Aaah yeah, I get what you mean. Then it'd need an UI when DS is active, but that'd probably be a bit too much to tell a killer, so you're right, my idea doesn't quite fully work
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@Peanits I think leaving the 60 second timer and just having the perk disable if a survivor unhooks or does a gen is simplest. I don't think anyone would disagree that if you choose to progress the game you're not being tunneled anymore and shouldn't have DS.
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Also, @IPlayOniWayTooMuch, isn't your suggestion Scott Jund's idea? He's proposed that idea several times in videos and on stream.
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Why When a killer will just keep chasing up and back off and wait for you to do something and grab you knowing then your ds will be disabled? As a killer main myself, ds is actually fine rhe way it is. Is it annoying at times? Sure. But when there are some killers who tunnel and atay after one player when they get unhooked its needed the way it is
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Why not just get rid of DS and add two other mechanics.
- Killer can no longer see hook auras.
- Once the killer hooks a survivor, the survivor is randomly teleported to a hook at least 30m away. If the killer re-enters a 16m radius of the new hook and remains there for 5 seconds without activating the chase mechanic, he player is moved again.
This makes it much harder to camp and tunnel and outright eliminates the need for both DS and BT. Just dump both and make them something different. Maybe DS can be reworked into a BP perk (survivor BP still sucks). BT can be a (EDIT) a bp perk as well. What if it is a perk that ensures you die at the end, but if you save so many others you get a huge BP bump? I don't know...just spit-balling here.
You can literally program all of this to deactivate when the 5th gen is complete. That allows the killer to still hold on to that hooked survivor when the gens are done. If all gens are finished, the survivor remains on the hook he/she was placed until removed by another survivor or a successful escape attempt.
All this crying about DS and BT is an easy fix. I'd love to see it harder to tunnel/camp AND to have these perks removed as they are now.
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This is how current chase mechanics work for killers:
1) If a survivor is running (not walking) in direct LoS of your FoV, the chase begins.
2) While those conditions are met, the chase is maintained.
3) Chase is slowly lost once those conditions are no longer, in their entirety, met. That means either LoS blocking, or they stopped running.
What I am proposing is to remove the "maintain inside FoV" condition. That way, the only effect it will have is to stop moonwalking, and it won't make anything else any easier since the chase decay timer is immediately reset already. That wouldn't make it any easier to gain bloodlust, but it would make it so that the chase doesn't decay just because the killer is moonwalking. And it certainly wouldn't backfire by making DS stronger, it would act as intended by removing chase spoofing.
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I can kind of see where you're going with this, however, currently even if you keep sprinting, but stay behind an LoS blocker for long enough, you'll still be able to lose chase as survivor. I'm not 100% certain I understand what you're proposing, but if did get it right, then the killer would still be able to maintain chase as long as you don't make too much distance and hold down the sprint key, regardless of whether they can see you or not.
I guess it's give and take - make a perk stronger, but give up a mechanic that helps survivor in general against bloodlust. However, it feels like you're giving up a lot for the sake of one perk which is locked behind a DLC, which a lot of players don't even have.
I still don't think it's a good idea.
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That second portion is exactly it on the dot. DS was never meant to be an anti tunnel perk. All the "rework/nerf" did to it was just add a 60 second timer to it. Before the nerf if could have been used the same exact way by saving DS. But everyone used it on their first down and weren't smart with it. If anything the change only made the bad plays with it impossible and forced you to use it at smarter times.
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I eat DS. I dont care, get it out of the trial right away. Leaving people on the ground is the dumbest thing ever. 60 secs of wasted time. Get DS'd chase em down and knock them. I dont even use that perk when im survivor. Overrated. Unless you have a team that can capitalize on those 60 secs and you have unbreakabill its just a waste
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What about the issue of lockers with DS:
If you open the locker to grab the survivor they DS to get away.
If you leave the locker the survivor gets away anyways.
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I like the idea of if you heal up or work on a gen you lose it right there and am ok with a shorter timer as long as the change includes "if a survivor is downed while DS is active the perk timer stops and you keep DS till either you get back up which point the timer keeps going from where it left off or the killer picks you up and you use it
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Sure, if the timer pauses while downed. Because if you get downed before the timer runs out or before you decide "to put yourself back into the game" then you got tunneled and the perk should work, right? Or logic only applies if it benefits the killer?
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Why on earth would you work on another generator from 0 to 100% if you already have one at 90% ?
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Imagine you have been hooked, the killer is not close to you and your buddy saves you. Now -
Case 1 - You both start working on a gen not caring about heals. The killer comes back, your buddy distracts him from you to help you escape but the killer just doesn't give a darn. He goes straight for you to kill you again and secure that 1K at least.
Case 2 - Your buddy heals you. Now again you both start working on a generator. The killer comes to you guys and even though he could have hit your buddy easily but instead decides to chase you and kill you ( again to secure that 1K )
I stg I'd be pissed if they changed it so that DS deactivates on touching a gen or any other actions and this happened to me.
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because they chose to progress the game and actively cant be tunneled at that point if they feel safe enough to perform an action. Under no circumstances other than be on the recieving end of borrowed time or standing at hatch/exit gates, should a survivor feel safe in this game
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Then go work on a different gen ? If you have time to heal/work on gens rushing the game for killer then don't be suprised if killer rushes to kill you. If your priority is to be safe and not get tunneled you're free to now work on a gen and go somewhere else, maybe find a comfortable locker to hide until killer finds new prey.
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What do you mean rushes to kill you ? Fam you just hooked me, and there is another guy right beside me who's even trying to take a hit for me but you still going for me like what the actual * cough * If that isn't tunneling then I don't know what is. Hide in a locker, stay away from objectives ?
What I talked about is a good scenario where the killer isn't camping, I haven't even mentioned about the killer camping you and tunneling you. It just kills the fun. Why would someone pay money just to get camped and tunneled ? Don't think about me or anyone else who has been playing this game for some time. Think about the new player base, DS can be very helpful for them.
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