Reworks for the Endgame and Hatch Mechanics

Trwth

For as long as the game has been around, the endgame was hardly ever touched on. Only when we received the Endgame Collapse has it been changed in any way, and we know how that went. Truthfully, it's a nice addition, but it introduced a lot of kinda... strange gameplay elements. By that I mean 99-ing gates and that busted hatch system (and keys, but we'll touch on that later). So, I've come up with some things to spice up the endgame some so that it's a bit more dynamic.

I made a post similar to this one in the past, which got... alright reviews. However, just because these suggestions make the game more difficult on the Survivor's side doesn't mean I'm an entitled Killer main. Whatever side I "main" has nothing to do with this subject, so please be respectful.

Now, moving onto the actual thing, starting with the endgame you're all familiar with: the Exit Gates.

Climax, following the last generator's completion

Hefty title, I know. I'm improvising.

Generators itself are a topic for another post, which is another one I've actually touched on in the past, so if you're interested, it's here.

Alright, so here's the scenario: the last gen pops and the exit gates' bubbles are shown to everyone. The first thing you'll notice that's different is that the exit doors are already open. This is because behind those doors are not the escape, rather a unique tile we'll just call the exit tile.

Exit tiles are just like other tiles, but unlike other tiles, they aren't randomly generated but are generated based on the realm. In other words, the exit area on MacMillan Estate will always be the same on maps such as Shelter Woods or Suffocation Pit, but you won't see that variation on other maps like Autohaven or Lery's.

As for the exit tiles themselves, they're always rather strong loops that you'll want to preserve if you're a Survivor or remove if you're the Killer. Aside from containing some pallets, windows, and possibly a breakable wall or two, they also have two hooks for the convenience of the Killer should they down a Survivor and have potentially have Blood Warden (underrated perk btw).

Now for the actual objective, which is the exit switches. Behind the first door and the exit tile, which is opened by doing all the gens, is another door that can only be opened using those exit switches. Yes, switches is plural.

Unlike in previous version, there are multiple switches connected to one exit gate, and it requires multiple Survivors to open its associated gate. By that I mean one Survivor holding a single lever with produce very, very tiny progress in opening the escape. You'll need at least two Survivors to put any sort of progress on the gate. You can have up to four people on one gate, which opens it at maximum efficiency, rewards co-op action points, and shows that the Killer is lollygagging at that moment.

The numbers aren't official, but they'll be pretty similar to what we have already. Alone, the gate opens unbearably slow, but it still does open, albeit very inefficiently. With two Survivors, it'll open in about, say, 25-30 seconds, with each additional Survivor reducing the time by 5-6 seconds.

The Killer can pressure Survivors off of the switches, which will cause all switch progress to passively regress at a very fast rate.

Once the gate progress has reached 100%, the door opens and the Endgame Collapse begins as normal. At this time, perks like Blood Warden and No One Left Behind will activate. Survivors may then escape through the door.

One-on-One, Killer Closes Hatch

Actually, the scenario isn't that the Killer closes the hatch, because the hatch doesn't work like that anymore. At least, not completely.

First, let's go over how the hatch works.

When going through the game, the hatch will still spawn at its normal times, which is "whenever the number of fully repaired generators exceeds the number of living Survivors by 1." However, instead of just one hatch, THREE hatches will spawn.

All three hatches will look identical to one another and spawn within close proximity of one another. They can all be unlocked with a Key after going through a 7-8 seconds animation of unlocking it, in which you can be grabbed by the Killer. But little do you know, two of those hatches are actually TRAPPED! If you open the wrong hatch, you'll be greeted with a hefty whooping from the Entity themself, which immediately downs you and any unfortunate Survivors in range, as well as revealing your location to the Killer.

If you open the right one with a Key, you won't jump in right away like before. The hatch will remain open for 30 seconds as usual before closing again unless the Killer closes it personally.

Never fear though, as there are ways you can distinguish which hatch is the real one. The first and easiest one is to simply use your ears. If you stand directly on top of the closed hatch and listen, you'll hear very faint sounds. If you hear a muffled version of the hatch's usual sound, then that's the right one. If you hear something reminiscent of the sounds the Entity makes, then it's a trap.

Alternatively, you can use Left Behind, which only reveals the aura of the real escape. Or you can use a Rainbow Map or just a normal Map with the Black Silk Cord add-on.

if the Killer closes a hatch opened by a Key, the Endgame Collapse does not start and the match continues as normal.

In this scenario, the third Survivor is sacrificed and you're on your own now. The first thing you'll notice is that the hatch doesn't open. It spawns, but doesn't open though.

In order to open the hatch, there a hidden switches on each generator that you must interact with. By doing so, the generator's lights turn on and glow red for a few seconds, which may get the Killer's attention, so be careful when doing it. You must do this once for each generator you're missing. So, if your team hasn't done a single generator, then you've gotta repeat that step five times over without getting caught.

If you succeed, the correct hatch will open.

But if the Killer closes the hatch before you get to it, then you're in trouble.

The Endgame Collapse begins, your aura is revealed to the Killer, and the objective on the bottom left of the screen simply says, "RUN." At that point, you run. For as long as they're not in a chase, the Killer and the last Survivor see each other's auras. The Survivor's goal is to survive a chase until there's 30 seconds left on the Endgame timer. Once it hits thirty seconds, all three hatches open as an escape and you gotta scurry to safety or die trying.

If the last Survivor is put into the dying state during this time, they're instantly sacrificed to the Entity on the ground in an epic slow-mo cinematic.

Conclusion

I know this all sounds super complicated when you read it, but in practice I feel like it'll be a real thrill to run. If you have any questions because I explained something weirdly, I'll be sure to answer. Thanks for actually reading if you made it this far.

Trwth

Bump. It’s a lot to read and awkwardly written, I know.

SaltyNooty

Okay, so this is all a big no. I'm not exactly sure why you thought that this was a good idea to try and implement because I wont lie, the idea is nice but far too hard. Its already pressuring when the killer has NOED or something that can down you in a hit like rancor. NGL, this *sounds* like what an entitled killer would suggest just to shift the meta again and make literally everyone play as killer making it so its impossible to get into a match or very rare. The idea is fun but not only is it extremely complex but it's also extremely hard on the survivors.

The three hatches are a bad idea in general, when you run to the hatch, it should be an easy in and out especially if the killer is on your tail. Making it so that the survivor has to *Pay attention and listen* to which hatch is correct makes it even more pressuring, forces the player into the downed state, or let's the killer down the survivor to put them on the hook.

IF the hatch doesnt open when your the last survivor, then that's just dumb. It basically suggests the killer camps the hatch, waits for you to complete the task and then closes it on you negating all your work; with the addition of any exposure status perks. The only way I see that the player escapes is that they use a key which would also tie in with the first one.

The exit tiles suggest tunneling and camping, basically all of this suggests they just camp and make it hell to escape. Teamwork doesn't exist here, especially when you dont know where the hell anyone is without bond or some add-on to the key and even then, the killer can simply sit infront of the switches making it impossible to get out from that side. It also sucks because if the Exit tiles are near each other and are on the same side; you'll never be able to escape. Exposure status perks literally excel in this and not to mention exposure abilities that ghostface, Billy, Cannibal, Shape, and Trapper have. [I know I probably missed one].

This idea wouldn't be okay in the slightest while it would be nice, this basically puts killers at the top of the food chain and suggests a campy gameplay for any and all killers. This would change the Meta ASAP which would basically make all if not a good majority of survivor mains switch to killer.

Trwth

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1517138#Comment_1517138

Yo~ Fancy seeing you here. I'll reply to one paragraph at a time.

Starting off, that's a very disrespectful attitude to begin an argument. I actually did a lot of thinking about this mind you, and I'm not spending whole parts of my day writing this just to be called an entitled Killer main. Now to what you're actually saying, the complexity of my endgame is intentional. You've hit the climax as the Survivors, so naturally escaping should be difficult, NOED or not. And shifting/removing the meta is a good thing. I'm sure a majority of this community is already sick of meta builds from both sides and would want something different for once.

I beg to differ, as I think three hatches would add a sinister twist and strategy to an otherwise dull scenario. If you run to the hatch, it not only makes no sense, but it's also incredibly infuriating for the Killer if the Survivor can jump into the hatch right in front of their face mid-chase, and they lose that Survivor solely because of their item choice. And if you don't wanna sit around and investigate which hatch is the right one, there's plenty of ways to do it easier that I've listed using maps and related perks. If you don't care, you'll be rightfully punished for misusing the key's power.

Heck no. After playing with that mechanic for two and a half years, I've come to realize how utterly dumb it truly is. From hatch stand-offs to Killers simply closing it before the Survivor can even bat an eyelash. Sure, they work, but there's huge room for improvement to both enrich the experience and make it as balanced as it can possibly be. Not saying this version is totally balanced - we'll never know without proper testing - but I think this is the way to do it. If the Killer camps the hatch, then you have plenty of time to do your objective. If they close it, then that's okay, because barring that you're good at running the Killer around, you can try once more in a fight or flight situation that's way more intense and stylish than the current system.

Exit tiles, I'd compare them to the basement. If you wind up hooked on one of those exit hooks, then you're pretty screwed and that's your own fault for not paying attention. However, unlike the basement, those hooks can be broken. Use that. Also remember, this is the endgame. Nobody cares if you did all the gens. You have to get out. That's a whole different task and you're not entitled to an escape just because you did all of the gens. You're also exaggerating the difficulty a bit. There are two exit gates, so if the Killer sets up shop at one, then there's plenty of room for you to do the same at the other. Lastly, if the Killer has NOED, you have no timer to worry about, so you can go break it without worrying much.

I hope you're kidding about the food chain thing. Killers are killers. Their job is to kill. Not the Survivors. It's a 1v4, so naturally the "1" should have as much power as the "4." Camping isn't a good playstyle and everyone knows that if they play Killer often. It's a last stand, and if you're hooked in the endgame at pretty much any point, you should expect to get camped if the Killer isn't confident in their ability to catch anyone else. The point of this post is to change the endgame, not regulate camping. That's a separate issue that we won't be able to solve until we give Killers an incentive not to camp, namely in the endgame.

Also, diversity in the meta is good. I'd rather not see only Decisive Strike and BBQ in all of my games.

OG_JuicyJuice1100

I think adding another tile for the exit gates is a little too much. Especially if there is a strong loop, I think it would be a little difficult for killers as a resource is now accessible to the survivors. The killer has been spending the whole match trying to use up those resources; survivors shouldn't get more resources by finishing all the gens. Plus there's usually some sort of loop or jungle gym by the door already, which I think, is already good enough.

As for your hatch idea, I think it's a little too complicated. Dbd itself is already a complicated game to play well. Simple to learn, difficult to master.

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I do think the hatch does need a rework though.

I think if the hatch wasn't instant with a key it would be much better and balanced. If instead the hatch takes 20-30 seconds to open but can be opened quicker depending on what key you had (this includes the broken key making it not useless). When the hatch is being opened via key it makes a notification for the killer. There can also be skill checks while opening the lock, similar to the madness skill checks where it doesn't progress the hatch opening faster but is still a check to prevent noise like popping a gen or screaming.

If the killer closes the hatch on the final survivor, the final survivor can still open the hatch without a key. It will still take 20-30 seconds, except no skill checks and it will constantly make a notification for the killer as you would be breaking the lock for the hatch.

I think making the above changes would help nerf the keys, but also allow for creative mind games. Example, you can use the key to fake going for the hatch, which forces the killer to make a check at the hatch. But this also makes it so the killer will know where the hatch is if it's being opened. You can even treat the hatch as a generator so that perks such as red herring can be used with it. Or you can use diversion to make a notification by the hatch.

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Of course we can't make a change to keys without making a change to moris. And I think your suggestion on moris on your previous post is a great solution.

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I do like your idea of making the end game more interesting and trying to make less used perks more useful, but I think the changes you suggest would be too much of a drastic and take away from the core mechanics of the game.

SaltyNooty

Coming back to this once again, it's still a bad idea. It's a well thought out process, still complex and hard.

Hatches are fine, the point of the key is to BREAK black locks. The entity wouldn't give us it if it was that broken. I don't see the problem with it. I really don't. The point of the hatch is to work as a separate means to escape, not so that the killer is constantly on your tail and knows your every move. You're suggesting that the killer FINDS OUT where the hatch is mind you, they can cross a map in less than thirty seconds and especially with the crutch; NOED, Or PWYF. I can see why some killers would be upset if they were about to down the last survivor and they got away via hatch but that's the point of the damn thing, no sense in nerfing what's not a probl- oh, wait, SWF.

I can understand when all 4 survivors get away with a hatch and Key before the generators are done. (Mind you, the Hatch `ALWAYS` spawns when there's 1 gen left and or they're only 2 survivors.) So yes, I can feel people being vexed about that but that's the only thing. Nothing we can do about that, people are going to play together and make plans to win; that's a strategy. That strategy won't always work out well and that's something you can improvise on.

About the exit tiles. Again, 30 seconds is NOT going to cut it even when your doing it with others. If they can pressure you off the switch and it **REGRESSES** without you being on it, it's too easy for the killer; especially when bubba, Billy, Clown, ghostface, Myers or nightmare pull up. That's terrifying and boring for other players. Killer's can book it around the map in less than 30 seconds as i said before, making it so that they can intercept you before it's done just won't work, too easy for them; too hard for us.

You seem to want to make things dramatic in a horror 4v1 game. Pretty sure that's what a Mori is for, as annoying as it is. Great concept, good thought; bad idea when you're thinking about it. Epic slow-mo? Really? 3 hatches is an auto no and I believe I already debunked why. I'm not gonna side with adding three because the killer doesn't get anny penalty for closing the wrong one if not he see the right one and goes for it. Aforementioned, i've already debunked why 3 hatches is a bad idea; it's meant to be a simple in and out, not a dramatic; run away, do this 1 - 5 times, get to the exit (failure), run away! (Run to the hatch and fail because bloodlust is a thing :/) we aren't movie stars, try to be a little more realistic when it comes to that.

Again, exposure perks and add-on's make everything worse for the survivors and many of those idea's suggest taking your time opposed to if everything you do will alert the killer like the switches on the gen or trying to open the hatch.

DBD isn't perfect and these idea's will unbalance it to an unnatural degree. To my view, this is "fine" as is, minus the rest of the stuff.