Will Pgtw receive the ruin treatment?
I'm genuinely scared for this perk, as it's use rate is probably really high like old ruin was, but I guess this means slowdown is really important, cuz without one, you're at a disadvantage.
What are your thoughts on this?
Do you think they will nerf pop at some point?
Comments
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Just from experience (playing the game more than 3 years now), I fully expect a PGTW nerf/a rework à la Ruin.
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If it does, it was a trap all along.
Nerfing PGTW because more people run it now, BECAUSE of the ruin changes, seems like a trap considering one caused the other.
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Most likely will get nerfed after devs have implemented early game stall.
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They said they changed Ruin because it wasn’t fair on newer players who couldn’t hit skillchecks. PGTW doesn’t make hitting skillchecks more difficult so I can’t see why they’d need to change it.
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"They said they changed Ruin because it wasn’t fair on newer players who couldn’t hit skillchecks."
. If anything new players should be able to run around and do a totem, reeasons like "new players miss skill checks" only believed by the gullible.
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I’m not gullible but I know all my friends who started playing the game were awful at hitting skill checks and Ruin made it almost impossible for them. It was easy to bypass at high ranks but not at lower ranks so I personally understand why it was tweaked. I actually think the current Ruin is stronger because it actually puts more pressure on survivors.
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Use repressed alliance
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old ruin: you dont have to do anything it's just there and omegabusted
pop: you have to chase down a survivor, hook them and find a gen and invest a kick which regresses 25% of the progress.
nah it's fine
i think thana + dying light is problematic. both should to different things like dying light regresses idk heal speeds only and thana objective speeds only. if you stack them and then run perks like pop it becomes mega busto
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My point was, if you cant hit skill checks, you most certainly can hit W and go look for a totem.
Using "cant hit skill checks" as a reason to change something illustrates without doubt the player lacks skills, its not the games fault. I mean, its literally called "skill check" oh the irony.
Super Mario Bros design on NES had a Goomba come at you as soon as you start, forcing the player to learn the first motion in the game, "jump"
If a player cannot learn to jump, then its them not the game fault.
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Or maybe they'll just realise everyone's going to run whatever the most effective stalling perk is because GENS GET DONE TOO GODDAMN FAST.
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After the Billy nerfs, the jaded part of me is thinking we'll be seeing something like:
"We want to encourage skillful counterplay for the killer, so we're changing PGTW to light up a gen in a white aura when the killer kicks it after hooking someone. If no one touches the gen within a minute, the regression is applied."
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The actual amounts thana and dying light add to gens are pitiful, especially once you consider how one person will always be unaffected by DL so the overall values that it slows for are cut by 25-50%. That and it takes a tremendous amount of time and hooks to build DL and thana is only effective if they don't heal. With Plague having a default fountain the only killer that it's good to not heal against is Legion, and who ######### cares what a Legion brings.
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dont give devs ideas
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This seems likely. Maybe they'll add a cooldown similar to Surge.
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I doubt PGTW will ever get changed, as a survivor main I do see it as a balanced perk. You have to win a chase, successfully hook, and then make it to the gen you want to hit before it gets finished to pop it. PGTW promotes good and fun gameplay, no matter how irritating it is to have your gen instantly regressed by 25%. And now there is a perk that directly counters it, so anyone who really has a problem with PGTW should just run Repressed Alliance (or whatever that new gen blocking perk is called)
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I get where you are coming from, the changes to killers lately have been major, game breaking changes. Kinda off topic but i gotta ask, can anyone feel the difference in the smaller maps? I honestly see more pallets and windows sjnce the changes.
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Yep. It'll get its time on the chopping block pretty soon, I bet. I wonder if any survivor perks will get the same treatment, though?
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Yeah, I see what you mean. It was strange for them to change an entire perk to just cater to newbies, especially considering Ruin wasn’t ever really used on low rank killers. And if a newbie was playing with their high rank friends, well, that’s their issue.
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PGTW is strong , but with Silent update we have a counter if we choose to run it. Which is a much better way to nerf the strong stuff imo. Maybe they can tweak the timer if we ever get smaller maps but that's a problem for another day
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For killer to use Pop they have to chase, down, and hook a survivor and it has a limit to how many times it can be used a match. Not only could the killer be distracted after a hook and not use Pop but survivors are now able to use Repressed Alliance to block gen from killer kicking it. If they changed pop they'd make a new survivor perk useless.
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This is a good way to look at it. You have to successfully chase / down / hook somebody to even get to use it. I’d be more worried about it being changed if it was something that was always active, but as you said, I see it as a balanced perk. It rewards a killer for doing their objective.
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wouldn’t be surprised if it got nerfed when the beginning game stall comes
honestly hope it will get nerfed when that comes out
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I have seen this "early game stall" thing mentioned, what is it?
I do not watch the dev streams etc
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Lmao
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As someone who has run RA since this update... Yeah its kind of a ######### perk to "counter".
- Pop last twice as long and you get it way more times per match then a survivors gets RA. The argument here might be that multiple survivors can run RA (I've legit seen like 1-3 other people since release where someone else had this perk and I have yet to see anyone other than myself actually use it in a match)
Basically, RA sounds like an anti-pop perk, but really all it does is stop survivors from finishing a gen that is 99% because you used it when the killer with pop got near you. I think as SWF you can better utilize RA as an anti-pop perk, but as solo its basically useless.
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I doubt the devs will nerf it. It doesn't need one at all really. The killer has to work for it, unlike old ruin.
If they did decide to nerf it, the only things I could see them doing to it, is maybe adding a cool down to it, or lowering it's up time. Though it's really not needed.
Also current ruin imo is still a very strong perk, potentially even stronger than old ruin in some cases. And imo the devs did a pretty good job on it. But Pop? Leave it alone.
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I hope not. I used Pop before it was cool.
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I doubt it, it rewards the killer for winning and hooking survivors, ruin was the opposite
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That would make it go back to being bad. That is a bad idea.
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I think it is very possible. Now that they plan to include some sort of start of the game slowdown, once that has been live for a while, there is a good chance slowdown perks will be adjusted. Perhaps further killer adjustment will happen as well depending on how advantageous the slowdown is for killers overall.
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can anyone send me to more info on this early game slowdown you speak of?
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Honestly old ruin was a lazy mans perk, just equip it and hope for the best. On low (meaning rank 10-20) it was really powerful bc they either cant hit skillchecks yet or are not experienced enough for the great ones. Against good red ranks it was less effective, due to them hitting great skill checks consistently.
Also finding totems is not that easy on all maps even for experienced players. (mostly open) maps like auto heaven, macmillan, coldwind, red forest or crotus prenn its easy, (mostly closed/indoor) maps like hawkins, lerys, the game, dead dawg or midwich its pretty difficult.
PGTW has a requirement and a max usage of 12 times. I think its in a pretty good spot rn, because of the hook requirement.
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I have a long documented history in forums of not running any hex perks tbh, never ran ruin, never relied on it. I only started to use Pop when pop came out because it relied on rewarding killer for playing good.
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There is a possibility but I doubt devs will nerf it. It's a hook perk that motivates you to leave the hook. Going by the logic of BBQ never being touched because it "discourages" camping, I think it's safe to say PGTW won't be changed in the near future.
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It's fine how it is.
It's not a lazy comfort perk as the killer has to hook survivors in order for it to activate.
It's also an anti-face camp perk which encourages the killer to damage gens after hooking instead of straight camping.
It should not be touched.
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If they do then it's gonna kill there game. Thats the only perk killers have to slow the gen rush down somewhat, and nerfing it would cause a lot more killers to quit. Swf's is and HAS been dominating this game w the same Meta perks way before the ruin nerf, but ruin was used too much and the nerf was justified, right? 😂
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its alright, you do you :) I'm in general fine with everyone using the perks that they chose to use, bc at the end they paid for the game and dlcs not me ;)
Just wanted to add, that it didnt really do anything against really good players and probably annoying af if you're just starting dbd.
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yep, long ago I think I was watching a streamer, dont even recall name, and his advice on ruin as survivor was "use it to get better with great skill checks, dont go look for a totem, just hammer through it," so I started to play survivor that way. THink it was Angrypug.... but maybe not.
I also stayed away from using Whispers due to killers like Marth who said "you need to be able to track without it, sure it helps, but learn to track first or you run the risk of relying on whispers, "so I never ran whispers or ruin tbh
BUt I did get better hitting those great skill checks LOL
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Albeit indirectly, BBQ HAS been nerfed.
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Honestly no thana isn't permanent and
Pop doesn't need a nerf the smarter play would be to sort out the other gen perk
Like over charge over charge would be a great perk Excpet there's one problem
The damm skill check does not work
On newbies yes
On a rank 1 who's used decisive for a majority of there games no
Bringing those kinda perks up would be better as you can offer more variety like all I'm saying is how much better would be if you could say
Should I use pop as it gaurenntees me 25% regression on a gen after a hook or should I use overcharge which has big risk but a huge reward
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if they nerf anything else killer related before they balance their game im quitting for good. POP is my favorite gen regression perk because you actually have to accomplish something before the survivors finish a gen. It doesnt need to be touched but like everything else theyve done, itll probably get nerfed
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Yeah wasn't pop in it's original form only good for speedy killers, who could get around the map quickly like Billy or say current Freddy? While being poor for your standard 115% movement speed killer that lacks any ability to get around the map quickly? Changing it back just seems like it would harm the basic standard movement speed killer the most and limit their choices when it comes to perks they can use and builds they can run. Like ghostface is a 115% movement speed killer when not crouching and simply can not teleport around the map or get from a to point b very quickly like BIlly or Freddy can.
You bring up good points. It rewards a killer for doing their objective, of hooking survivors, to help with their other objective of stopping the gens from being done. In order to make use of pop, you have to be good at chases and still have gens left to kick. The perk is well design [maybe one of the best design perks in the game] , in that it rewards you by doing one of your objectives and makes your other objective easier. That and promotes a anti face camp style way of playing, if you want to make use of the perk.
That and repressed alliance now exists, which can block off a gen and keep it from being popped.
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Pop should be slightly nerfed and other slowdown perks should be slightly buffed to encourage more build diversity.
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Pop has a full on counter now. Why would it need a rework/nerf?
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New ruin is better than old ruin tbh.
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The old version did not give you nearly enough time to consistently make proper use of it. There was a very real chance that you would not be able to find a gen you'd meaningfully want to kick in that time frame, and if you needed to chase someone down, you definitely were not getting use out of it. It was pretty much only usable on Killers who could zoom across the map to check the gens. The current Pop makes it so you don't have to choose between using the perk and chasing someone, which is a good thing IMO.
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Pop is not a strong perk unless the survivors are making mistakes, like falling after 10 seconds or doing gens in group.
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If you think they’re going to nerf PGTW just because it’s popular and your reasoning is the Ruin nerf then you clearly don’t know the actual reason why ruin was nerfed.
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Because we all know how good new players are at hunting down totems. It’s not like NOED is top tier in the green ranks or anything.
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What happens when you down someone in an area and check the gens around that area, only to find that there's not a ton of progress there? You pretty much resign yourself to using Pop on a gen that didn't really need it because you now have almost no time to check a different area in hopes that there is a better gen to kick.
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